[sunilch]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

This is the bit of your post that I don't agree with. Tests that are accepted as being "phase 3" (don't ask me to define that! But I think it relates to a large enough double-blind test to be able to predict efficacy) have been done on other vaccines. Correct me if wrong: the ones that are waving percentage flags have done phase three: it is what is not known for the ones that are not because they have not.

True but not true

These Phase 3 trials have had limited set of 'Type' of audiences

I believe only after Phase 4 trials will be the right ones to rely on.

Also, currently the subjects/participants group does not include children and infants I believe.

A lot of special/fast approvals were given for these trails that otherwise would have taken more time.

[srishiva]

Serum institute was talking about 100s of million doses before. Not sure why the output is so low. Hope cavaxin data is better when they release it. The fact that you can't choose the vaccine the between 2 is not good.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by srishiva

The fact that you can't choose the vaccine the between 2 is not good.

This is not a bad thing since you are getting it for free (as an essential worker). What is bad is this:

Those getting CoVaxin will need to sign an informed consent before getting the shots. Not aware of the contents of it but I guess it may include some sort of indemnity on any side effects/complications. Nothing of this sort is required to be signed if you are getting Covidshield.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/80295165.cms

I am confident that when the vaccine is open to public, you will have all the options that you may want. Include the right to not to get vaccinated, if you wish. Meaning we will not be forced to have it - directly or indirectly.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by sunilch

This is not a bad thing since you are getting it for free (as an essential worker). What is bad is this:

Those getting CoVaxin will need to sign an informed consent before getting the shots. Not aware of the contents of it but I guess it may include some sort of indemnity on any side effects/complications. Nothing of this sort is required to be signed if you are getting Covidshield.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/80295165.cms

.

It is not free technically as we the tax payers are funding vaccination.

P.S: I got a call for vaccination from my hospital today, however since I was out of town couldn't get vaccinated. I have decided to wait for Covishield for now as I don't want to be a guinea pig for world famous Covaxin for time being.which is the only option available for us in central government hospitals.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

It is your decision that the new strain in UK is "overyped." I suggest that you have no evidence for that at all, except for wishful thinking.

I wish the same thing! But every such development presents a possible danger. Getting complacent now is just dangerous to self and others.

There is still a lot that is not understood about this wretched virus

When an army is winning a battle, do they relax? No. Let us not relax either.

It's not my decision to call covid overhyped, it's common sense. How many deaths has the mutant strain caused in India, ever since it's been detected here in multiple states a month ago?
Forget the mutant virus... With most people crowding everywhere and a majority without masks, where's the expected spurt in new cases? I bet no one's washing hands as religiously as well. Plus merrily spitting everywhere in public places. The organised beggar gangs are back at traffic signals, touching everything! Has anything happened to anyone since?
Finally, my own observation of multiple hospitals I have been associated with - ALL have witnessed A STEEP decline in covid admissions, testing, and even enquiries - since Oct 2020. Even govt hospitals and jumbo facilities catering to covid are less than 25% occupied.
And just about everything is understood about this virus, as is understood about any influenza virus... Yes, they all mutate and cause outbreaks, but in different scales. The media has fed the common people too much garbage.
Lastly, about winning the battle - did any influenza vaccine eliminate/eradicate influenza from the general population? There's no winning unless you find a way to breathe your "own air" and not the air "we" breathe! So, relax, and breathe!

[civic-sense]

Looks like there is a lack of trust among the medical community regarding the safety of covaxin.

Coronavirus: We prefer Covishield vaccine over Covaxin, say doctors at Delhi's RML Hospital

Resident doctors of Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital on Saturday demanded that they be given the Covishield vaccine instead of Covaxin as the former has completed its Phase 3 trials. Covaxin, developed by Bharat Biotech, is yet to complete its last stage trials.

The doctors also said that they would not participate in the vaccination process if they are administered the Bharat Biotech vaccine. The Serum Institute is the local maker of the other vaccine, Covishield, developed by Oxford University and pharmaceuticals company AstraZeneca.

https://scroll.in/latest/984204/coro...s-rml-hospital

[Gansan]

TN received 536500 doses of Covidshield vaccine and 20000 doses of Covaxin according to a news report. Dr.Pratap Reddy (83), Chairman of Apollo Hospitals group, received his jab at the vaccine clinic of Apollo main hospital in Chennai. It was not revealed what vaccine he took.

Indian Express reported Doctors at the Rajiv Gandhi General Hospital in Chennai preferrred Covaxin over Covid Shield.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/cit...EwGgxsud5IM-5w

[fhdowntheline]

First of all I do not understand WHY is the Central Government owning up the process of procuring and administering vaccine? Why cant it be left to the states to do the same, albeit with Central monitoring and regulation ? They should have let Covaxin complete all the necessary trials before getting it out in public. What is this constant urge to show off"Indigenous efforts ?" If they want bouquets, they should expect brickbats as well.

If anything goes wrong, most of the states (especially from other parties) will put their hands up and blame central leadership. The need of the hour is to delegate responsibility and make states accountable.

[mvadg]

Thank God we've moved on to discussing vaccines! I don't know if there have been any studies on the efficacy of a combination of various vaccines - a cocktail of all vaccines.

On a different note, I was wondering if statisticians could tell us if the deaths due to Covid-19 could be distinguished from the normal deaths. Would they be able to show the Covid-19 fatalities above the noise?

[proton]

Originally Posted by mvadg

On a different note, I was wondering if statisticians could tell us if the deaths due to Covid-19 could be distinguished from the normal deaths. Would they be able to show the Covid-19 fatalities above the noise?

Covid mortality is reported as any death in those who had Covid in previous 15 days.

This is the system worldwide. Also taught in India, but rules bent. If reporting reveals Govt incompetency, more deaths reported as morbidity related. If reporting as Covid-19 is compensated by Centre, then hospitals pad the Covid figures!

[Thad E Ginathom]

The way that Covaxin is being presented and received is a pr disaster. It may well turn a lot of people against being vaccinated at all. If India was currently in the same covid emergency as USA or even UK, then perhaps this pre-phase-3 release might be justified, but it isn't.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

The way that Covaxin is being presented and received is a pr disaster. It may well turn a lot of people against being vaccinated at all. If India was currently in the same covid emergency as USA or even UK, then perhaps this pre-phase-3 release might be justified, but it isn't.

It is the fault of the central leadership in pushing their Atmanirbhar agenda, and first announcing free vaccine as a sop during the Bihar polls. Everyone then latched on to the issue. They could have still let it come through in the open market , and let people behaviour take natural course. But no, they just want to plant their “ See ? We did it” symbolism everywhere. Now they must be ready for repercussions.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

With most people crowding everywhere and a majority without masks, where's the expected spurt in new cases?

Here in Goa, I was expecting a massive surge in cases post New Year. I was away from the state to avoid the madness, but we all saw the pics in the news of the kind of crowds that came, mingled happily, and left. All our acquaintances here confirmed that the crowds on the beaches were insane and there were absolutely no restrictions.

So it's been 18 days, surely any cases would start showing up by now? I'm not saying we should take coronavirus lightly, certainly not, but even if we say that cases are being suppressed or hidden or whatever, testing still remains high and yet cases remain low. Certainly something else is at play here. Hesitant to say 'herd immunity', but what else explains this?

[WindRide]

wonder how well this piece of advice is received by public...

Do not consume alcohol for 45 days after vaccination: Experts

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le33589715.ece

[PearlJam]

3 months after the first UK strain of the virus was reported (in the UK, obviously), the first case in India was reported on December 29.

First of all, how can there be such a huge time lag of 3 months? There were flights going in and out of UK, and we suspended "direct" flights much later on. There were flights still coming in from other countries, with people who have already been to the UK. It's next to impossible to screen where people had been prior to landing.

This strain is supposedly 70% more transmissible. Again, I fail to understand how they can come up with a number so soon, just like that, akin to a snap of their fingers (study of spread is a complex matter in itself, is what I read).

So, within a week, that new strain's tally crossed 50, and then crossed 100 in the following week. The tally now stands at unbelievably low 116. The Government now says "No new UK Coronavirus strain reported in the past 24 hours"!! Looks like it stopped spreading, just like that. Can you believe it?

Given all the above, it's extremely likely that the new UK strain has already been circulating in India, and the count of those should logically be 100s of times more. I think we just stopped caring, that's all. It's just that the UK is so good in genome sequencing, that we have come to know of it's existence. Otherwise, it would have gone undetected. Anyway, we all know that viruses mutate all the time. Some expert said that there are roughly 2 mutations a month.

In the meantime, our active cases have kept falling continuously, even after accounting for the so called "highly transmissible" UK strain. Taking into account the new year revelries, the case count should have exploded by now, theoretically.

Coming to vaccinations, I really wonder how they can justify a mass push now, under these circumstances. When the case count was high, they were saying "We need vaccinations, right now!". Now with case counts continuously falling, they're saying the same thing "We need vaccinations, right now!".

And now, they are saying that the South African strain is concerning.

Blah!