[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm not very sympathetic.

Given all that... there is a certain amount of risk that each of us must decide is ok for us.

.

Nobody is seeking sympathy. Just stating a fact. Senior citizens are getting depressed and frustrated.

It is precisely that decision making about taking risk which is out of their hands now. It is in the hands of their next generation.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Plenty of people are depressed and frustrated. My basic reply still stands: live with it.

Of course, that doesn't mean we can't moan about it

[am1m]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

"Patients infected with B.1.1.7 also had higher viral loads. While this is certainly concerning, and warrants urgent scientific investigation, data supporting that this variant alone is driving the associated increase in cases is preliminary and inconclusive."

"The B.1.1.7 variant has been reported in other European countries, as well as in Australia. These policies appear to be based more on the fear of variants with unknown properties rather than the actual data, and are due to a persistent and fundamental misunderstanding of viruses and how they evolve and change when spreading through a population."

"Genetic mutation, the process that drives all evolutionary adaptation, is normal and expected, particularly for viruses."

"Mutations do not automatically make a virus a more exceptional pathogen."

"In the case of B.1.1.7, there is fortunately no indication that the 23 mutations distinguishing the variant result in more severe Covid-19."

"The claim that B.1.1.7 is more transmissible is based on primarily epidemiological evidence and data on increased viral loads, and is compelling but far from decisive. To demonstrate conclusively that B.1.1.7 is more transmissible, that needs to be quantified experimentally in animal models of Sars-CoV-2 transmission. Even if B.1.1.7 does prove to be more transmissible, it is not likely to be transmitted in a different way from all the other circulating Sars-CoV-2 variants. It has not acquired viral superpowers that render existing precautions irrelevant, and it is still transmitted primarily through inhaling or having direct contact with infectious respiratory aerosols and droplets."

"The UK is a global leader in genomic surveillance, the practice of sequencing the genomes of the viruses causing new cases. B.1.1.7 is likely to be circulating in other countries already, and simply hasn’t been detected yet because of already high Sars-CoV-2 prevalence and less comprehensive genomic surveillance. Draconian measures can encourage panic and make the situation worse. When the lockdown and domestic travel restrictions were announced in the UK, passengers packed train station platforms and crowded carriages to leave London prior to enforcement of tier 4 restrictions, creating conditions conducive to virus spread."

"To truly contain the pandemic, leaders and policymakers should calmly educate and engage the public, rather than risking panic through scrambled, incoherent measures."
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We really need more articles on this epidemic written by virologists, doctors and scientists. (Instead of giving headline space to the half-baked ramblings of politicians, celebrities, data scientists and other people not really qualified to speak about this.)

[srishiva]

Read this news about a elderly couple in US. They never went outside and during holidays the lady wanted to get a haircut from her daughter who works in salon. The daughter had gotten tested and was negative. The lady came out to Son's house where she had a haircut near open windows.

She got infected with Covid after daughter also experienced symptoms. The elderly gentleman also got infected and both passed away. Really sad that infection happened for going out once even after people around were tested and negative at the moment.

Now with new strains, it will really challenge the world. Not sure even if vaccines need to be updated with newer strains like they do with flu vaccine. Doesnt look like we can expect an end even in a year !

[dragonfire]

I see that two vaccines - covishield and covaxin - have been approved for India, and the vaccination drive will be happening soon. What has been worrying me is that covaxin seems to be a little short on test results regarding its efficacy and safety. I have a feeling that they are rushing it through just to show off that India has a vaccine too.

But then I wonder whether, when the vaccination drive starts, we'd be allowed to choose which one we want to get. Or if not, who will decide who will get which vaccine?

And, will private hospitals be allowed to administer other vaccines (like the Pfizer one) for their patients? Or would the govt have a say on what the private hospitals can administer?

[am1m]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

But then I wonder whether, when the vaccination drive starts, we'd be allowed to choose which one we want to get. Or if not, who will decide who will get which vaccine?

And, will private hospitals be allowed to administer other vaccines (like the Pfizer one) for their patients? Or would the govt have a say on what the private hospitals can administer?

I think by the time there are enough doses to go around for people like us (non front-line healthcare workers, not elderly, or not particularly/statistically at a higher mortality risk from covid), there will be enough data and reports to make an informed decision. Also am pretty sure that by that time those of us who can afford to will be able to make a choice and pay for the type of vaccine we want. Will take a while yet.

(Of course since the majority of our politicians (govt and opposition) fall in the elderly/vulnerable class and since they are obviously such VVIPs and should be protected first, I do hope they let us know exactly which vaccine they are taking.)

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

And, will private hospitals be allowed to administer other vaccines (like the Pfizer one) for their patients? Or would the govt have a say on what the private hospitals can administer?

The Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored at -70degrees. I am not sure if will be available here in India that easily as storage/transportation is a huge problem.

For the home grown vaccines there is a restricted emergency approval. So my understanding is, if we start seeing next wave here and things look like getting out of control (which is not the case today) then using these vaccines is an option even without third phase data, as focus will be on saving lives whatever way possible. This is a risk mitigation step for future. I think with this step govt is indicating that there will not be lockdown anymore.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

And, will private hospitals be allowed to administer other vaccines (like the Pfizer one) for their patients? Or would the govt have a say on what the private hospitals can administer?

read some media snippet in which a Chennai-private-hospital guy said, paraphrased, "We'd be delighted to be involved in vaccination, but have to have government permission."

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

If i may ask, how would one define a situation like a traffic jam or a traffic signal for someone riding a two wheeler. You are stuck with scores of people. We do not know how the propagation would differ between a windy day or a tropical climate.

I was in similar situation in Coimbatore city and was surprised that less than 1% of the people i saw were wearing masks. In my hometown of Palakkad, i am not sure what the situation is in the town, but from the vantage point of my house which is next to the highway, i see barely 1% without the mask.
Am i wrong in believing that these close proximities are also dangerous. What is the likelihood that i could have encountered asymptomatic carriers in these traffic signals.

In open air, the risk is negligible. The overall volume of air is so high that any virus particles get quickly diluted. Think of introducing one drop of orange juice in a tea spoon. You would notice a change in colour. Now try that in a glass of water. You would barely notice it. Now try with a bucket then a bath tub and later a lake and then a river followed by the ocean. In the ocean, even dropping a full bucket of orange juice would not change the colour as the volume of the water is so large. Same is the case with outside air. In a small room or vehicle, the infected person's breathing keeps increasing the viral load with time. In open air, it keeps dispersing. in addition, people don't spend too long at traffic lights and are not facing each other at very close distances.

Originally Posted by PearlJam

If it was so strict a condition required for spreading, why do you think the sero surveys are pointing to a more than 45% number? And this is across multiple states, including those that are predominantly rural. In many of the villages in Karnataka, 44% are reported to have antibodies, again as per sero surveys. Across the world, which have very low population densities, around 6 to 7 lakh new cases are reported *every single day*. I personally know some people who have got it (with minor symptoms) inspite of all precautions, and they don't even have a clue how they caught it. So I don't agree with you that spreading is difficult.
.

Such strict condition, as you phrased it, is required. Most infections, over 90% of them, take place at home where people spend long time together in closed spaces. Here is one study from South Korea:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN24M1NK

Here is another report from Germany:
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-st...ted/a-54659651

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

In the ocean, even dropping a full bucket of orange juice would not change the colour as the volume of the water is so large. Same is the case with outside air.

But... If you happen to be swimming, and I dump the bucketful of orange juice close to you, you may get a mouthful of colour and taste. Now apply that to someone coughing in your direction on the street.

Yes, the open air is relatively safer, but if it is open air with lots of people in it, it is still not safe.

The person coughing in a closed room may infect several people; the person coughing on the street might infect only you. But it is you that you are going to be most concerned about.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Most infections, over 90% of them, take place at home where people spend long time together in closed spaces.

And because all of us have our blind spots. I've seen it repeatedly from the beginning of this mess in March, people will avoid situations they don't want to be in the first place, citing 'covid risk' (and condemn/enforce that behavior in others, even citing studies that back that up!) but will obliviously indulge in behavior that carries equal if not greater risk of catching/spreading the virus simply because they want to do it/it's important to them!

I've already given the example of relatives who were absolutely against us going on drives/runs in the open...while happily organizing family/religious functions indoors and expecting us to turn up in a crowd!

I have a friend who is still scrubbing surfaces and won't eat outside food...but happily goes to the gym! Another colleague is keeping his parents indoors all the time, not even letting them go for a walk in the park...but is happily taking a train journey next week...and will then return to visit his parents at home! Personally, I caught myself asking my wife if it was a good idea to go see her friends, as they were planning to meet at a restaurant (in the open)...while forgetting that I had happily met my friends in the open a week ago!

We really need to stop telling others what to do (unless we're doctors, of course!) and just be more mindful of our own blind spots and behaviors.

[Nalin1]

Orange juice, oceans, traffic signals, swimming !.

Just wear masks and maintain hand hygiene as much as possible.

I don't think this virus spreads as rapidly from humans to humans as it is made out to be.

1. Most likely. It is airborne and can infect people wherever you are (indoors or outdoors).
2. Less likely. Infection from others (cough, cold, sneeze, talking in close proximity).
3. Least likely. Infection from surfaces touched by infected people.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Orange juice, oceans, traffic signals, swimming !.

Just wear masks and maintain hand hygiene as much as possible.

I don't think this virus spreads as rapidly from humans to humans as it is made out to be.

I think it maybe does, hence the high infection rate. but

1. Most likely. It is airborne and can infect people wherever you are (indoors or outdoors).

That is an alternative theory. Or maybe it is as well. And I do think that indoors/outdoors makes a difference, as long as people keep some distance.

2. Less likely. Infection from others (cough, cold, sneeze, talking in close proximity).

On this one, I'll be bold enough to say that you are wrong. Coughs and sneezes are long-well-know methods of disease transmission, and covid, being respiratory, is probably no different. Research has been done, is being done. You must have seen the slow-motion droplet videos, and stuff like that.

3. Least likely. Infection from surfaces touched by infected people.

I think the scientific jury is still out on this one. Am I right in saying that common touch, eg of handrails, is another well-known vector for some diseases. However, in the context of sterilising all our packages and stuff, last thing I heard was that in real life the virus is unlikely to live as long as some lab tests suggest.

All of these are views that can change any time. Hopefully because science, and we, get made more aware. In the meantime, let's take as much precautions as we can!

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Or would the govt have a say on what the private hospitals can administer?

I think private hospitals will be allowed to administer, sooner than later. (There is a vaccine clinic in the Apollo Hospitals in Chennai, which is my preferred place for any vaccination).

And since it will be on payment basis, I feel the hospitals will source the vaccines with highest efficacy. I personally would like to pay for the one with 95% success rate rather than get a free one with 55%+ efficacy.

[alpha1]

Hey any idea about the coverage/non-coverage by medical insurance incase of side effects from these hurriedly passed vaccines?