[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^ The first and second shots together will count as one vaccination. A single shot does not count. 600 million doses means 600 million people.

As noted some of the vaccines need two dosis. Notably the Moderna-Pfizer one.

So there you actually do need two shots (dosis) to get one vaccination. The way it is discussed in the western press is really along the line of 600 million doses gets you 300 million people vaccinated.

So for instance in the Netherlands; here a link to the official Dutch government webpage where you can see that we are acquiring Mio 50,9 doses and that gets us Mio 29,3 vaccinated! So a mix of the two shot and one shot vaccines.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel...-in-volle-gang

Jeroen

[PearlJam]

https://www.news18.com/news/india/va...y-3187523.html

With active cases continuously falling in India, it looks like many people are questioning why the vaccine is really needed, and whether the risk-benefit ratio is worth it.

So called 'experts' had confidently predicted a surge post Diwali, post this-and-that surge, etc, but nothing like that happened (so far), inspite of people recklessly flouting masks and social distancing norms. Now they're saying "we're surprised, we don't understand why"! Really?!

Wonder what the vested interests will do now. Try to create another wave of panic in some way? Say that farmers protests will be the next massive cause? Possible. Let's wait and see.

[Gansan]

^^ Numbers have not spiked, but IIT Madras was identified as a Covid cluster recently after 180+ tested positive. Affected include students of two particular hostels and mess employees. Fortunately because it is a campus, it has been totally isolated and contact tracing is on. All the affected are being treated in King Institute.

The risk remains, but people are getting complacent in recent times.

[PearlJam]

194 tested positive. Most are asymptomatic from what I read. So what's your point? That they will spread it even more? Definitely possible, but that's just one more drop in the vast ocean, representative of our country. And contact tracing? We are way way beyond that point now. I don't think it's even happening with any real seriousness on ground. People have already commented in various posts above, on how nobody seems to be following any safety norms *across the country*. So why are we even bothered about 194?

I keep coming back to this: Any wild guesses of actual number of times of real infected, compared to official figures?

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

194 tested positive. Most are asymptomatic from what I read. So what's your point? That they will spread it even more? Definitely possible, but that's just one more drop in the vast ocean, representative of our country. And contact tracing? We are way way beyond that point now. I don't think it's even happening with any real seriousness on ground. People have already commented in various posts above, on how nobody seems to be following any safety norms *across the country*. So why are we even bothered about 194?

I keep coming back to this: Any wild guesses of actual number of times of real infected, compared to official figures?

The asymptomatic spreading is one issue. Tomorrow after vaccination, there is a similar issue. Will the vaccinated also spread ? If you look at flu vaccines, they still exhibit symptoms and can still spread. So wearing masks even after vaccinated until everyone gets vaccinated or gets exposed and develops immunity might still be a requirement. Guess we need to wait for those reports after some time since vaccination has started.

[RSR]

She's young, she's fit, she appears perfectly healthy and she's a critical healthcare worker - a nurse in a COVID-19 ward.

Poor girl! Look at what happens to her after she was one of the first to be given a vaccine in Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA:



My genuinely friendly & sincere (albeit unsolicited) advice to all those early birds looking to get the worm before anyone else: Please exercise due diligence before you line up to get a shot (whichever rushed vaccine it happens to be) - because if you happen to experience any adverse reaction afterwards, don't tell me you weren't warned beforehand!

Good luck, stay safe!

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by RSR

She's young, she's fit, she's perfectly healthy and she's a critical healthcare worker - a nurse in a COVID-19 ward.

Poor girl! Look at what happens to her after she was one of the first to be given a vaccine in Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA:

Just one thing: the nurse says she's had such fainting episodes previously as well triggered due to certain elements that cause pain: https://www.google.com/amp/s/zeenews...31825.html/amp

My cousin had got a recent flu vaccine post which he fainted just 30mins after that and had mild to high fever for the next 12hours. Mind you, it was just a simple vaccine for flu. Considering that vaccines in general may cause mild fever and related side effects (and these are bound to happen considering how vaccines work), it's hardly surprising that someone with such history of fainting would, at the end, faint (could be a psychological reaction to the jab/pain).

Having said that, i do agree with the premise of your post: people who are more than willing to get a shot would have to make an informed decision irrespective of how limited the information availability is.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Having said that, i do agree with the premise of your post: people who are more than willing to get a shot would have to make an informed decision irrespective of how limited the information availability is.

The above-mentioned part is exactly what I want to convey!

We are all adults, we need to take responsibility for our own selves & our actions! We cannot and should not be blindly led into doing something just because the mainstream media tells us it'll be great for us.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The way it is discussed in the western press is really along the line of 600 million doses gets you 300 million people vaccinated.

The news report clearly mentioned the Government of India plans to vaccinate half the population to trigger herd immunity and would contract for so many doses.

I think for India a single shot vaccine would be best, otherwise it would be too difficult to keep track and make sure everyone in the free vaccine group takes both the shots. Those who pay and get vaccinated at vaccine clinics will ensure they take both though.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Gansan

The news report clearly mentioned the Government of India plans to vaccinate half the population to trigger herd immunity and would contract for so many doses.
.

One of the real concern is how many vaccins countries such as India will actually get and how quickly. The sad truth is that the rich in this world will be getting the vaccin earlier. The Western world has contracted way more vaccins that they are likely to be needing.

Most of the Western, rich, prosperous countries have purchased up 2,5 - 3 times the number of vaccin dose they require based on population size. India has not even bought a vaccin for everybody.

Have a look and weep:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/tra...und-the-world/

Jeroen

[Gansan]

^^ A lot of those vaccines will be produced in India. The Oxford vaccine is already being produced here, and even a lot of trial doses for the EU have gone from here (Serum Institute of India). Some more vaccines will be produced here under tie-ups. India has a very large, cost effective pharma manufacturing capacity and no vaccine maker can produce those numbers they have contracted to sell without Indian collaboration. There are also a couple of Indian vaccines under stage III testing and if they are approved, the entire production will be for local use. So I think India will get the vaccines sooner than later. Also India has pledged to provide vaccines to low income countries at low cost.

Let us see how it plays out.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Having said that, i do agree with the premise of your post: people who are more than willing to get a shot would have to make an informed decision irrespective of how limited the information availability is.

Originally Posted by RSR

The above-mentioned part is exactly what I want to convey!

We are all adults, we need to take responsibility for our own selves & our actions! We cannot and should not be blindly led into doing something just because the mainstream media tells us it'll be great for us.

What are we supposed to do? A few degrees in biology, medicine, immunology? There is no way we can take an informed decision on this vaccination, because that is what it would take.

Sure, we should be aware of the information available to us, but in the end we are left guessing our way between the naysayers and wild optimists, not to mention the very real covid deniers.

Some sort of decision has to be made. Yes, it is not the sort of thing that makes me want to be an "early adopter." On the other hand, it has been said that the vaccine-doubtful will be more of a problem to the immunity score than the out and out antivaxxers.

I'll probably get it. Big IF and WHEN. Hey, what's the worst that can happen? A disease of biblical proportions followed by... a vaccine with side effects so bad it also achieves mythical status. We're all going to die.

I'm joking. Maybe.

Originally Posted by Gansan

The news report clearly mentioned the Government of India plans to vaccinate half the population to trigger herd immunity and would contract for so many doses.

What sense is there in 50% being herd immunity?

So, in a room full of a hundred people, there are fifty who are capable of transmitting and/or catching the disease. That doesn't sound much better than now.

Herd immunity is when the incidence of the disease becomes negligible. Not when some theoretical statistic of had-or-been-vaccinated is reached.

Count me among the pessimists on this one. Life is not a screenshow of little balls driven by a mathematical model. We need the vaccine. More than that, we need the result. And it hasn't happened until it has happened.

But hey, I'm optimistic in that I have hope that vaccine is going to help do the trick. And we're not all going to die. Yet.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

What sense is there in 50% being herd immunity?

Expert opinion says when sero positivity level reaches or exceeds fifty percent of the population, herd immunity will be reached. From then on the infection will go in to decline. This can be achieved either when a) half or more of the population is naturally infected, or b) half the population is vaccinated. Doctors in the forum can comment on this.

Various random sero surveys indicate already the sero prevalence in India as 40%+. So this figure added to 600 million vaccinations will be sufficient to turn the tide in India.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^ A lot of those vaccines will be produced in India. The Oxford vaccine is already being produced here, and even a lot of trial doses for the EU have gone from here (Serum Institute of India). Some more vaccines will be produced here under tie-ups. India has a very large, cost effective pharma manufacturing capacity and no vaccine maker can produce those numbers they have contracted to sell without Indian collaboration.

There are currently already more then ten countries that are vaccinating their population. In the next fortnight that will more than double. As far as I can tell, all wealthy western nations. When will India start?

Jeroen

Originally Posted by RSR

She's young, she's fit, she appears perfectly healthy and she's a critical healthcare worker - a nurse in a COVID-19 ward.

Poor girl! Look at what happens to her after she was one of the first to be given a vaccine in Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA:

Google it and you will find plenty of references. I would say context, context, context:

Missing context. Nurse manager Tiffany Dover did pass out after receiving her vaccine, but she explained to reporters afterward that she has a condition that sometimes causes her to faint when she feels pain. The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says it has received reports of people fainting after nearly all vaccines, and scientists believe it is due to pain or anxiety associated with the vaccination process

https://apnews.com/article/fact-chec...ent:9817674811

Finally some positive news:

[Gansan]

@ Jeroen

As soon as stage 3 trials on Indian volunteers in India end and the vaccines are approved by relevant body. They can't be given based on FDA or European approvals alone.

Actually the chief of Thyrocare India says sero positivity in India is already at 45% and may touch 55% by May'21, at which stage there may not even be many takers for vaccines.