[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by vivek95

It's official now. Remdesivir finally gets US-FDA approval as the first and only drug to be used in the treatment of Covid-19 patients. The approval is backed up the results of three Randomised controlled trials -
1. NIAID USA ACTT-3 phase 3 trial
2. SIMPLE-Severe trial
3. SIMPLE-Moderate trial

Anyways, Remdesivir it is now !!

Source of info - Its all over the internet

A couple of days ago, my reply to this post citing lack of evidence for Remdesivir having significant impact on covid 19 survival was deleted by the moderators (I don't know what medical background they have), just on the premise of the information being copied from a news based article. Moderators, please be informed that there are hundreds of fake news aggregators, but dismissing everyone on that ground is illogical. Secondly, I am only presenting the medical aspects of the issue as a doctor myself and how they have been conveniently twisted by those who stand to gain from the same. If you want to hear it from the horse's mouth itself, visit the WHO links or also this publication in the BMJ.

Whether to believe a robust trial with data inputs from several countries all over the world or certain pharma supported selective trials with adjusted goalposts is upto the cognitive abilities of the well informed reader. Individual experiences (of doctors and patients) may differ, but that is not how drug trials work.

The BMJ: Covid-19: Remdesivir has little or no impact on survival, WHO trial shows.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4057

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

A couple of days ago, my reply to this post citing lack of evidence for Remdesivir having significant impact on covid 19 survival was deleted by the moderators (I don't know what medical background they have), just on the premise of the information being copied from a news based article. Moderators, please be informed that there are hundreds of fake news aggregators, but dismissing everyone on that ground is illogical. Secondly, I am only presenting the medical aspects of the issue as a doctor myself and how they have been conveniently twisted by those who stand to gain from the same. If you want to hear it from the horse's mouth itself, visit the WHO links or also this publication in the BMJ.

Whether to believe a robust trial with data inputs from several countries all over the world or certain pharma supported selective trials with adjusted goalposts is upto the cognitive abilities of the well informed reader. Individual experiences (of doctors and patients) may differ, but that is not how drug trials work.

The BMJ: Covid-19: Remdesivir has little or no impact on survival, WHO trial shows.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4057

Hello Doc

I completely agree with you on the small scale trials backing up the approval of Remdesivir. No doubt, you have been sharing high quality posts since long time and your reply to my last one was spot on. I did read that yesterday and "thanked" it too. Thought of replying today but cannot see it now. My individual experience has been a mixed bag too, however it isn't of much significance compared to a large scale systematic ramdomised controlled trial conducted at 400 hospitals in 30 countries. My intention was to only share a latest update on the US-FDA approved drug, being fully aware that the three trials I have listed are nowhere as big as SOLIDARITY. I better had mentioned the sample size comparison, my apologies. Thanks for your perspective and I agree with everything.

[am1m]

https://www.wired.com/story/its-time...ial-type=owned

It’s Time to Talk About Covid-19 and Surfaces Again

"But in the hazy panic of the time, many people had already taken up fastidious habits: quarantining packages at the door, bleaching boxes of cereal brought back from the store, wearing hospital booties outdoors."

"Worrying about the small stuff exhausts people from focusing on things that do matter. There are all sorts of ways to imagine what might go wrong. Maybe a person feels so confident in the disinfection methods around them that they eat indoors without a mask, despite the much more substantial known risks."

"Low risk is not, of course, no risk, she adds. There are high-touch objects that merit disinfection, and places like hospitals need clean rooms and furniture. People at high risk from Covid-19 may want to take extra precautions. But the best advice for breaking that object-to-nose chain, according to all the health experts I spoke with: Wash your hands."

"“I think that one thing that has been tough about this pandemic is there has been such a strong initial message that gave people the wrong intuition,”"

"“There are bizarre policies that haven’t changed or adapted,” says Julia Marcus, an epidemiologist at Harvard Medical School."

"But behaviors are hard to shift, especially when the decision is made by committee. The tendency, in the absence of firm guidance to do otherwise, is to cater to the most cautious."
----------------------------------------------------

(Just out of curiosity, anyone who bought UV lights back in March/April, are you guys still using them conscientiously to 'disinfect' groceries? )

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by am1m

(Just out of curiosity, anyone who bought UV lights back in March/April, are you guys still using them conscientiously to 'disinfect' groceries? )

I don't know who spread this fake news about surface contamination as the main mechanism by which Covid spreads, back in March/April. Was it WHO or CDC or Dr. Fauci ?

Anyway , Subsequent studies clarified that the main way COVID-19 spreads is through respiratory droplets exchanged during person to person contact.

I still remember some people disinfecting vegetables and fruits and grocery with alcohol based surface disinfectants and UV, and the local authorities "sanitizing" the streets of apartment complexes with Hypochlorite sprays using Fire extinguishers and tractors. What a waste of resources !

[Nalin1]

Don't be surprised if you hear this sometime in the future "after extensive studies and research, we could not conclusively prove that the virus actually spreads from human to human!. Or even if it does, the chances are so minimal. Back to wearing masks and washing hands after a lull".

[PearlJam]

Thanks for your viewpoints, vivek95 and Zen2001. Just goes on to show how the so called drug trials work. They touted plasma therapy, then rejected it. There are so many instances of flip flops.

Under the garb of throwing around terms like 'peer review', 'randomized controlled studies', etc, these agencies change their viewpoints and conclusions at will, even putting our politicians to shame

But when an alternative system of medicine comes up with something, these people reject it outright, without a second glance, saying 'there's not enough scientific proof', 'it's not conclusive', 'we cannot really say for sure', etc.

End of rant.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

A couple of days ago, my reply to this post citing lack of evidence for Remdesivir having significant impact on covid 19 survival was deleted by the moderators (I don't know what medical background they have), just on the premise of the information being copied from a news based article. Moderators, please be informed that there are hundreds of fake news aggregators, but dismissing everyone on that ground is illogical.

Your post has been restored & I had also sent you a PM yesterday. Just to clarify, your post was deleted because it simply copied the text without even linking to or mentioning the source.

If you wish to link to an article, you must:

- Put the copied text in a QUOTE tag (else people will think you have typed the text).

- Credit the original source.

Thanks for the support & understanding

[poloman]

India cases at nearly 4 months low of around 36,000 cases. While we have still a lot more ground to clear, the curve looks lot more directional and stable.

I think looking back the actions like a strict lock down followed by a opening up have made much more sense looking back now. The death rate is the lowest among major population countries. Better treatment protocols are in place and hospitals are not overwhelmed even when there was a major spike in case. This from my own experience of my mother's case.
Old population was not left to die like in some other countries. All this with limited resources and infrastructure.

The govt had received major brick bats on this forum and atleast we should start giving credit where it is due. If we are able to avoid a second wave around festival season and get a vaccine handy in next 3 months I would say as a country, we have tackled the situation exceedingly well.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by poloman

The govt had received major brick bats on this forum and at least we should start giving credit where it is due.

I'm sorry, but credit for what?!

Even after all that has happened do we think the lockdown we had was a success?!

The death rate has stabilized because as you correctly said doctors and hospitals have learned more about the disease and have shared and developed better treatment protocols. Not because of anything that the government has directly done. In fact, most governments would have done better supporting the doctors and the hospitals in the initial days instead of trying to control them centrally and even shutting down private hospitals- like we did so many!

Yes, now the situation and the messaging the government is giving out is much better. But that could have happened much earlier, and this is not just hindsight, as far back as April-May, there were several doctors saying so. (Even on this forum, anyone can go to the 'lockdown' thread and see for themselves what was being discussed and when.) It took the government this much time to realize what needed to be done, and more importantly, what not to do.

So yes let us give credit to the doctors, nurses, and healthcare professionals around the world who have done their jobs spectacularly well in spite of government interference!

(Anyway no government will be held accountable for the mess they made, but at least we can not start rewriting what actually happened!)

[poloman]

Originally Posted by am1m

I'm sorry, but credit for what?!

Even after all that has happened do we think the lockdown we had was a success?!

The death rate has stabilized because as you correctly said doctors and hospitals have learned more about the disease and have shared and developed better treatment protocols. Not because of anything that the government has directly done. In fact, most governments would have done better supporting the doctors and the hospitals in the initial days instead of trying to control them centrally and even shutting down private hospitals- like we did so many!

That was the whole purpose of lock down I suppose. Get time on your side, flatten the curve till better treatment protocol emerges. Keep the deaths down.

Other countries are seeing second and third waves and are enforcing lockdowns even now. Now the priority should be we don't go down that path.

I am not here for a debate. But I really hope, Indians reduce the negative defeatist attitude.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by poloman

But I really hope, Indians reduce the negative defeatist attitude.

Just because one states facts (which are on public record) which may not be flattering to the government, does not make it a negative attitude. And appreciation was expressed for all doctors, nurses, and healthcare professionals. That includes our Indian professionals too. In fact more than most other healthcare setups in the world, our Indian healthcare professionals have had to do a lot more with a lot less support during this time. They have truly gone beyond anything that can be reasonably expected of them.

[bhushan08]

Originally Posted by am1m

Just because one states facts (which are on public record) which may not be flattering to the government, does not make it a negative attitude. And appreciation was expressed for all doctors, nurses, and healthcare professionals. That includes our Indian professionals too. In fact more than most other healthcare setups in the world, our Indian healthcare professionals have had to do a lot more with a lot less support during this time. They have truly gone beyond anything that can be reasonably expected of them.

At the time of early COVID fear (mar - Apr), lockdown was considered to be on the most viable strategy across the world (possible exception Sweden). The choice was b/w lives and livelihood. There was no reason to believe that India would have lower death rates vs. the world at that time. This is an infectious disease with no cure and thus we could have had more fatalities.
Thus, GoI and many others opted for lives (over livelihood) as lives are irreplaceable and politically the apt decisions.

With the benefit of hindsight, what would we have done if we were in the same decision making situation in April?

Here is what I think:
1. Lockdown with an explicit end timeline (e.g. lockdown ends in 45 days). This would have helped people plan better, instead of the fortnightly anxiety of PM coming on TV and telling what will happen next. This in turn would have meant: Less migration to rural and lower spread there, lower job cuts etc
2. Goals on what lockdown was meant to achieve - Hospital infra, treatment protocols etc. Livelihood hardship would have been easier to digest if we all knew the actual infra/facilities built. Daily/weekly report on the same instead of the daily case count briefings that were meaningless and only spread more panic

Net net, the choice was b/w devil and deep blue sea. I am not sure if we could have kept the country open and risk possible loss of more lives.

The country is not out of the woods yet. Livelihood had major impact and we can't afford another lockdown. At this stage the responsibility is with us citizens: To follow guidelines and prevent a second wave that is happening in other countries.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by bhushan08

At the time of early COVID fear (mar - Apr), lockdown was considered to be on the most viable strategy across the world (possible exception Sweden).

No one is disputing that. If it was just about the initial lockdown then absolutely- no one knew what strategy would work, everyone was guessing. But what happened subsequently with the mismanagement of the situation is the issue, and well documented in the news. Anyway, that has been discussed more than enough on the 'lockdown' thread, I was just responding to a post that brought it up in this thread.

[ABHI_1512]

Haven’t been following this thread lately but thought of putting some words. We already had a thread on the lockdown and I would hope people would have by now realised the futility of the lockdown. I mean I don’t see any change in the situation which was not there in the early part of the year and when the lockdown happened.

The only change I see is the approach of the doctors and healthcare professionals, since they now have a better understanding about tackling the virus. General awareness is little on the higher side but as a whole I don’t think the lockdown achieved anything apart giving the authorities an excuse to put the blame of a negative economy on the pandemic, and which economy was already in the doldrums much before the pandemic happened.

I keep hearing about some second wave and third wave that other countries are facing and that, we as a country have achieved some fair results in comparison with them. The truth is, the sheer paranoia that was propagated initially has reduced, now that people got to know about the virus from various authentic sources.

Till some time ago, the virus was all over the news for some time before a temple construction took over and then the death of an actor took center stage and now some other distraction will take place too. On one hand, politicians warn people to maintain the rules regarding the virus, not indulge in festivities and on the other hand, election rallies are organised in massive numbers without an iota of rules !!

It’s about time that we hold people in authority responsible for the mess we are in. If you now say that we should get on with our lives with proper precautions then what was the point of the lockdown ?? I have not seen any new medical hospital or college come up in the last six months, not even an announcement. All we have seen is maximisation of hospital beds or increase in hospital beds.

Every healthcare facility is running same as before with now, Covid beds are going vacant even which was not the case, when the lockdown was announced. Everyone was running helter skelter to hospitals, making the genuine patients die in the process due to lack of beds. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing has changed, only the outlook towards the virus has changed. Only, some people have made insane amounts of money in the garb of the pandemic, playing on the fears of many while a majority lost their jobs and don’t know what to do.

Good folks, please wear masks because that’s the only thing that’s between you and the virus when outside, nothing else matters.

P.S- Moderators may delete if found inappropriate for the thread.

[Nalin1]

Can somebody explain why is it suddenly called second wave or third wave? The number of detected cases (actual may be far more) may increase and decrease with the number of tests conducted or any other medical reason. But the fact is that the virus is very much around and will be for the foreseeable future. So how does it matter really if it is second/third/fourth wave?