[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by AZT

there’s some fake video being spread.

There's some really crazy snake-oil woman (who just also happens to have a degree in medicine) in USA. I'll post the link tomorrow (in owl hours; later today in normal hours). It's the sort of thing that would be funny if it wasn't true.

[ankan.m.blr]

And now this :

Bizarre violation of Covid-19 norms: Kerala businessman holds roadshow with new Mercedes Benz, booked

Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/videos/ci...w/77253822.cms

[Thanos-VV]

Not an accident. But idiotic action done by the owner and for that now the new Benz is lying in the Police Station.

Short Summary:
As per the news channel report given in the video, this is the first Benz GLE Series delivered in India (i have not verified it but that is how it is being reported) and he wanted to do a Roadshow (new Car and a set of Trucks) to let everyone in the Town know that he got the new Car. But he never realized that, sitting on top of moving Vehicle is illegal and also conducting a Roadshow in this Covid Time is a very bad move.

End result:
Brand new Car and 6 Torres trucks are now in Police Station. Sad fate for the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCrAHvRANmM

[proton]

Originally Posted by msdivy

We need to know the source of his 'blase'. Is it because of contempt for virus or does he fully understand the risks?

It's obvious that there are two poles of opinions, one saying the virus is deadly, and the other saying it's not, because only a few people are seriously affected. He chose to believe the latter. Unfortunately, it becomes deadly when you become part of the 'few'. In other words, when you gamble, and using an automobile ananalogy, since we are that kind of discussion site, when you go 'round the blind corner the easy way, in a lazy wide swing...

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by proton

... 'round the blind corner the easy way, in a lazy wide swing...

Let me throw in: Nothing will happen. Until the day it does.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

There's some really crazy snake-oil woman (who just also happens to have a degree in medicine) in USA. ...

Here you go:

Why is Donald Trump Jr amplifying a quack who believes in 'demon sperm'?

Yes, she believes in hydroxychloroquine. And demon sperm.

Not that there is not room for contrary thought in medicine. Many great advances (like surgeons washing their hands) have been made by doctors who were vilified for their at-the-time-revolutionary thinking. Cholera being transmitted by water, not air, was another historic example. And from our lifetime, bacteria being able to survive stomach acid and being associated with ulcers.

And MMR vaccine being associated with autism. Oh wait, that one really was crap. Sometimes the medical profession can't tell the difference. How are we laymen supposed to? And that "Doctor" Wakefield is still making money preaching to anti-vaxxers. Even Trump knows they are "nuts!"

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by proton

It's obvious that there are two poles of opinions, one saying the virus is deadly, and the other saying it's not, because only a few people are seriously affected. He chose to believe the latter. Unfortunately, it becomes deadly when you become part of the 'few'. In other words, when you gamble, and using an automobile ananalogy, since we are that kind of discussion site, when you go 'round the blind corner the easy way, in a lazy wide swing...

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Let me throw in: Nothing will happen. Until the day it does.

This is true of every disease . Everyone has to make their own (and family's) risk assessment, not only of contracting Covid but of it getting serious. There is enough information and data now to make such individual risk assessment.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don't about how doctors were treating Covid patients, here we have not used PPE while dealing with Covid patients, just N95 mask and goggles/face shield. As per the 'experts' why couldn't lockdown eradicate the virus which has only 14 days infectivity period, 4 times that was the lockdown period! Every single day during lockdown the cases were increasing, and proponents are telling millions were saved! One can imagine many things. I can save more millions with banning alcohol and tobacco, that won't be imaginary numbers.

You are absolutely spot on ! I agree with your perspective. I am thinking of advising my patients henceforth to stop undertaking any kind of road travel as a whopping number of 405 deaths in India happen each and everyday due to road traffic accidents. And this statistics holds true for the last 5 years. With so much of high risk out there, any kind of leisurely road trip to your favourite hill station/beach whether covid times or not is absolutely "unnecessary" ( going by the paranoid covid logic ). I totally agree with you that I can save millions of lives by banning tobacco/alcohol right away but the very proponents of covid paranoia will now come up with a justification as to how people should be allowed to choose a lifestyle for themselves by understanding the health risks and how moderation is the key and all that blah blah nonsense ( I am anyhow a very strict anti--alcohol/anti--smoking person, so I would ban these unwanted substances from the planet right away if given a chance ).

Its sad to hear that you had to work in the frontline without a protective gear. Hats off to you for still being courageous and serving mankind. Hope you kick this virus butt as soon as possible. Get well soon. I am thankful to my hospital on this front that we never faced any deficiency with respect to the PPEs ( personal protective equipments ). However, at times, I have taken off the annoying foggy goggles while performing intubations on covid patients and managed these aerosolised tasks with faceshields alone.

The fact that many stable covid positive patients have recovered with home isolation alone is because, the body's immune system was at work and perhaps the formation of antibodies, what else. This is basic science and I agree with you on that. Herd immunity might be poorly understood with Covid, but that doesn't mean its not happening altogether.

By the way, let us take my homestate Karnataka in consideration. For 3.5+ months, Karnataka was basking in glory about good control. All the proponents of lockdown, 3 months was a fair amount of time to give a breather to the healthcare system in Karnataka at a time when Mumbai/Maharashtra where I live was reeling under crisis. But please tell me, did Karnataka achieve anything remarkable during this period of intense lockdowns when cases were very less. What made the GoK think that there would be no surge in cases when borders were opened for interstate travel ?? That this damn virus is super contagious was well known by then, but did Karnataka really put any significant measures in place to tackle the anticipated surge after 3 months ?? No, because if that was true we wouldn't have read instances on this very forum how patients died in Bangalore due to unavailability of beds or hospitals refusing to admit patients exhibiting respiratory symptoms. What is happening in Bangalore now is simply a repeat of Mumbai indicating that lockdown period was not effectively utilised at all. Even in my hometown Belgaum, people have died due to non-covid causes purely because of hospitals refusing to take in patients. We also came across reports on how some hospitals in Bangalore saw a significant percentage of staff including Doctors not reporting to work due to the fear psychosis. And this fear has been repeatedly amplified by lockdown mentality and media channels. My intention is to simply say, lockdown in isolation was always useless. Some substantial ground work including " spread of awareness" also needed to be undertaken alongside. I am appalled that Doctors in Bangalore ran away from their duties. Seriously ?? This is the time for us doctors to stand strong come what may. I am not a fearless Doctor, I am also fearful about my life, my people, my wishes, my desires but I am certainly not a stupid one at that be it covid pandemic or ebola.

The reason Mumbai hospitals are gradually seeing less Covid admissions is because the awareness regarding home isolation for stable covid positive patients is slowly spreading around. I have honestly contributed 3 patients to this lot. And trust me, this is the road ahead. But the crunch is still significant, access to healthcare is very difficult in Mumbai even today.

[mvadg]

Just thought I'd share some Twitter posts by Lindsey Marr that seem to agree with whatever I can deduce about aerosols and this virus. The key is to think of aerosols as smoke to better understand the behavior of virus particles. Link to her nytimes article:
Yes, the Coronavirus Is in the Air https://nyti.ms/3hUaaPb

... The virus can be released into the air through coughing, sneezing, talking, and breathing. Some people release more than others. The virus is in droplets that range in size from smaller than we can see to large ones that fall to the floor quickly. There is no hard cutoff between "aerosols" and "droplets". At close range (imagine a breath cloud on a cold day), the concentration of airborne virus will be quite high. As you get farther from the source, the concentration falls off rapidly. If you are close, you are much more likely to inhale the virus. You are also more likely to be sprayed by large droplets that land on your face, which doesn't happen if you're farther away. Viruses in small droplets can float around in air for many hours, but they will likely be quite diluted unless you're in a small confined space. You could inhale these, but it's much less likely than if you're close to the person. Airborne viruses will eventually settle on surfaces, like the floor and tables, and could be picked up if someone touches them. However, their ability to survive varies with temperature, humidity, and surface material. They decay gradually over hours or days. It's not like they all stick around for 9 days and then, poof, suddenly disappear. Think of them as fading away. I should have used cigarette smoke as a better analogy than a breath cloud because smoke has particles that stick around and fall onto surfaces. Tiny water droplets in a breath cloud eventually evaporate into the gas phase.

[Gansan]

OT.

I always used to take the car and bike for service and watched them being serviced. I always took my own oil as well. Since more than one year is over after the last service, I have arranged for MSM to take it for service tomorrow and return on Saturday. They will do the oil change this time.

After the car comes back, how long should I wait before it will be safe for me to enter, sanitize and drive it? I am thinking four days should be sufficient. Car will be parked inside the premises but open to sky, exposed to sunlight though with a cover on.

I have recently turned sixty.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by am1m

Phase 5 of the flight schedule for August has a couple of flights back, but apparently already sold out. According to him there are travel agents who snap up most of the tickets and resell them at a higher cost.

Update on this, just in case anyone else is looking for similar info- he ended up getting a ticket from one of the travel agents even though the Air India website showed them as sold out and even though it was supposed to be possible to book tickets using the website. I guess the twitter notifications by the Ministry of Aviation and AI informing people not to pay agents more than the ticket price on the website helped.

https://twitter.com/airindiain/statu...97144723202048
https://twitter.com/airindiain/statu...12783823171591

[proton]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

This is true of every disease . Everyone has to make their own (and family's) risk assessment, not only of contracting Covid but of it getting serious. There is enough information and data now to make such individual risk assessment.

So what went wrong with my friend's "risk assessment"? He is more scientifically advanced than I am, actually has doctors in his family. Some family members teach at Harvard, have received Rhodes scholarships. If you google their family name, they are stars.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by proton

So what went wrong with my friend's "risk assessment"?

Individual risk assessments can be done on the basis of what activities they are doing, how many people they are living with, how often they (or family members) go out etc.

There is plenty reliable information available on the internet, e.g source 1, source 2.


Here's a good chart. Source Scott Gottlieb, former director of CDC, US.

[proton]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Individual risk assessments can be done on the basis of what activities they are doing, how many people they are living with, how often they (or family members) go out etc.

I said he made a mistake with thinking he would get seriously affected. So what was the risk assessment he could have made to avoid that outcome?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Here's a good chart.

I don't necessarily disagree with that chart, which seems to make sense, but nor do I believe it is based on analysis.

[proton]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I don't necessarily disagree with that chart, which seems to make sense, but nor do I believe it is based on analysis.

Yesterday, Anderson Cooper and Dr Sanjay Gupta interviewed Dr Fauci , the medical advisor for the pandemic control in the US. He made a point that the country was so big that it required a variegated response in different regions, a bit similar to India, which is also large, a subcontinent. In other words in places like Montana, for example, where the virus had not even reached, life could be lived most normally, with no restrictions. That was partly responsible for my friend's miscalculation. Everybody was saying that Bangalore seemed to have escaped the problems faced by the other metros. Unfortunately, it was just a matter of the wave making its way at different times in different regions and he was hit because the reports were not timely, lagging, unlike reporting done in efficient countries. Different areas peaking at different times also noted here, one week ago:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gHakQGaEd9g