[Behemoth]

Just watching a recent expose on Times now world channel where Big Pharma companies are caught paying Medical Journals (Including lancet) to Malign HCQ and push their own agenda. Shows how powerful bog pharna is and how they can also influence bodies like FDA and even WHO to push their own expensive medicines.

Another similar scenario happened in Peru where Doctors en masse have adopted Ivermectin and found it very effective while the WHO was trying to push against it. The doctors forced the Peru government to accept the cure and now it is officially approved by the Govt there as a cure
https://www.trialsitenews.com/how-a-...erapy-in-peru/

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

These are the rates Max Hospitals (in Delhi NCR) are charging for Covid treatment.

I am not trying to make excuses for this or other high end hospitals. I don't work for them. These are merely their regular rates for this sort of treatment, room etc. They are not charging anything extra for Covid. These rates may seem high to one person {in this case probably you} and yet seem reasonable to another. Even if they offered a 25% discount then that lower rate will still be too high for millions of others. And then we can assume a second 25% discount and it will still be out of reach of lakhs. So where does one stop and who pays for this loss the hospital is expected to bear - the Govt? the patients with other non-Covid illnesses? the employees? the shareholders? -who? The Govt, the only body that can levy a tax, has thus far chosen not to spend money to subsidize Covid-19 treatment at private hospitals. I can't see how any one else can.

Fact is with its constant stern high risk messaging and unrealistic lockdowns the Govt has already put this fear in the heads of most citizens that Covid19 is the only medical condition to fear or pay attention to. That fear is certainly playing out in the media and on this thread.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I am not trying to make excuses for this or other high end hospitals. I don't work for them. These are merely their regular rates for this sort of treatment, room etc. They are not charging anything extra for Covid.

No not really. The covid treatment rates are 4x the normal rates (I have used these hospitals many times) ward rates are 6.5k per bed per day and private room charges are around 12k in these hospitals for other treatments. I have used Max Gurgaon, Fortis Gurgaon and also Medanta for myself / close family. These hospitals are charging far higher from Covid patients and they will justify saying that extra precautions and isolation is required, but that should not be any justification for such exhorbitant rates.

[Behemoth]

Apologies for a back to back post.
Here is the link to the Peruvian Govt official Gazette post sharing the approved treatments:
https://busquedas.elperuano.pe/norma...nsa-1866159-4/
Please use Google translate to translate from Spanish to English. Also below are some snapshots of the treatment recommended:

[Mr.Bentley]

Received this as WhatsApp forward. I've been seeing similar info from multiple sources.

Can anyone comment about the authenticity of this particular content?

Covid Medical kit Required at home:

1. Paracetamol
2. Betadine for mouthwash and gargle
3. Vitamin C and D3
5. B complex
6. Vapour+ capsules for steam
7. Oximeter
8. Oxygen cylinder (for emergency only)
9. arogya Setu app
10.Breathing Exercises

Covid Three stages:

1. Covid only in nose - recovery time is half a day. (Steam inhaling), vitamin C. Usually no fever. Asymptomatic.

2. Covid in throat - sore throat, recovery time 1 day (hot water gargle, warm water to drink, if temp then paracetamol. Vitamin C, Bcomplex. If severe than antibiotic.

3. Covid in lungs- coughing and breathlessness 4 to 5 days. (Vitamin C, B complex, hot water gargle, oximeter, paracetamol, cylinder if severe, lot of liquid required, deep breathing exercise.

Stage when to approach hospital:
Monitor the oxygen level. If it goes near 43 (normal 98-100) then you need oxygen cylinder. If available at home, then no hospital else admit.

*Stay healthy, Stay Safe!*
Please fwd to your contacts in India. You never know who it may help.
Tata Group has started good initiative, they are providing free doctors consultation online through chats. This facility is started for you so that you need not to go out for doctors and you will be safe at home.

Below is the link, I reqest everyone to take benefit of this facility.
https://www.tatahealth.com/online-do...eral-physician

[Thad E Ginathom]

Would anything genuine advise "Oxygen cylinder (for emergency only)?"

And what would you do with that? How would you know how to set the dosage? How would you know not to blow your house up?

(The "you" is the general you, not you of course.)

Why not go direct to a reputed source: do not play guessing games with whatsapp forewards!

[jpcoolguy]

Idea of Immunity certificate, in post-covid era.

‘Are you immune?’ The new class system that could shape the Covid-19 world

Scrolling through Airbnbs in Brooklyn, one listing stands out. “IMMUNE HOST,” claims the heading in caps. Among photos of rooftop sunsets and interiors, lies something else unexpected – a picture of a positive antibody test.

In the absence of a vaccine, immunity is emerging as a potential key to resuming normal life after the pandemic – leading some to believe that testing positive may not be such a bad thing. Providing they survive, they will at least – they hope – be immune.

But experts predict that if survivors are found to be immune, they could perform a range of jobs and services – such as volunteering in hospitals and nursing homes, caring for coronavirus patients and working in shops and food processing plants – risk-free. And, depending on how authorities, business and society at large respond, they could also be entitled to greater freedoms.

Even though, the idea is interesting, considering our country's system, someone can easily "procure" the certificate by other means. And this could also lead to below quoted madness like "Coronavirus parties".

Dr Jerome Williams Jr, cardiologist and senior vice-president of consumer engagement at Novant Health, says they have had multiple people test positive in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, after attending “coronavirus parties” – gathering unprotected with positive people – in the hope of getting infected.

[theMandarin]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

No not really. The covid treatment rates are 4x the normal rates (I have used these hospitals many times).

+1 to this. Anyone who has had to avail medical facilities in such hospital chains can relate to these rates being heavily inflated, atleast by a factor of 2.5X.

Thats especially true because these are the base rates and they will inflate the charge further as other complications arise(not blaming them here).

It's supply vs demand.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

Received this as WhatsApp forward. I've been seeing similar info from multiple sources.

Can anyone comment about the authenticity of this particular content?

I am not a doctor but want to comment on one point from the image you shared.

The message mentions 43 to be the oxygen saturation value when a person needs a cylinder.

Based on what i know, this is way below acceptable levels. Even something lower than 80 is extremely alarming for an otherwise normal individual.

Doctors can advise further but dont trust these messages blindly.

Pro Tip: Many Samsung devices have an inbuilt oxymeter which has good accuracy. It can be used for a quick reference or as a way to validate results from a dedicated pulse oxymeter.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by theMandarin

The message mentions 43 to be the oxygen saturation value when a person needs a cylinder.

If this is referring to the finger-clip-on pulse oximeter, 43 is a nonsense: I think the person would have been dead for two days!

I have seen two useful pieces of advice about these things. First is, below 95 see a doctor and below 90 go to hospital. However I have also read that it is necessary to use the device regularly to find one's own baseline.

Have just bought one about a week ago. My wife gets a lovely 97-99; I get a measly 93-96, but I'm still alive. It doesn't surprise me: I have long known that my blood pressure is low, and my when-healthy body temperature is at least 1 degree (F: somehow I never converted my sense of body temperature to C) lower than "average."

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

If this is referring to the finger-clip-on pulse oximeter, 43 is a nonsense: I think the person would have been dead for two days!
"average."

Originally Posted by theMandarin

...
I am not a doctor ...
Based on what i know, this is way below acceptable levels. Even something lower than 80 is extremely alarming for an otherwise normal individual.
Doctors can advise further but dont trust these messages blindly.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

Received this as WhatsApp forward. I've been seeing similar info from multiple sources.
Can anyone comment about the authenticity of this particular content?

I always double-check anything that even seems remotely plausible from WhatsApp University. - being the Dr. Skeptic that I am!

Thanks @Thad - that reminds me, I have already forgotten the baseline oximeter readings I took, after they seemed normal, will take them again, and this time will capture the family members and their reading in a pic and upload them to Gmail for easy access.

"Average" has to be taken in context. Our expectation of "normal" body temperature, I feel, have been drilled into us by our high school science textbooks that did not mention anything about the variation. Thanks to Dr. Google, we now know so much better.

Covid-19 is done. We failed. Major fail! I am now wondering now if our "learned" epidemiologists, health professionals and those in the related professions and in the government are prepared to handle the next Corona-virus.

While I'm sure the rest of the world will be better prepared, given the past performance of our country in such matters I am not too hopeful. Here is an interesting article about how scientists have been predicting this virus for years:
How it feels to predict a pandemic: Interview with David Quammen, author of Spillover

Quammen: Yes. For 15 years, scientists have said: “Watch out for coronaviruses; they could be very dangerous.” And for five years, Chinese scientist Zhengli Shi at Wuhan Institute of Virology has been warning us to watch out for the coronaviruses found in Chinese bats; SARS is a coronavirus, and it came out of Chinese bats in 2003. That was very dangerous to humans, but it didn’t transmit as readily as this one does. But Shi and her group saw a virus very similar to it in bats in a cave in Yunnan Province and published a paper in 2017 saying, “Watch out for these particular coronaviruses in these horseshoe bats. They necessitate the highest preparedness.” That was three years ago.

Quammen: On NPR this morning, somebody made the casual statement that, “In six months or a year maybe this virus will be gone.”

This virus is not going to be gone. This virus is never going to be gone.

We have friends who have children and grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren will be vaccinated against this virus.

Quammen: The medical doctor Paul Offit is a skeptic on the instant vaccine thing. He’s been telling everyone to slow down on expectations for a vaccine, and stop celebrating Moderna or Gilead or whoever has got the prototype vaccine. He says there’s a ridiculous amount of hoopla for a tiny sample size at a very preliminary stage. Vaccine development takes a long time, and a lot of luck. And then vaccine manufacturing at scale takes another truckload of time…

How China’s ‘Bat Woman’ Hunted Down Viruses from SARS to the New Coronavirus

“Bat-borne coronaviruses will cause more outbreaks,” Shi says with a tone of brooding certainty. “We must find them before they find us.” 

So my question to all our erudite members is: What should we do about the next pandemic?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Have just bought one about a week ago. My wife gets a lovely 97-99; I get a measly 93-96

Originally Posted by mvadg

Thanks @Thad - that reminds me, I have already forgotten the baseline oximeter readings I took, after they seemed normal, will take them again, and this time will capture the family members and their reading in a pic and upload them to Gmail for easy access.

Any links to get this online? I think this should be a good check in addition to temperature, in these times.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Any links to get this online? I think this should be a good check in addition to temperature, in these times.

Here's the one I got:
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00TCIFFIS

Choicemmed Pulse Oximeter MD300C20-NMR - by Omron

• 
  
  
  
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[atnyia]

Originally Posted by theMandarin

these rates being heavily inflated, atleast by a factor of 2.5X.
..
It's supply vs demand.

2.5X isn't supply versus demand. It's is price gouging. Supply vs demand is 10-20-25 percent markups which happen due to inflexible supplies and increased demand.

Let's take a simple example. For N95 masks, the price would increase due to a shortage of raw material, competition for labor, and other higher costs. It's understandable for any area with sudden demand spikes.
For the hospitals, costs aren't increasing by 2.5X. At max, the cost increase would be 10-15% for increased staff and additional medical supplies. The major portion of the cost is fixed (rooms, big machines, scanners).

Hospitals go full capacity occupied, like schools. They aren't a commodity.

[Sree]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/the...t-2156213.html

ICMR says that 6.2% of gdp needs to be spend on corona fight. Even if the health care budget double from its present 1.8%, I will be more than happy. A country with its defence budget at multiple times its health care budget, it speaks about the priorities of our people. Out of pocket expenses for health care In India is far higher than in most civilised countries and should not really be acceptable to anyone.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

If this is referring to the finger-clip-on pulse oximeter, 43 is a nonsense: I think the person would have been dead for two days!

Anything less than 90% requires supplemental oxygen. Covid produces so called ‘happy hypoxia’. Hence the need to monitor oxygen saturation. Usually people get physically distressed When oxygen levels drop. For some reason, this is not happening with covid. So patients both at home and in hospital are not suspected to be hypoxic till very late, when they suddenly crash and needs intubation and ventilation.

This was described relatively early in the pandemic

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/o...e=articleShare

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

Received this as WhatsApp forward. I've been seeing similar info from multiple sources.

Can anyone comment about the authenticity of this particular content?

'Coronavirus in nose', 'Coronavirus in throat' and 'Coronavirus in lungs'.

Is this Whack-a-mole game where we can use our mallets to beat down this nefarious virus when it rears its ugly head?

Besides, what I meant to do with just the oxygen cylinder? Remove the regulator and rubber hose from the gas cylinder and shove it down the patients throat using a highly calibrated flow limiter (my hand) to control the oxygen flow into the patient?

'I don't know who it may help', but I do know that this will cause more harm than good. From people not reporting their ILI and SARI symptoms because they are already scared of being quarantined and financially bankrupt from treatments in private hospitals to idiots buying up oxygen cylinders (that hospitals will desperately need). All because some genius decided he is a doctor and to share his gyan with his friends on Whatsapp.

I will leave the decision up to the mods on whether to clean up the thread or not. Happy to see that there are people having doubts about it though.