[srishiva]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Covid-19 has not gone viral in India yet but some in the world and at home can't accept the truth

https://theprint.in/national-interes...-truth/404178/

A first class essay by Shekhar Gupta who is one of the most outspoken yet balanced of senior journalists with none of the pretensions and prejudices of the Lutyens Delhi Khan Market media wallahs.

What he writes also reflects how India has in some ways moved on while certain sections of our own people and the West are still lost in the India of 1975.

Excerpts from the article....

I have written similar comments on NY Times, Washington Post etc on why they are forecasting doom for India. In BBC, the Indian origin writers, the specialist NRIs in UK and US they quote have been very disappointed.

We have a lot of issues. But when it comes to anything that involves a lot of people to oversee things, we do have a lot of people to do just that There are so many people doing many bits a pieces things in this fight that is all working. Inspite of a stingy central govt that doesnt fund state govts.

Infected cases are still climbing and we are not perfect. Cases will increase but not in the way the world thought it would.

Coming back to India, there is some biased reporting on successes concerning some states too. So we have many such people internally in our country including a certain Ms Roy who thinks this is being misused to force a genocide.

[Miyata]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Name-calling aside, there's nothing polarizing about the actual underlying point of view.

Point of view itself is fine, what is polarizing is the manner in which it put forth. The author comes across as emotionally agitated in putting forth views that could otherwise be put in a more respectful manner.

Although I do not follow much cricket, but a close analogue would be saying something like - Virat Kohli is an ignoramus, the way Kapil Dev would have handled the situation would be much different!

Originally Posted by carboy

a good read - https://www.technologyreview.com/202...a-coronavirus/

Fantastic article - Gives a very good overview of not only the scene in India overall, but also reasons why Kerala is a standout.

The kind of article authorities from all the states could do well to read (and prepare better).

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Miyata

Point of view itself is fine, what is polarizing is the manner in which it put forth. The author comes across as emotionally agitated in putting forth views that could otherwise be put in a more respectful manner....

I agree with you, and his tantrum is to his own argument's and credibility's detriment. He has a point saying Dr. Fauci shouldn't be in charge of or relied upon to make economic decisions, sound premise, but why doesn't he take it further logically and pose the question to those whose job it is to make those decisions?

Selective argument, unbalanced presentation and disjointed conclusion. He had a point somewhere in there, lost in all the toy-tossing, dummy-spitting and complicated insults.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Miyata

Point of view itself is fine, what is polarizing

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

He has a point saying Dr. Fauci shouldn't be in charge of or relied upon to make economic decisions...

I think we all recognize that people at the top are there because they have traits that allow them to climb to the top, which are not necessarily the ones that make them the best in their field. I don't know how YouTube presented just the right video on the topic of Incompetence and leadership (most likely, the algorithm got my search terms for Netflix Mindhunter which mentions white collar psychopaths) and that lead me to this article

The study of 261 senior professionals in the United States found that 21 per cent had clinically significant levels of psychopathic traits. The rate of psychopathy in the general population is about one in a hundred.

and this one

Also disturbing: this isn’t the first time researchers have noted psychopathic tendencies among senior executives. In research also reported by The Telegraph a few years ago, a psychologist warned of a growing number of “triadic persons” in the workplace who combine three types of dysfunctional personalities among white-collar workers: psychopath, Machiavellian, and narcissist. Such people, he warned “have a dangerous, yet effective mix of a lack of empathy, self-centeredness, deviousness and self-regard which can propel them to the top of the organizations.”

The YouTube video is titled "Why do so many incompetent men become leaders?"

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I do apologise, but would you like to be in Dharavi instead? Because that is what the average urban citizen in a big Indian city calls daily life.

I wasn't talking to the average urban citizen: I was talking to the person whose post I answered. I don't think he lives in Dharavi, and I don't think you do either.

Rest assured, if you fall ill and are not rich (enough to spend time online on a car forum, like we all are), you are at the mercy of an abysmal public health system, with gallant but overworked doctors, bad infrastructure, and a government that can't seem to make up its mind. We can't even get accident victims to the hospitals in time, forget dealing with pandemics. I have lived on both sides of this divide and availed of free government services, and I know which I'd trust ten times out of ten.

Sure, I am rich compared to huge numbers in India, but uninsured (too many petty previous complaints for risk-averse insurance companies) and not sure how long my capital would last in a private hospital.

Originally Posted by Samurai

As a British citizen, you grew up under free healthcare provided by NHS. For the uninformed, can you explain you prefer India over UK during this COVID-19 crisis? Why you feel safer in suburbs of Chennai than London?

Well, this...

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Going by pure numbers, I would still prefer to stay in my hometown in Kerala than any of these "Developed" countries or even metro cities in India with fancy multi speciality hospitals, during Covid.

Reason: developed countries may have high speciality treatments and facilities. But during Covid, it is the primary health infrastructure that matters more and not the fancy hospitals. Add to it the volunteering mentality of the people in these small towns. In these places, people are equally worried about if their neighbour have enough food supplies.

I have benefited greatly from the British National Health Service, from two or three minor operations to one major one, not to mention the availability (if you can convince the receptionist that you are at death's door ) of a family doctor.

I don't think that a visit to a London hospital today would compare favourably with the week I spent in The London Chest Hospital in about 1992, at which time it was already subject to major spending cuts. The corvid NHS of today: ventilator debacle, testing debacle, PPE debacle...

(Anyway: I've been away for too long to claim free NHS treatment now, despite having paid taxes for it)

Outside hospital: yes, I'd much rather be in my Chennai suburb than in London. One economic factor is that I'm rich enough to keep a maid, and she is shopping for us. My wife has been out on the street a couple of times: I have not, at all, in several weeks (I've lost count). A London friend asked if we would like to stay with her. At that point the corvid numbers for Tamil Nadu were insignificant compared to her London borough alone.

Added to all that, although isolation makes it less relevant, London is, for me now, a great place to be a tourist. It is not my home. Chennai is.

I cannot speak of or for other countries, but I would say that UK/London is not a desirable place to be in this pandemic. IF I do end up in hospital with this thing, and IF I was to come out again on my feet, we could then revisit the question!

[Dhiwakar92]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Rather off topic but as you have written it I feel the urge to respond.I do not know what fundamental change you are looking for or how you measure change or how you determine if change is adequate to applaud. While India fumbles and bumbles along I have seen India in its own unique way undergo more change socially, economically, opportunity wise, geo-politically in the last 70 years than almost any other country, other than China {PS: I've lived through most of those years and been reading newspapers for 50 of those 70}. And in our own disorganized way we managed it without killing millions in pogroms like the Cultural Revolution or the Great Leap Forward or without imploding {USSR, Yugoslavia} or running genocide campaigns {East Pakistan, Rwanda, Cambodia} or bombing other countries back to the stone age {USA - Vietnam, Iraq} or.....A very broad sweeping statement without a single supporting fact as an example or even a personal experience as an illustration is usually at best an opinion or at worst bigotry.

I'm not sure how discussing the aftermath of the pandemic and the lockdown are off topic. The fundamental change that I would like to see is some or many positive changes. Now, cleanliness certainly couldn't have stopped COVID-19 though I'm sure it can stop several other diseases. Would this country improve in those regards ? Would people stop littering and spitting on walls and urinating in public ? I don't think so but I hope I'm wrong.

If that doesn't happen, can we realize that our public health care system is weak and our hospital beds per 1000 persons or doctors per 1000 persons is abysmally low and invest a significantly high amount of resources towards that ? I don't think this will happen either but again, I hope I'm wrong.

It is these sort of fundamental changes that I would like to see.
We need to take lessons from this and improve as a nation.

Finally, maybe things have changed in the last 70 years in India but even today, access to 24/7 uninterrupted clean drinking water and electricity is a dream, not just for the poor but for the middle class as well.

If a country that has improved in many ways after 70 years still struggles to provide clean piped water and electricity without issues, well, we need to re-examine our priorities. One example, Chennai is parched, even today and Chennai is a metro city, I know this from first hand experience having lived there.

[yd_gli]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

A very broad sweeping statement without a single supporting fact as an example or even a personal experience as an illustration is usually at best an opinion or at worst bigotry.

Sir, with all due respect there are several asinine rules in play today even within a small section of my city. My 70 year old father with knee problems is expected to walk to the nearest grocery store because his society has banned the entry and exit of vehicles without a police permission number. We tried several times to request for police permission through the official app and never received a response. Several requests to the local police have fallen on deaf ears. Sorry, but there are several such instances of citizens being harassed and I don't see any other civilized country doing this. Thousands of severely diabetic patients in the city are prevented from taking a solitary 30min walk a day to save their health and this is as asinine as it gets. My diabetologist neighbor is at his wits end trying to help these patients out.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I cannot speak of or for other countries, but I would say that UK/London is not a desirable place to be in this pandemic. IF I do end up in hospital with this thing, and IF I was to come out again on my feet, we could then revisit the question!

I would not be so sure of that conclusion as yet. While we are in the initial stages of the pandemic, the West in spite of their large numbers might come out of this faster. They may have reacted late but then they are decades ahead of us in infrastructure and science and will probably get out of this as fast as one can. As per a few doctors I have spoken with, the lockdown only ensures that the cases are spread out over a longer time span but the total number would probably not change. An extended fight against the virus will result in severe economic and health challenges which might just be too much for India to take up. A year down the road and we'll probably know which strategy worked best.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Rather off topic but as you have written it I feel the urge to respond.I do not know what fundamental change you are looking for or how you measure change or how you determine if change is adequate to applaud. While India fumbles and bumbles along I have seen India in its own unique way undergo more change socially, economically, opportunity wise, geo-politically in the last 70 years than almost any other country, other than China

My experience obviously pales in front of yours, but I must ask you - why can't we be better than China? Why can't we provide basic healthcare, decent primary education, clean water and sanitation, and law and order? It is no one's case that we better off in all these regards than a Thailand or Philippines, let alone a western nation. I have no real answer but multiple suspicions.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I wasn't talking to the average urban citizen: I was talking to the person whose post I answered. I don't think he lives in Dharavi, and I don't think you do either.
Sure, I am rich compared to huge numbers in India, but uninsured (too many petty previous complaints for risk-averse insurance companies) and not sure how long my capital would last in a private hospital.

Yes, but social amenities and standard of living are judged by the lowest common social denominator. Otherwise, India would be a first world country based on Antilla and our Supercars and Imports section.

Having lived more recently in the UK (not during a pandemic), I can tell you that I would rather trust the NHS with my life than a private or govt hospital in India. As of two hours ago, my uneducated cleaning lady just got slapped with a 2.5 lakh rupee bill for her husband's undiagnosed illness - they ran every imaginable test on him (suspiciously like profiteering) and govt hospitals aren't admitting him.

[civic-sense]

Top ten states. It looks like the curve is beginning to flatten in many states. But Maharashtra and Gujarat continues there steep upward climb. Easing of lockdown restrictions could see a jump in numbers in the coming weeks. Still scary.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Top ten states. It looks like the curve is beginning to flatten in many states. But Maharashtra and Gujarat continues there steep upward climb. Easing of lockdown restrictions could see a jump in numbers in the coming weeks. Still scary.

Did you create the graph? If yes, can you do a logarithmic scale for y-axis? That will show the rate of growth.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by carboy

Did you create the graph? If yes, can you do a logarithmic scale for y-axis? That will show the rate of growth.

Here you go.

[JMaruru]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Here you go.
Attachment 1995741

Where is 'Karnataka' in this graph?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Here you go.Attachment 1995741

Thank you. Looks like Kerala is the only one doing great. Everyone else seems similar in terms of rate of growth.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by JMaruru

Where is 'Karnataka' in this graph?

Karnataka is in the 11th position. I included only the top 10. Karnataka may overtake Kerala today or tomorrow, though. And so may J&K. Maybe I'll change the graph to top 12, then.

[vivek95]

Not all first world countries mismanaged this crisis. Some of them were way ahead of the curve right from the beginning and it's none other than Germany on the forefront. Kudos

Read more here -- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...kdown.amp.html

--Dr. Vivek