[GTO]

Related Thread: Concerned about your carbon footprint?

I have no intention of making this a veg vs non-veg thread, so let's avoid unnecessary debates and stick to the facts here. What one eats is their personal choice & something they're entitled to.

Was reading the Impossible Burger story (YUMMY burger, by the way) and found this paragraph particularly interesting:

The UN estimates that 14.5 percent of greenhouse gas emissions come from meat production, about the same as from transportation -- planes, ships, trucks and all (link). Beef, in particular, has one of the highest carbon footprints, from forest clearing to bovine methane burps to the energy required for shipping and processing the product. The global population is forecast to reach 10 billion people by 2050, and demand for meat is rising in developing countries. Experts have called reducing meat consumption the most impactful thing individuals can do to reduce one's negative environmental impact -- more than buying an electric car or avoiding plane travel.

The ~14.5% figure includes ALL forms of transportation, meaning cars alone account for less than that. Finding it hard to believe, I did some googling and came up with several more sources stating the same thing. A small sample:

“It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he explained, which would only reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Eating a Burger or Driving a Car: Which harms the planet more?

How Beef is worse for the environment than cars

Climate change food calculator: What's your diet's carbon footprint?

Eating a vegan diet could be the “single biggest way” to reduce your environmental impact on earth

This is the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your impact on Earth: Avoid Meat And Dairy

Cows must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh. Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all water used in the U.S. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat.

* Producing just one hamburger uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles. Of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the U.S., more than one-third are devoted to raising animals for food.

* A typical pig factory generates the same amount of raw waste as a city of 12,000 people. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, raising animals for food is the number-one source of water pollution.

* Of all agricultural land in the U.S., 87 percent is used to raise animals for food. That’s 45 percent of the total land mass in the U.S. About 260 million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create cropland to produce feed for animals raised for food. The meat industry is directly responsible for 85 percent of all soil erosion in the U.S.

* More than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats are fed to livestock. The world’s cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth. According to the Worldwatch Institute, “Roughly 2 of every 5 tons of grain produced in the world is fed to livestock, poultry, or fish; decreasing consumption of these products, especially of beef, could free up massive quantities of grain and reduce pressure on land.”

Source

[karan561]

After watching ' The Game Changers ' on Netflix im convinced & i agree to the above claims

[Guna]

This has been known for long time.
It is the same with alcohol. Apparently 700 grapes are required to extract a glass of wine. I am sure there is similar generation loss/inefficiency involved in preparing other liquors as well and they leave very high carbon footprints.

[shankar.balan]

To make attar of roses, for the essence, it takes the lifeblood of ten thousand rose petals, to make just a few millilitres.

If we go on like this, then there is no end.
Humans have evolved to the Top of the Food Chain.

And we are now busy destroying the Mother that gave birth to us, by way of over production, over merchandising, over consumption, over wastage, over population, over pollution and over utilisation of just about everything there is.

I think it might be the natural order of things - we are racing in this way towards sureshot extinction.

So for now, lets just have some fun instead of over thinking it.

[KL01toKA03]

I changed my diet after learning about the harm it did to our planet.

Ironically, I drive a diesel car, because I cannot afford to change my car at this moment. That is why I feel that a voluntary change of diet, or increased taxation on meat and dairy products would reduce pollution than schemes to tackle pollutions by restricting vehicles. At an individual level, it might not make too much sense looking at the bigger picture or long-term sustainability. However, I think governments worldwide should focus on long-term sustainability. Tobacco level taxation on meat products, promoting consumption of insects, and EV adoption along with solar power generation should be priorities globally.

Meanwhile, here is the story of my diet progress:

As a child, I used to eat only non-veg. I hated vegetables, and had to have at least an egg every day. Gradually, I ate all sorts of animals (including dogs, mopane worms, crickets, snakes, bison).

I like watching documentaries, and after watching documentaries like Earthlings and Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret, I started thinking of adopting a vegan diet.

I initially stuck to a "no farm raised meat" diet, but gradually lost interest in eating fish also. I guess some part of my decision to switch to a vegan diet was based on improving my health, but it was mostly about improving the health of the planet. After becoming a vegan I have seen that my immunity levels have improved a lot. I used to catch a cold easily when I was on a meat-based diet. Now, I have forgotten the last time I fell ill.

[srini1785]

When was the last time we went through a day without having to hear about climate change?. I mean, not just here in TBHP but anywhere.

Ticking climate bomb- 10 minutes to climate apocalypse / Greta Thunberg's Stare / Use this instead of that / Carbon foot print calculation for typing this post / Gas emitted by sheep causes global temperature raise of 2 deg C / Reuse towels in hotel rooms to save environment / Tree Huggers Vs Might Govt Axe etc etc. It seems that we are bombarded with so much news that it is now becoming an overkill. Not to forget that some of this news are based on sources which can't be verified. Its not like newton's gravity.

Sample this :

No Meat : 20 Tonnes reduced.
No cars : 10 Tonnes reduced.
No marriage : 5 Tonnes reduced for every year you remain unmarried.
No more than 1 kid : Congrats ! You just hit the climate gold.

Don't mistake me , i am all for clean environment, just that imo , more of such news only numbs the already thick skinned sinners rather than convince them to convert.

My point being , we have had just too much climate change foreplay and it's time to get into the act. Period.

Oh btw, i am full vegetarian.

[avira_tk]

One bite into a steak is enough to convince me it's worth the trouble. Impossible burger is funded by the same people who want people eating industrially manufactured fake meat. Why is it that these types can't come up with original products? It's always fake meat and meat products.

The impact on the earth can be reduced by not having celebrities, teenagers and such fly around and lecture us on what to eat or how to celebrate traditional holidays without the specialty of the day. Industrial farming is just as destructive to the environment, soy is one such crop, grown by clearing rainforest. Soy is the main ingredient in the impossible burger, no coincidence there.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

One bite into a steak is enough to convince me it's worth the trouble. Impossible burger is funded by the same people...

The West have done all the damage these last few hundred years. Yes they have realised the error of their ways.

But now to try and act all ‘holier then thou” and trying to impose all these strictures on the developing world that they themselves so cruelly exploited just half a century ago, simply wont cut it. Sorry. Too bad.

Humankind is such that we need to learn from the mistakes we ourselves make and tend to not learn by “osmosis” based on someone else’s mistakes.

That said, there is a lot more we can all do, to discourage wasteful consumption and consequent waste generation. The first thing to note is that the world is too heavily populated by humans and it is time, there were some cutbacks in that department.

[noopster]

I clicked on the Source link in the opening post and stopped reading. It links to a PETA page.

Yes. That same sanctimonious organisation that euthanizes 80-90% of all animals it takes into its shelters. Link

PETA's response to the charges is a feeble, anecdote-filled sob story designed to tug at the heart strings, a far cry from the cold statistics they quote to prove how inhumane the act of eating meat is.

Don't get me wrong. I like animals and hate the thought of them being killed or tortured for sport. Or for fashion. But we're hypocritical. Have never figured out why killing cows for leather is OK but killing minks for fur isn't. Or why (controlled) deer-hunting is cool but shooting tigers isn't.

Or indeed, why eating chickens or goats or cows or pigs is fine but say you've eaten a dog or a snake and suddenly you're persona non-grata!

We seem to create artificial rules about the legitimacy of the act of killing animals based on their scarcity and cuteness, among other factors. But the system works for the most part, because despite our cultural differences, there seems to have emerged a consensus globally- with some notable differences rooted in religion or tradition- on what's OK to eat and what isn't.

So when PETA comes along lecturing us on how our dietary preferences are the prime reason little Greta Thunberg is so angry, we need to take a step back and look at the claims made. For that matter, what the Impossible Burger people are saying...think WHY they would say it. Why...to sell more burgers!

Some of the numbers quoted in this thread beggar belief. I really would like to dig deeper into them when I have the time. So should we all.

Meat eating is not something against human nature- in fact, we were hunters and gatherers way before humans invented agriculture. And those quoting these marvelous statistics rarely bother explaining where we would grow all the grain and vegetables the world would need to feed all these neo-vegetarians!

Originally Posted by karan561

After watching ' The Game Changers ' on Netflix im convinced & i agree to the above claims

Originally Posted by KL01toKA03

I like watching documentaries, and after watching documentaries like Earthlings and Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret, I started thinking of adopting a vegan diet.

Ah then...the solution is clear. Stop watching documentaries!

[naveenroy]

I love beef. I love the environment and I don't think that Climate Change is fake or that it is being pushed across by some leftist agenda.

But I really, really love my steak and beef. Even in India, I used to regularly eat beef, thankfully all the places I lived in openly sold beef. Yes, so many people have told me that beef production is the most harmful industry in the world. But my thought is that it is food production. Sustenance for humans. Are we going to stop people from eating a certain type of food because it supposedly harms the planet? A very tough question to answer.

[dark.knight]

I'll act like a prophet and tell what is to become of this topic - exactly what GTO wouldn't want it to become.

We've had a Vegan thread already which exposed just about every extremist argument possible, some of which were very hard to digest for vegetarians like myself and some very insulting to omnivores and in both ways, against all the pre-existing rules of communication as listed in the democratic rights (which is the least conflicting legal pillar we have today).

This thread is taking the same route going by initial posts.. there are points of concern (which are things we can mention) and points of action (which are things we can do) - though unfortunately NOT on forums and discussion boards.

Reading an article today that is free of vendetta, propaganda and manipulation is rare. As much as I love America which I think is at least a trillion times better than India, their virtue signalling off late is truly pathetic. They waste more things in a single day than the entire earth put together.. they have realized that their time of desecrating resources is coming to a halt and are dictating terms to the rest of the earth.

India was doing fine without their intervention, when meals were served on banana leaves, with all the food being prepared fresh and with minimal garnishing, where leftovers like rice, sambar, vegetables etc were put into an aluminum bucket alongwith the leaf to feed cows.. not a drop was wasted by my forefathers. Now we have McDonalds with their butter paper, plastic straws, brown paper etc, generating hundreds of tonnes of waste per day, and no cow or even crow will eat their freeze dried crap.

I'd remind everyone again, that carbon dioxide isnt as villainous as its made out to be, though industrial generation of it is certainly not preferable. Reduce, reuse, recycle is a golden mantra.

For as long as we continue to exist and procreate, there will be rising CO2, but we are the cycle of life, by we, I mean everything, even an ant. Doomsayers have a valid point, but when they question life itself and insist on curbing everything in a single day, its more of a paranoia than anything else. We as mankind, have not much time left, given the vast divide between genders, classes, ideals and religion, that is for sure.

Hope all arguments end here and not go on a sadistic tangent.

[naveenroy]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

I'll act like a prophet and tell what is to become of this topic - exactly what GTO wouldn't want it to become.

Reading an article today that is free of vendetta, propaganda and manipulation is rare. As much as I love America which I think is at least a trillion times better than India, their virtue signalling off late is truly pathetic.

I totally agree with all this! This thread will only go that way.

And I think it is not just the US!

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Though I get the context, I found the rest of your post offensive and thoughtless too, but we still have to find ways to move along dont we?

I would really like to know how my post was offensive and thoughtless? No, an honest question.

There is nothing to get in the context of what he posted. To talk of autism and you know exactly who he is talking about is quite ugly.

[ValarMorghulis]

Well actually pretty much anything that humans do have a substantial carbon footprint. And not just Meat, even rice (which is the staple food of more than half of the world's population) has a pretty bad CF and scientists have been saying that for years.
That said, well, moderation is required in everything and yes poor countries like India can neither afford to eliminate rice or meat from its diet, yet.
May be reduce cars by building more public transport?


Links: Independent article

Bloomberg article

[Vid6639]

Ah so this is what Lewis Hamilton was talking about:

Hamilton said he had changed his habits after watching a documentary about the environmental impact of the meat industry and animal welfare.

"Take it for what you want to take it for but as the human race what we are doing to the world, there is obviously the pollution that is coming just from the amount of cows that are being produced is incredible," he said.

"They say it is more than what we produce with our flights and our cars, which is kind of crazy to think. The cruelty is horrible and I don't necessarily want to support that and I want to be healthy. I want to live a healthier life."

He added that he hoped the diet would help him avoid future health problems like diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

"I don't want to catch any of that stuff," he said.

https://www.news18.com/news/sports/l...t-1520283.html

https://news.sky.com/story/lewis-ham...lanet-11836393

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/16/s...ntl/index.html

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/21/...nt-based-diet/

[bblost]

In about 50-60 years as most of the people who turned vegan today are living a very healthy life well into the 12th or 13th decade on Earth, it will be clear that Veganism is the best diet for Humans.

I will leave a note for my grand children to watch this space.

Till such time all these discussions about a Vegan diet are just as good as the Vegetarian diet over the normal diets (that is you eat everything).

I don't subscribe to the "Vegan is better for environment" as it appears foolish to replace a glass of Milk with Almond Juice and claim its better.