[vijaykr]

Excellent and very apt comments on this serious topic from both of you @lobogris and @V.Narayan sir.

Both my in-laws get pension from state govt. now as retired teachers and my mom gets family pension from the Bank my father worked with. So while their living expenses are mostly taken care, we kids support with medical related expenses or any big items as needed.

I don't expect any meaningful pension like them from my IT career except accumulated EPF. It is incumbent on me to plan the retirement for me and wife. At the very least, this will help me know what will be needed. Having spent so much of time and effort parenting over the years, our hope is that the kids make something bigger of their lives than what me and my wife did with ours - not necessarily in a monetary sense. And that they are able to contribute meaningfully to others and society at large. If they stay with us and/or help in our old age, that'd be icing on the cake. But we don't want to hold them back at the very least - financially.

So I'm planning our retirement phase as diligently as I can. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the numbers look high, but possibly can be achieved with a clear sense of purpose, savings and right investments. Personally for me, having the retirement finances sorted with a good plan makes it easier to focus on other aspects like health, travel, spirituality, activities to immerse myself into etc

Personally having been in Bangalore/Chennai most of my life, don't see myself moving to a smaller city or town. Visiting for a week or two, yes, but not settling there. My wife wants exactly that - a small house in a town with a couple of cats and dogs, fields, trees, garden and a white picket fence. Looks great when I picture it, but not my cup of tea.

The tangential discussion was only to highlight my likely need for higher retirement corpus due to wanting to be in a metro. Even with all this planning and covering financial aspects, we need many things to go our way in old age. That is where a certain forbearance and calmness of mind to accept and adapt to circumstances is required in my opinion. I don't have it today, but working on actively cultivating it.

I'm rereading this post, I realise I've been rambling quite a bit and strayed from "retirement planning" per se. Apologies for that and no offence meant to anyone for their posts and opinions. Cheers!

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

So I'm planning our retirement phase as diligently as I can. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the numbers look high, but possibly can be achieved with a clear sense of purpose, savings and right investments. Personally for me, having the retirement finances sorted with a good plan makes it easier to focus on other aspects like health, travel, spirituality, activities to immerse myself into etc

Personally having been in Bangalore/Chennai most of my life, don't see myself moving to a smaller city or town. Visiting for a week or two, yes, but not settling there. My wife wants exactly that - a small house in a town with a couple of cats and dogs, fields, trees, garden and a white picket fence. Looks great when I picture it, but not my cup of tea.

Thank you @vijaykr. Best wishes to you. My two paisa worth again. Like a cranky old man I talk {write} too much!:-)

# Money is not important. Say that and believe that only after you have earned and saved enough. Don't let anyone kid you on this. Changing downwards to a lower standard of living is inimical to self-confidence. Without the support of your job/business, title, position it is your standard of living that plays a significant role in how society determines who you are.

#If you are a big city dweller do not assume you can adjust to the life of a small city resident. With age you want to stick with the familiar. You want and need the physical comforts.

#At least for wife and me the bungalow option got less and less attractive with age. We shifted from our own dream 2-storey bungalow which we built ourselves to an apartment so that security, power back-up, water supply etc are all taken care of.

#Plan well in advance. After you've retired many will meet you once for old times' sake but fewer will do so the third time. So, whatever it is you plan to do prepare and sign up for it while you are still on the chair.

# Be mentally prepared for your own inner challenges and anguish as you relinquish your title and chair and become Mr. Nobody. If you hold a senior position or worse are a member of the CXO fraternity, it is all the more harder. My exit was voluntary and thoroughly planned and yet it took me 4 months to fully come to terms that I am now an individual contributor operating from my study table and not the boss of XXXX numbers of employees.

And to all the youngsters out there in their 40s and 30s a well planned retirement can actually give you the best years of your life - you have the energy to do whatever floats your boat and no boss, shareholder, banker, unhappy customer or Govt jo-jo to bother about.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Do I sense a sneering tone in that phrase Death Planning?

Need not be death also. I have seen people lose their faculty rapidly due to Parkinson's / Alzheimer's. If their spouses / children did not know where their assets were, it would have been a disaster.

Originally Posted by vijaykr

Personally having been in Bangalore/Chennai most of my life, don't see myself moving to a smaller city or town. Visiting for a week or two, yes, but not settling there. My wife wants exactly that - a small house in a town with a couple of cats and dogs, fields, trees, garden and a white picket fence. Looks great when I picture it, but not my cup of tea.

I'll give you 1 argument in your favour against your wife. My aunt was a professor and with all her savings she built her dream house in a village with a lot of land and trees and whatever she desired, Then she had a major health scare 3 years into her retirement - local health facilities were inadequate - we had to bring her to Kolkata overnight. Too proud to permanently settle with her siblings, she had to sell her house in distress (buyers for large houses in distant village are not easy to find and local moneyed people tend to lowball) and spent the last 15 years of her life in damp dinghy 2 bedroom flat in Kolkata. This for someone who spent 35 years as a professor and earned quite well.

Don't underestimate healthcare needs if you are looking at Tier 2/3. Kerala would be much better, but in Bengal / Assam / MP this can be a major factor.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Numbers floating here is really scary for people like me!

I am in my early 40s and our average monthly expense is 50K (6L per annum), if we add a buffer of 20% it becomes 7.2L per annum. Do we need a huge corpus of 5, 10, 15 Crores to retire? or Can't we even think of retirement?

With an expense of 720,000 kept at a constant for the next 35 years the amount one would need is 25,200,000 today to retire. This doesn’t even consider inflation which is not in our control and life’s unexpected expenditures which one cannot predict.

Living a lower standard of life from what one is living today as per me is only possible if that person has no dependents (spouse, children, aging parents) because they too should be agreeable to it in the long run.

The number looks big from our current living standards but as the years pass by one will realise that the corpus is getting depleted at a-rate faster than one can imagine.

Our parents in the 80’s bought houses worth thousands or lacs never in crores so if they retired with 10,000,000 in the bank then you can make an educated guess how far would they have made it with that kind of money.

[Jaguar]

I was playing around with some online calculators and the corpus suggested by the tools is more if I state that I am single vs when I claim to be married, with all other factors kept the same. Was wondering why would that be. Does the tool think that I would spend less if I had a wife

Originally Posted by condor

A key point would be that the person be continually exposed to Tier-2 / Tier-3 cities over the years. Folks born in metro's/Tier-1 cities will likely find it difficult to move out, both for life-style related reasons and social environment+support.

This is very true. Even if one somehow adjusts to the lifestyle, what about social support? Just the past week, I was in my hometown, a big city in Kerala. I don't have a single friend there anymore. Almost all of my school/college mates have moved abroad or to cities like Bangalore. The same is the case with relatives. The only known people left are senior-citizen neighbors and relatives who shuttle between their kids and hometown. If I were to retire today and move back, I would be bored in no time. Nor would I have anyone for support in case of any emergency. Not sure what would the condition be the condition when I am of retirement age in a decade or so.

Originally Posted by Latheesh

That is my average expense for the last 3.5 years in a Tier 2 city in Kerala. This does not include rent (have own house) or big ticket expenses.

I feel one should include the big ticket items too when planning expenses for retirement. Not things like kids' education or marriage, but stuff like house maintenance, white goods, travel, and even a new car. If one is looking at a 20+ year retired life, all these would be needed even if you stay in your own house.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you @vijaykr. Best wishes to you. My two paisa worth again. Like a cranky old man I talk {write} too much!:-)

And to all the youngsters out there in their 40s and 30s a well planned retirement can actually give you the best years of your life - you have the energy to do whatever floats your boat and no boss, shareholder, banker, unhappy customer or Govt jo-jo to bother about.

So true:
1. During your career you’re only considered to be as good as your visiting card.
2. After you retire into obscurity, you’re only considered to be as good as your Bank Balance so best make sure you build a healthy one.
3.Therefore it is best to be prepared to be alone for long periods sans the props of an office and team and ‘buzz’.
4.It is a good idea to cultivate multiple hobbies.
And indeed, all this idyllic preaching about Tier 2 and 3 cities etc sounds nice but for a Metro Resident it is near impossible to practice. Because it will mean that suddenly all the ‘options’ that one is used to, in including but not limited to entertainment, social outlets and medical facilities, in a Metro city, will mostly vanish completely when one moves to a Tier 2 or 3 town. This truth can be both socially stultifying and cause terrible claustrophobia.

Look before you Leap.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

And indeed, all this idyllic preaching about Tier 2 and 3 cities etc sounds nice but for a Metro Resident it is near impossible to practice.

Why do you think it's preaching? Couldn't it just be a different point of view?

Again, I totally get that there are very good reasons for people to stay in a big city. But taking my own example, I was born and raised in Bangalore and I'm quite ok to leave. Nothing against what will always be my 'hometown', I have a great life here. If I had to stay in city in India, it would have to be Bangalore.

But apart from the job and what are my prime earning years (and with remote work, not even for that reason), I have nothing to bind me to the place anymore. Family was never here anyway, since my parents were the first to move to Bangalore in the 70s. Friends are very busy with their own lives and thanks to the amazing traffic, meetings have to be planned in advance anyway. Also, as a reasonably fit person just entering middle-age, I find it hard enough to get around, can't imagine trying as a 60 or 70-year old!

Have already posted earlier about the difference in expenses between Bangalore and a couple of other smaller towns I've lived for an extended period at. It's really significant. That means what I save will just last that much longer. And perhaps I don't have to give up more of the healthier years of my life having to accumulate so much more to retire.

Sure in Bangalore I enjoy/spend a lot more on diversions and entertainment. But here's the thing- during the months (cumulatively years) I've spent in those smaller towns, I don't feel the need for those 'big city diversions'. I've realized that they are required to cope/manage with living in a big city in the first place.

Healthcare, again I've posted earlier that I'd rather live happily in a peaceful place than be forced to live in city on the chance that I'll need to rush to a hospital someday. And am willing to accept the inevitable if that happens. I have a friend who forced her elderly parents to move in with her to the city where she works so she could keep an eye on them and they took up a big house near a hospital for that reason. No existing illnesses, "just in case". She has to pay significantly more for that, and both of them are miserable to have moved from their peaceful town. So for whom was it done? I realize this is a one-off case, but it change my way of thinking about this point. Again, just different things for different people, that's all.

Status because of job title/bank balance/area I live in- I'm not saying it doesn't matter to people, it does. But fortunately I've always been lucky to have a spouse and a group of good friends who were happy to know me when I was definitely nobody in college and in my early 20s, and will treat me the same no matter who I 'become'. That's enough for me to be secure enough to not care what anyone else thinks.

Finally, the spouse also agrees! Especially after both of us have seen how our childhood neighborhoods in the respective big cities we grew up in have become so much more crowded, polluted, and harder to live in.

Again, all this is just my pov/opinion, and I realize a lot of it is because of my situation (no kids, no ambition ) but I think it's definitely something some of us can consider. A choice to exchange/trade a different way of life for some years back not spent chasing a vast retirement corpus. Just a different opinion without putting down what the majority are correctly following for their individual situations/requirements, that's all.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Most of us who extoll the virtues of the simple life and greenery and tier 2 and 3 honestly have no idea about actually living there day to day, month on month, year on year, decade after decade.

Agreed, and this is something we need to try out first. (Personally, have had that chance, have done it (not in the rose-tinted past, but on an ongoing, recent basis) and am looking forward to the day I can make it permanent.)

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Why do you think it's preaching? Couldn't it just be a different point of view?

Again, all this is just my pov/opinion, and I realize a lot of it because of my situation (no kids, no ambition ) but I think it's definitely something some of us can consider.

I have lived in faraway and isolated places most of my growing up years because of my Father’s posting. I also went to school in a quiet place. It was absolutely idyllic for sure. I loved it. Even now, I look back only with Rose Tinted Glasses. Always! But then when harsh reality bites, like medical stuff and all that, it is very hard to reconcile. In such situations, Isolation = Desolation.

For us who live in cities the grass is always greener in the rural areas and vice versa for those who live in rural areas.

Most of us who extoll the virtues of the simple life and greenery and tier 2 and 3 honestly have no idea about actually living there day to day, month on month, year on year, decade after decade.

I think that as I said before, those of us who live in larger towns and cities often forget the fact that we have so many options at our beck and call, which we take for granted. We will definitely miss all of those things if we move away. Some of us can take that while some of us cannot.

Me, I belong to the latter group.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by am1m

Family was never here anyway, since my parents were the first to move to Bangalore in the 70s. ........


a couple of other smaller towns I've lived for an extended period at.....

IMO, the post retirement social life is likely to revolve around attending family events of close friends or relatives. Events such as milestone birthdays (1st, 50th, 60th, 80th), house-warmings etc i.e. ones which probably one may not attend if it occurred in a different city. Therefore, the ideal city for me to live in would be where I would have such a "social" life. In my case, this would be Bangalore or Chennai.

However, I see no reason to pay a hefty rent and live in a crowded, noisy city areas. I see my post retirement life would be living in a rented apartment, a little away from the city; for example, a complex which is "15-minutes-drive-from-Electronics-City" (as the real estate companies would say ) would be fitting.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

I see my post retirement life would be living in a rented apartment, a little away from the city; for example, a complex which is "15-minutes-drive-from-Electronics-City"

Haha, careful about how this city grows. What is the outskirts today will be a CBD in 20 years! But with the expanding Metro, it will be possible to live far away and use it on the occasions one needs to get to the city areas. I really can't imagine driving anywhere in my 60s and 70s, I avoid using the car as much as possible even these days!

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by am1m

But with the expanding Metro, it will be possible to live far away and use it on the occasions one needs to get to the city areas. I really can't imagine driving anywhere in my 60s and 70s....

Yes, right. But on the other hand, when you have plenty of time an occasional BMTC ride to a Bommasandra or Challagata metro station would also be a pleasure. The Bangalore suburban rail may also be a reality by then .

[kavensri]

Originally Posted by am1m

Why do you think it's preaching? Couldn't it just be a different point of view?

.....

I can 100% resonate with what you have written here. I also think that we both have so much of 'commonalities' in the way we think.
I just want to reiterate some more proof points from my side.
I have already constructed a house in this 'tier-2' city that I am referring to, 10 years back. Even my complete education was done around that place. All the extended family of my sister stays in and around this place. And I am pretty close to my sister family. My spouse is also 100 co-operative with this plan and in fact, she is even more for it than me!
I know how comfortable my sister and her family have been living there and also their extended families. So I do not see any reason for me to think that I will be missing Bengaluru after I move out.
Once again, I am posting this here, the cost of living is less than 1/3rd of what I spend here for the same life style. Of course, it depends on one's life style also.
The only thing that i will be missing there will be 'good hospitals'. But again, as you have mentioned in your message, I fully agree with your thought process and I am fully aware of the consequences as well.

[kap04]

I started investing 10k per year in an ICICI pension plan around 19 years back ( was helping a relative to achieve his target) This policy matures in Feb 2024. The invested amount is 1.9 lacs and the current value is around 7.4 lacs. I have 2 options - either opt for annuity now ( which I don't prefer as I'm 46 years old now and I'd prefer to get it around when I am 60 years old), OR you can postpone the annuity.
33% of this amount you can withdraw ( taxable) and the rest would provide the annuity, or you can opt annuity on the whole sum.

I have been getting many service calls from ICICI people which i have been evading. Recently, i had met one of them and they suggested moving this amount to another ULIP plan. I told him i am no more interested in ULIP plans. Are there any other options i can look at or should I just postpone the annuity for the next 14 years and forget about it for now?

[Gaur]

Originally Posted by kavensri

I know how comfortable my sister and her family have been living there and also their extended families. So I do not see any reason for me to think that I will be missing Bengaluru after I move out.
Once again, I am posting this here, the cost of living is less than 1/3rd of what I spend here for the same life style. Of course, it depends on one's life style also.
The only thing that i will be missing there will be 'good hospitals'. But again, as you have mentioned in your message, I fully agree with your thought process and I am fully aware of the consequences as well.

Most of us forget that there are much more people in India living in Tier2/3 cities/villages compare to people in Tier 1.

My extended family is based in a Tier 3 city which has almost all facilities baring highend healthcare and higher education, there are multiple good schools upto 12th after that most kids looking for good education move out.

You can travel from one end to the other in 15 minutes, no more electricity issues, swiggy,zomato, flipkart,amazon, bigbasket all available. Overall law and order improved.
There is a Ola showroom as well that opened up few months back, all major car manufacturers have their showroom/service along the same road.

I see my family members living a more relaxed and enjoyable life overall, currently due to wedding season i hear they attend a function every other day mostly, what else do you need more ?

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

And indeed, all this idyllic preaching about Tier 2 and 3 cities etc sounds nice but for a Metro Resident it is near impossible to practice. Because it will mean that suddenly all the ‘options’ that one is used to, in including but not limited to entertainment, social outlets and medical facilities, in a Metro city, will mostly vanish completely when one moves to a Tier 2 or 3 town. This truth can be both socially stultifying and cause terrible claustrophobia.

Look before you Leap.

Not really hard to imagine. Folks (late 20s & early 30s) in my wife's side of family have moved back from Bangalore to Mangalore (areas far outside the main city) and Kerala. One of our fellow Bangalorean bhpian (don't want to mention his id) has moved from Bangalore to Mysore permanently - you can see posts by him on some of the relevant threads. Many of my friends (mid 30s & 40s) have built houses in their hometowns with plans to move there in next decade or two. Another close friends of ours have moved from Mumbai to Tirunelveli, after spending over 10 years of their professional experience in that city. They have no plan of returning and happily settled there.

It's possible. And actively being leveraged by many across all age groups. Each of these have their own reasons; the same among my extended family and above friends are varying case to case basis.

Originally Posted by am1m

Why do you think it's preaching? Couldn't it just be a different point of view?
.Agreed, and this is something we need to try out first. (Personally, have had that chance, have done it (not in the rose-tinted past, but on an ongoing, recent basis) and am looking forward to the day I can make it permanent.)

Would be interesting to hear about your experience in a separate thread if you can.

Originally Posted by Gaur

I see my family members living a more relaxed and enjoyable life overall, currently due to wedding season i hear they attend a function every other day mostly, what else do you need more ?

+1 to this.