[clementj]

During the pandemic, when online learning became the go-to option to keep children engaged, I, too, enrolled my daughter in a trial class for the WhiteHat Jr. coding program. The extensive marketing campaigns highlighting young children developing and publishing apps, winning awards, left me questioning my parenting choices and feeling like an inadequate parent. The trial class seemed solely intended to showcase exceptional talent in children and lead parents to believe they were not adequately nurturing their child's potential. Byju's offered pre-paid packages of 20, 50, or 100 classes, some costing up to 50k.

In reality, their platform was no different from others, offering a basic online curriculum with embedded video conferencing and utilizing publicly available drag-and-drop tools that didn't truly teach programming or anything substantial. They incessantly pursued me with calls, touting scholarships and emphasizing my child's extraordinary abilities. I was almost swayed, but it took my 8-year-old daughter's clear-headed refusal to convince me otherwise. Ironically, I was a co-founder of a startup with a mobile-first platform and extensive knowledge of app development, yet their tactics nearly ensnared me.

I had a similar experience when I downloaded and tried the Byju's Early Learn app for my 3-year-old son. Within days, I was bombarded with calls urging me to purchase their tablet for around 30k, insisting that my son was excelling on the app and that I was missing out on his potential. I had to repeatedly explain that he was only 3 years old and could hardly use the app consistently. I blocked their numbers one after another and used apps like Truecaller to avoid potential spam.

It's not that educational technology is inherently ineffective, as my children enjoy and benefit from apps like Khan Academy and Khan Academy Kids, which offer excellent content to complement their school learning. However, Byju's seems to have taken an approachwith unsustainable marketing practices that border on harassment.

With only 3% of the Indians falling under the upper middle class bracket, the ethical dilemma always has existed and was exploited. Hope the company pivots, transforms itself with a set of ethics and values that it will stick to and stop preying on the fears and aspirations of Indian parents.

[arnabbhagabati]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is victim blaming. Byju's mostly targeted uninformed lower middle class parents who are very anxious about their kid's future. VN gave an example of how his cook almost fell for it. They would even warn the parents that anyone advising them against Byju's program doesn't want their kids to succeed.

Totally agree with this. Lets avoid victim shaming.
Just like we cannot expect every child to be prodigy, we cannot expect poor parents desperately looking for a ticket to better life for their child to be always smart enough to detect scams.

Originally Posted by bhphog

Disclaimer:
2. Were Byju's employees and salespeople evil?
- NO.
- While today most of us are fortunate enough to have necessities fulfilled, many don't.
- Do you think it was fancy college graduates working in Byjus? No. They were people from the economically weaker section of society and for them to earn 30-40k/month was far more than a dream that they ever saw.
- You may ask why these employees didn't choose a different job. Well, not everyone is fortunate like us to know English, use a PC, or even have formal education till 12th standard. For many, 'speaking' is what feeds the mouth in their family. And thus, sales and customer support, BPOs.

I worked a little bit in sales long time back, and I can relate to this. Before we start blaming BYJU's employees, lets remember that most of them are just trying to fend for their family with whatever job they can get. Could they have worked in a more ethical job for a lower salary? Yes. But remember that a job that pays 15k more means a world to a family surviving on 30k in a city like Bangalore. (numbers are just examples, i don't know what BYJU pays)

Originally Posted by sudeepg

I still wonder, why are the employees still working there, risking their career and salaries?

At least the ones in the software engineering division there are just stuck because the market is bad, and there are hardly any openings to switch.

The day I heard that BYJU acquired Whitehat Jr, I realized that that company has no morals left. BYJU may have started with good intentions, but Whitehat Jr was born without conscience from the depths of greed and malice

[Raghu M]

I think Byju's or for that matter any startup is failing because of the valuation scam. You just start and they say the company is valued at certain billions. How is that even logical? Byju's went only after nos. I have friends who have worked there. The sales targets were ridiculous. The unethical methods did not start during the pandemic, it was the (I should say) USP of the company almost since it started.

The guy (Byju) was a simple fellow who did online (video conferencing) coaching to CAT aspirants and made decent money. While the aspiration to grow rich and be big is natural, the methods that were chosen aren't. He has no experience in running a company. He and his friends (co-founders) just went after acquisitions to take monopoly of the market. I don't have any empathy for the company but feel bad for the employees. I mean you can rope in Messi as the brand ambassador but not pay salaries to your employees? That to me is a huge red flag for any company. That was not even a few years ago, it was hardly an year ago. The books were rigged, parents lied to and the notorious credit card scam where the repeat billing could not be just deactivated took down the company.

[DrCar]

One day while walking on the railway skywalk bridge in Goregaon (Mumbai), I saw a group of atleast 15 Byju's executives trying to woo the young kids (some of whom would be around age 16).

I was extremely angry at that time, as this crooks were directly selling their products to the kids (who are brainwashed at such a tender age) , instead of going through their parents. The same day I wished that this fraud company should fall down on its knees. This was a white collar terrorism. (Brainwashing both kids and parents).

I am very happy that this is coming to an end. Hope rules and regulations are tightened further, so that such parasitic companies don't crop up again.

[glovins2004]

Well, I thought I’m the only victim but not surprised though.

Remember a brief call with Biju’s representative few moths’ back, I felt like a conversation between villain and a victim straight out of a gangster movie.

I’m reporting this incident to Mr Denzel Washington for Equalizer 4

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by bhphog

Byjus started with a noble concept.
It started with the K-12 segment and then the Test Prep segment but never into the Upskilling segment.

Wasn't the GreatLakes acquisition targeted for upskilling segment?

Originally Posted by Raghu M

I think Byju's or for that matter any startup is failing because of the valuation scam. You just start and they say the company is valued at certain billions. How is that even logical? Byju's went only after nos. I have friends who have worked there. The sales targets were ridiculous. The unethical methods did not start during the pandemic, it was the (I should say) USP of the company almost since it started.

The guy (Byju) was a simple fellow who did online (video conferencing) coaching to CAT aspirants and made decent money.

I too agree with Raghu M. I remember Byju's running the CAT training in 2002/2003 from a single class room in Koramangala opposite Forum.

Even much later, he was having sessions in hotels and stadiums in other cities - again targeting CAT aspirants. It was only in the last 10-12 years, they hopped on to the multimedia wagon and took things online. Then I think VCs onboarded and Byju's started aggressive ( and unethical ) means to increase sales and valuations targeting school kids. They also went after acquisitions trying to become a monopoly.

I am not supporting the founder in any way. He should have known where to draw the line.

[naikameya]

Originally Posted by arnabbhagabati

I worked a little bit in sales long time back, and I can relate to this. Before we start blaming BYJU's employees, lets remember that most of them are just trying to fend for their family with whatever job they can get. Could they have worked in a more ethical job for a lower salary? Yes. But remember that a job that pays 15k more means a world to a family surviving on 30k in a city like Bangalore. (numbers are just examples, i don't know what BYJU pays)

Agree... While I do not advocate, when it comes to fending for basic living, moralities become luxuries, and one may not be able to objectively identify what is ethical and what is not.

My hypothesis is that Byju's hired sales and employees with less shiny credentials precisely to push parents into shelling out money for so-called education that doesn't deliver any value. Taking out nobility from that profession completely.
And this is where I find such businesses to be shady. With great power comes great responsibility.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by bhphog

Comparatively, Yes.
Yes, there were instances of mis selling and unethical practices but not company wide.
And these were instances at an individual sales representative levels due to high commissions.

Byjus has always had a strong legal setup like most companies and while this has come in the light and may seem bad but this is a standard market practice.

Nopes, not standard across reputable startup (and/or established) firms that are operating well in the Indian market. In fact, it's only standard across companies with a similar bad rep as Byjus.

I am not saying this is the entire fault of the victims or the sales rep but it is a mixture of both, the naivety of the parents + the cunningness of the sale rep.

Every scam that occurs in the world will have a "naïve" individual at one end. It doesn't prevent the scamming activity being called a scam. The scamming tactics by Byjus is well understood by one and all. And it was not only by the sales representatives; the whole company operated on those principles and tactics; and thrived on it.

[d.w.w.]

Originally Posted by naikameya

... education that doesn't deliver any value. ..

I agree on the unfair business ethics, but I disagree on this point. The problem here is every kid is unique and each of them have their unique styles to learn. What byjus did was to come up with one-size-fits-all solution which works for only a fraction of the kids, a fraction that was not enough to bring revenues they were expecting. My wife is into teaching and according to her the materials that they provide is very good, but only for the right student. (My BIL fell in the trap during covid, they no longer use it and he ships the materials to us now. I went through some and found it to be good) When byjus realized this mistake, they tried to exploit parents by selling false dreams and many fell for it.

[greyhound82]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

And it was not only by the sales representatives; the whole company operated on those principles and tactics; and thrived on it.

The management knew what they were doing when they decided to take down the LinkedIn accounts of activists who were vocal about their predatory practices. It was a strategy and not an outlier. The Khan Academy took the best route by going non-profit and that made it a collaborative platform. With the advent of generative AI, Byju’s will find it difficult to defend their model. Creating animations for something very structured like math and science is going to be easier. Language and Video models are going to disrupt the learning experience soon

[am1m]

Education will always be a happy-hunting ground for scammers in India. It's nothing new, just the scale and number of unfortunate parents who fall for the scams grows exponentially.

Way back in the early 90s, there was this charming scammer who waltzed through the top schools in Bangalore 'identifying gifted children' on behalf of some US-based education company. Then all the parents shelled out a handy sum for some totally worthless 'advanced' study material so their kids could 'reach their full potential'.

The tuition classes that the unqualified neighborhood 'uncle/aunty' provides, all those IIT coaching classes, the 'divine ponytail' of MBA education whose company paid mega bollywood celebs for full-page advertising in every national newspaper (who in turn couldn't expose him because of the ad spend!) and filed cases against critics in a remote NE court so people couldn't realistically fight back. All part of the same.

Byju's is just the latest and greatest in this long line that stretches way back to at least my childhood in the 90s. Hope they get what they deserve, but I think even if the company winds down, he'll get away with his personal fortune.

[Ays7]

I have a cousin who works with Educational NGO’s and her job role was to design educational programmes and computer literacy in rural areas based on Corporate fundings.

Having worked in this sector for over 7 years, she wanted to switch to a corporate side and had an interview with Byju’s. She was interviewed over multiple rounds and she was led to believe that her role was a “Parent Counsellor” and she was supposed to be counselling parents about how they can educate their kids better - she would have coordinate with parents and doubt solvers in various subjects that the kids were having doubt in. She was offered a salary that was considerably higher than what she was making.

She asked me for advice, and I told her that this looks more like a sales job and has nothing to do with education. She went back to the last person who interviewed her and he confirmed that there would be “some element of sales” attached to the job.

The funny thing is, this was her 5th round of interview and the term sales was not mentioned earlier. No clue was given that she would have to be doing any kind of sales.

Needless to say she refused the offer. I do not know if this is a standard practice, but seems like people are being mislead at the time of recruitment itself and no clarity is being given over what the actual role of the person would be.

To me, it was clear that this is a company that is pushing sales by any and all means necessary and burdening parents with unnecessary packages that their kids may not even need.

[xcentrk]

Originally Posted by bhphog

I am not saying this is the entire fault of the victims or the sales rep but it is a mixture of both, the naivety of the parents + the cunningness of the sale rep.
Somebody comes to my house and tells me my kid is stupid will not go back without a black eye.
I have full empathy with the victims.

I didn't wanted to reply here but this one made me.

The same logic can be applied to every other scam or crime. Be it robbery, rape or anything else, because someone naive trusted someone so the crime occured.

It is high time we teach everyone not to cheat naive or gullible people. In my line of work, if I want, I can dump high priced products for naive customers but, I never pushed anything. I list out every pros and cons and let them decide. In fact most of our hardware sales are lower to mid range models and only those high end shops/cash rich customers/hotels purchase top of the line models. We even sell used products for those who cannot afford new. As an individual I never wanted to push a product which the customer may not need. That's my ethics and that's how I still do my business.

If someone tells their kid is stupid and with some training he can be good, every parent will think about it. We are not talking about uneducated parents here. Some of the Byjus customers are well educated and still they end up falling for the trap. All they wanted was their kid to be good. And if someone uses this vulnerability to their advantage, that is pure scamming in my opinion.

It's up to individuals, us, to decide whether to be a part of scam or not. My cousin got cheated by Byju's rep and based on his promise, he tested the product and since it wasn't as good as they promised and his kid didn't liked it, he called back the rep for 30-day refund guarantee. Since then he stopped picking his call and now he end up paying emi for 50k bajaj loan for something which his kid is not using. Did the sales rep go on to proceed refund, that is different. This is the difference between real sales and scam.

Just don't ever use naive or gullible people as reason because all of us here think we know everything but we are also getting cheated by somewhere. We just don't know that. So we teach our kids, friends, neighbors and relatives about the value and ethics and let them take the right path.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by bhphog

- You may ask why these employees didn't choose a different job. Well, not everyone is fortunate like us to know English, use a PC, or even have formal education till 12th standard. For many, 'speaking' is what feeds the mouth in their family. And thus, sales and customer support, BPOs.

- Reference - We cut the calls of a credit card agent within the first second of them introducing themselves, do you know they make 500+ calls a day, listen to rejection the whole day, being abused only to make 9-10k a month?
- Sitting in our comfortable homes, I truly think making statements like 'he deserved the salary cut' is uncalled for. Be empathetic, it costs nothing.

There is no justification for intrusive telemarketing. I am getting around 20 calls on a daily basis from these people. Agree that they may be paid pittance. But that does not give a license to disturb people at odd times.

There were reports of a panipuri wala making 5000rs a day. But most low level white collar jobs will earn pittance. So it is the mindset which has to change.

We don't need to justify everything for the sake of doing it. Byju's was destined to fall due to their own making and arrogance.

[SidTheChamp]

If he could clock back in time, Byju Ravindran should just be helding classes, teach students to prepare for competitive exams and make decent amount of money.

He tried to grow 10x times beyond what is possible growth and paid the price. This resulted in bad marketing practised and negative publicity.

It's a bit like Yes Bank where the owner gave huge loans at a high rate of interest. Had the loans were paid, yes Bank would be voted the best bank of India as all of its remaining services were very good. But he tried to grow exponentially, the result is seen.

Another scam where the vulnerable people were made victims is the insurance scam mainly ICICI prudential. In many states, to meet the target they would dupe people stating false claims investing in FD and then sign a insurance policy instead with annual premiums. Because of non payment of premiums they lost money because of rogue agents