[CaliAtenza]

I was listening to President Obama's speech today, about gun control and he was talking about one of the children killed at Sandy Hook. He talked about that little girl as if she was his own daughter. Hell, he talked about all the victims as if he was their father.

Back here in India you have the PM, a very respectable man by no doubts, wait for i dunno what it was, 3 days?? To issue a statement and that too he says "Teek hai" at the end of it?? Come on, he represents the largest democracy in the world. It just boggles the mind that these are the people who are representing us. Granted we have "put them there", but still. This girl was raped and assualted in New Delhi, the capital, and he couldnt say something as soon as the outrage started??? What did the government have to lose? Thats my question in all of this.

[sa_kiran]

If I remember correctly, Gen VK Singh's birth/school certificate was not considered as proof of age and he was forced to fight an ugly battle in the court. I suppose this was considered for the rapist and then referred to bone density test to determine the age. So, much for serving the army/country for over 30 years.

Anil Kumble recently contested the process of determining ages of cricketers. The point is that this method is not reliable. However, courts admit it. At the same time, narco analysis is not reliable and courts don't admit it. Why? Because some big names have been revealed in narco analysis!

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by carboy

I didn't apply any logic whatsoever. I was stating a fact.

Originally Posted by carboy

You asked a meaningless question. I responded to it saying it's meaningless. From then on, instead of meaningless stuff, you have started replying to my posts with stuff not relevant to whatever I have written. My last answer to you on this.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Meaningless to you, I get it. My apologies for wasting your time.

It would help if some logic were to be applied. Or at least some sensitivity. Society or nations are not built by thinking in the manner of a process flowchart. I dont think anybody here is asking for a reminder of how lousy our systems are or just an ostrich-head-in-the-sand situation saying this is how it is and the accused is not guilty till proven so. We all know the process. But we also say justice delayed is justice denied. this is the main grouse that people have. So I think it is time to stop repeating the same thing for any and every post.

"What they did to her was so inhuman, I can't understand it." says the mother of the victim
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...mother_1788340

And yes, even the law in India recognises some cases as the rarest of rare. Such cases definitely need to be fast tracked, even if it is at the risk of delay to other cases. Considering the brutality involved, if a majority of people think this should be fast tracked it should be. Even our elections are decided by majority, isnt it?

Chetan,_Rao, your query is quite revealing. Why ask for rights for people who deny other people basic rights? Very well said. In some countries (at least that I know of) convicts with such histories are tagged and monitored. This may or may not eliminate all cases, but even the history sheeter knows he has not gotten away scot free and is being watched. I know the case you talk of and I am sure there will be some (demanding human rights for inhumane people) who will come back and say its meaningless. Or they will ask for a list of countries where this happens. Or something else which is really 'meaningful'.

[_raVan_]

Fast track court announced for the case. Starts from 21st Jan.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/18061753.cms

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

It would help if some logic were to be applied. Or at least some sensitivity. Society or nations are not built by thinking in the manner of a process flowchart. I dont think anybody here is asking for a reminder of how lousy our systems are or just an ostrich-head-in-the-sand situation saying this is how it is and the accused is not guilty till proven so. We all know the process. But we also say justice delayed is justice denied. this is the main grouse that people have. So I think it is time to stop repeating the same thing for any and every post.

"What they did to her was so inhuman, I can't understand it." says the mother of the victim
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...mother_1788340

And yes, even the law in India recognises some cases as the rarest of rare. Such cases definitely need to be fast tracked, even if it is at the risk of delay to other cases. Considering the brutality involved, if a majority of people think this should be fast tracked it should be. Even our elections are decided by majority, isnt it?

Chetan,_Rao, your query is quite revealing. Why ask for rights for people who deny other people basic rights? Very well said. In some countries (at least that I know of) convicts with such histories are tagged and monitored. This may or may not eliminate all cases, but even the history sheeter knows he has not gotten away scot free and is being watched. I know the case you talk of and I am sure there will be some (demanding human rights for inhumane people) who will come back and say its meaningless. Or they will ask for a list of countries where this happens. Or something else which is really 'meaningful'.

Appreciate your response

I wasn't looking for an argument, just giving vent to thoughts.

Laws were made by humans amongst us to regulate and administer society and our nation as a whole. If found insufficient, it's our duty to update them, instead of bemoaning their inability to deliver justice, or blindly believing in a system that has so often and so terribly failed to protect us.

Fighting brutality with brutality will only lead to anarchy, and will not solve anything in the long term. We need to think of what will actually make us better, not just make us feel better for a short while.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Appreciate your response

I wasn't looking for an argument, just giving vent to thoughts.

Laws were made by humans amongst us to regulate and administer society and our nation as a whole. If found insufficient, it's our duty to update them, instead of bemoaning their inability to deliver justice, or blindly believing in a system that has so often and so terribly failed to protect us.

Fighting brutality with brutality will only lead to anarchy, and will not solve anything in the long term. We need to think of what will actually make us better, not just make us feel better for a short while.

The thing is, in addition to updating the laws, the enforcement needs to be there. Thats the problem here, there is little to no enforcement . If the police forces cannot do their jobs, why cant they ask for help? Or would they rather rob from us common people and not do their jobs?

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

If the police forces cannot do their jobs, why cant they ask for help?

Well, the issue is people who can act don't listen to police. For instance, police have been demanding separating law & order from VIP security. That has not happened for a long time.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by _raVan_

Fast track court announced for the case. Starts from 21st Jan.

Oh yes. This is like getting a highspeed train to travel on ordinary tracks for half of the journey and then move it to the highspeed track that it performs well on. Better late than never I guess.
But with all the brutality and uproar, why did it take so much time to fast track the case? In fact it should have been fast tracked before any demands in the first place.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Fighting brutality with brutality will only lead to anarchy, and will not solve anything in the long term. We need to think of what will actually make us better, not just make us feel better for a short while.

Yes, what needs to be done later is only corrective action in this case. But if this is done well, it can become preventive action for a lot of other possible cases in the future.
With the link, all I intend to point out is the inhumane and barbaric nature of the accused. In such cases, why expect any human rights for such people. Try them and give them exemplary punishment. Lock them up for life and give them community service. Actually these are the kind of people who need to be discriminated against. Not those of supposedly lower caste or class. Acts and deeds should be treated as the new categorisations, not birth.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Well, the issue is people who can act don't listen to police. For instance, police have been demanding separating law & order from VIP security. That has not happened for a long time.

VIP's other than the PM, Prez, and the Cabinet do not need security. Really, they don't and it's ridiculous that they expect it

[neerajpv87]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/delhi-rape-...071313247.html

Manohar Lal Sharma, a 56-year-old Supreme Court advocate, said the victim's friend was responsible for the attack as the couple should not have ventured out on the streets at night.
Blaming the victim's friend, Manohar told The New York Times: 'This all happened because of the lust of the boy. This is the boy who should be hanged. He's responsible for everything. He should be punished.'

I wonder what's the qualification required for a Supreme Court Advocate?! I guess every Tom and Harry can become one.

IMO, This advocate deserves to be hanged!

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by neerajpv87

http://in.news.yahoo.com/delhi-rape-...071313247.html



I wonder what's the qualification required for a Supreme Court Advocate?! I guess every Tom and Harry can become one.

IMO, This advocate deserves to be hanged!

the guy is a total idiot . Moreover, how the hell does he plan to prove any of that in court?? Yes, Dont hang the rapists and murderers, but hang the guy who was accompanying her and tried to defend her. Really, really? This is what passes for lawyers in the Indian Republic

[carbookie]

The recent media circus over this case has led to now media shouting rape at every damn case without checking facts. A girl found dead- claim gang rape. A women lodges a complaint against auto for harassment - claim molestation.

Just two examples. Of media shouting rape rape
Rape again in Mumbai: Four-year-old raped in school bus by cleaner
Passenger gang-raped, killed, hanged from a tree
and then just a day later realizing the truth.
Police wrongly charge man for rape
Bihar woman found hanging from tree not gang-raped: Autopsy

In Punjab alone, there have been 10 instances of false rape cases after the candle marches started in Delhi.

Just one day back, Punjabi media went nuts over a case called bathinda rape case. Here is the news. The demand for swift justice, hanging of rapists had started when the truth came out. The girl was lying. Read thist

Why I am mentioning all this on the thread of Delhi rape case. Stop victimizing the victims and perpetrators and police and judicial system. Let the investigations happen. Let the law do its work. Vigilantism is only detrimental to the system.

[drsingh]

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

The system is not trained to investigate crimes against women objectively. Lack of respect for privacy.throwing names (victim or alleged perp). Feeding the media frenzy with half baked stories.... its a very sad state of affairs..

Genuine complaints don't have a fool proof way to get the required attention...


And there is a severe lack of forensic specialists too..

[manolin]

The Justice Verma committee report is out. I am presently on Chapter 1, but the introduction/scope of the report section is so beautifully written, that I would go ahead and recommend people to read it - considering that the discussions in this thread (and outside) have been for summary justice to handed out.

You can download the report here.

[raghu.t.k]

Slightly OT :
Why dont we see the courts banning anything these days, given that the logic for banning tints was to prevent such incidents. Using the same logic we should be seeing a spate of bans including the Police, bureaucracy, the MPs. MLAs and members of many a political parties who have been chargesheeted, and taking it to an extreme the male gender..!!

Had the courts taken a stern view of the issue and directed the government and the police to perform better, we might have atleast reduced if not prevented such incidents.