[Samurai]

https://youtu.be/wfwF0_VqWXE

[fhdowntheline]

I think we are at a stage where we can potentially reach a developed nation status if
1) We regulate economic activity auch that it balances with conservation of natural resources.
2) We put huge emphasis on point 1 through indigenous research ,development and innovation instead of playing the " western boiler plate, UN driven" themes. Its high time for industry and academia to make strong collaborative actions beyond tokenism. Government must facilitate in every way.
3) Get the youth to toughen up physically and mentally . Young people have become too soft, for the lack of better words. They are unable to take even small setbacks. This is perhaps an unfortunate outcome of western wokeism . There was an innate resilience built into the society lets say up to the generation born till early 80s. Most of us have parents who always had things the hard way. Their parents, even more so. Thats no longer the case. Its a whole topic of its own, but there will be huge economic consequences.

[apachelongbow]

You are not middle class if:
You own multiple cars and bikes in your family
You live in a gated community, You drink bottled water, You afford to visit high end restaurants regularly, shop in high end stores on a regular basis.
You have your children in good schools. You can take multiple international vacations per year
You are a double income no kids family. Your parents have enough resources as to not depend on your income
You own multiple properties, investments, jewelry and have a regular investment plan in place.


One must watch this series on Youtube where in people with 50/60/90 lakh salaries have almost zero savings. It's really an eye opener on what's called a lifestyle bloat.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I think we are at a stage where we can potentially reach a developed nation status if
1) We regulate economic activity auch that it balances with conservation of natural resources.
2) We put huge emphasis on point 1 through indigenous research ,development and innovation instead of playing the " western boiler plate, UN driven" themes. Its high time for industry and academia to make strong collaborative actions beyond tokenism. Government must facilitate in every way.
3) Get the youth to toughen up physically and mentally . Young people have become too soft, for the lack of better words. They are unable to take even small setbacks. This is perhaps an unfortunate outcome of western wokeism . There was an innate resilience built into the society lets say up to the generation born till early 80s. Most of us have parents who always had things the hard way. Their parents, even more so. Thats no longer the case. Its a whole topic of its own, but there will be huge economic consequences.

a) I keep saying this elsewhere and I will say it again, pollution is a competitive edge. Unless there is an economic penalty associated with pollution and wasteful consumption of natural resources, doing what you suggest is only going to slow down the wheels of economic growth.

b) what is your definition / western definition of "wokeism". I hear this term flung around quote liberally (pardon the pun) however, how does it affect the economic outcomes?

c) let me present alternative view about your point about new generation not used to resilience and being prepared for hard times: perhaps you are observing far too many well to do families earning >15-20 lakhs per annum per household who still consider themselves as middle class. These are fake middle class as mentioned by apachelongbow in his post above.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by alpha1

b) what is your definition / western definition of "wokeism". I hear this term flung around quote liberally (pardon the pun) however, how does it affect the economic outcomes?

c) let me present alternative view about your point about new generation not used to resilience and being prepared for hard times: perhaps you are observing far too many well to do families earning >15-20 lakhs per annum per household who still consider themselves as middle class. These are fake middle class as mentioned by apachelongbow in his post above.

Wokeism as I see it is a certain irreverance to wise counsel, norms or in plainspeak, having an activist mind without the necessary knowledge. This leads to incorrect notions about things that are right/ wrong and particularly fair/ unfair. It leads to a certain sense of entitlement without appreciation of the history/ efforts/ struggles. And ultimately affects resilience as one is unable to bear minor setbacks and challenges. And no this is not restricted to the so- called upper crest. It is slowly creeping down to every economic strata. Yes, the majority of the lower/ middle class youth are aspirational and motivated enough. But an increasing number are easily demotivated and spend time in frivolous pursuits.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

) Get the youth to toughen up physically and mentally . Young people have become too soft, for the lack of better words. They are unable to take even small setbacks. This is perhaps an unfortunate outcome of western wokeism . There was an innate resilience built into the society lets say up to the generation born till early 80s. Most of us have parents who always had things the hard way. Their parents, even more so. Thats no longer the case. Its a whole topic of its own, but there will be huge economic consequences.

For as long as there have been parents and kids, there have been parents with this view. It goes back to the Stone Age probably.

I don’t think it is true at all. I think it is these parents that have issues, by simply not recognising what a new generation brings in terms of doing things differently. They only want to emphasise the negative parts and have no eyes for different new and positive aspects of the young generation..

They focus on what the kids aren’t doing what they were doing or had to.

I have never ever understood the idea why leading a hard life would have made better individuals/generations? Whatever better means in this context.

Jeroen

[Chetan_Rao]

If anything, youth is increasingly more resilient, sensitive and inclusive than previous generations.

I always recommend people spare some time to go visit a govt. school in a far flung area away from their urban life. What you'll find, are kids who've evolved from accepting their station in life, to wanting to change theirs and their families', to wanting to lift their entire peer group and community up with them. It's a slow evolution, change doesn't happen overnight, and the kids chip away at it despite large hurdles: societal, familial, communal, economic, political, logistical, you name it.

Kids see injustices around them free of cynicism and personal protective filters adults naturally build over time, and kids no longer accept the way things are just because they've always been that way, or because their elders say so. Kids aren't afraid to ask difficult questions, stand up for each other when the adults won't, and push for change when the world around them wants to preserve status quo.

They may not be tough as nails by a certain definition, but they're hardy in ways unimaginable a generation or two ago. It's the modern-day adults who need to update their definitions, because the kids have evolved past them.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

If anything, youth is increasingly more resilient, sensitive and inclusive than previous generations.

I always recommend people spare some time to go visit a govt. school in a far flung area away from their urban life. What you'll find, are kids who've evolved from accepting their station in life, to wanting to change theirs and their families', to wanting to lift their entire peer group and community up with them.

+1. There is a perceptible difference between youth who grew up in smaller towns or in underdeveloped states like MP, Bihar, Chattisgarh vs youth who grew up in middle-class enclaves of metro cities. The former are very grounded yet hungry for success(MS Dhoni was a great example of this demographic). The latter feel entitled and likely to be woke.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

...and have no eyes for different new and positive aspects of the young generation..

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Kids aren't afraid to ask difficult questions...push for change when the world around them wants to preserve status quo.

So refreshing to hear!

Unfortunately, most of the time younger people are used to hearing quite the opposite from their previous generations- 'you don't do things the way I used to/you think differently about this subject- so you must be wrong!' (or 'woke' is the new dismissive term employed these days!) I never thought just growing old qualifies someone to be more of an authority on a whole range of subjects and issues. Personally, I'm seeing that I learn a lot more from my younger colleagues than I do from my peers or older ones. But yes, I also catch myself once in a while, reacting knee-jerk and dismissing opinions and ideas that I don't like- simply because they don't conform to what I am familiar with (and for no other qualitative reason). I certainly was a lot less judgemental a decade ago.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by carboy

It is that whether our reaching 4000 USD after 15 years can be considered as our time in the sun.

Getting to a per capita GDP of $4000 in 15 years should not be too difficult. GDP usually doubles every 7 years during times of reasonably quick growth and can double in 5 years during real quick growth. Currently India is at approximately $2500 per capita. So a simple doubling it would easily cross the 4k mark and that should be achieved by 2030 itself if not sooner. The only wildcard is the depreciation of the rupee vs. the $. As long as it is not too sharp, we should be able to achieve $4000 level in the next 5 years itself.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Getting to a per capita GDP of $4000 in 15 years should not be too difficult.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I am not saying it's difficult.

You can read this comment of mine which was written before the comment you replied to - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5502380 (Understanding Economics)

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by am1m

So refreshing to hear!
...or 'woke' is the new dismissive term employed these days!

I've also been wondering this. Why on earth do people think that being woke is a bad thing? I can only put it down to a lack of interest in understanding the actual meaning of the word, and the importance it has. The most woke people I can think of were Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi, Subhash Chandra Bose, and Martin Luther King. I'd be quite happy to be dismissed in the same breath as them.

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

...The latter feel entitled and likely to be woke.

What Chetan has described - changing the lot of their family and peer groups, asking difficult questions, bucking the status quo and harmful traditions - is the very definition and essence of being woke.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Getting to a per capita GDP of $4000 in 15 years should not be too difficult. GDP usually doubles every 7 years during times of reasonably quick growth and can double in 5 years during real quick growth. Currently India is at approximately $2500 per capita. So a simple doubling it would easily cross the 4k mark and that should be achieved by 2030 itself if not sooner.

GDP doubling is not the same as GDP per capita doubling. Growth in population helps GDP growth, but has no effect on GDP per capita growth.

In the 7 years before COVID, our GDP per capita didn't even come close to doubling. It didn't even increase by 50% in those 7 years.

[RaghavEvoX]

GDP is a very misleading term to compare economies.
To put in simple terms, you can't compare total earnings of a house which has 100 people to another which has only 5 people.
Even GDP per capita is not a good way to compare economies but unfortunately that is the one way which is used by many for easy access of the data.
A family of 4 can live very happily with a salary of say 30,000 rupees/month. And another family of 2 who earns 2,00,000/month can be living in a hand to mouth way.
That's because of the commitments, spending on different array of things & other factors.
Similarly, a country with 10,000 GDP per capita can have a better class of living for its citizens than a country with 20,000 GDP per capita.
On another front, as an example, an India with a 1000 GDP Per Capita in late 2000s might be better than 2200 of today.
A good comparison would be GDP per capita with respect to the cost of living index.
Or else GDP Per capita (which is excluding the top 100 people contributing to the GDP).
That will give a real indication of where we stand.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

... actual meaning of the word...

Words have become slaves to popular rhetoric, they mean whatever a majority (or a loud influential minority) want them to mean these days, even if what's being described is often not even in the same ballpark as the term being attached to it.

That's how 'intellectual' and 'expert' ended up in the insults bin.