[Samurai]

Originally Posted by alpha1

From what I could read, he seems to be anti-capitalism.

I would want the answer to my question from someone who is pro-capitalism.

Why is this obsession with labels? Capitalists are not angels, and socialists are not villains. Get over the labels and try to understand the human side of economics. This is something never addressed in business schools. Unfortunately, we are only exposed to positive side of capitalism in business schools.

I have discussed this before.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Why is this obsession with labels? Capitalists are not angels, and socialists are not villains. Get over the labels and try to understand the human side of economics. This is something never addressed in business schools. Unfortunately, we are only exposed to positive side of capitalism in business schools.

I have discussed this before.

Exactly the reason why I want someone who is really polarized in view of favoring capitalism to think deeply and answer my question.

The point being, I feel that capitalism stands for short term results. Unfortunately since most human beings have only a short foresight, they have no idea what their philosophies and actions will lead them to.

e.g. Deliberate Environmental change caused by unbridled human "development" activities (or damage if you want to call it) - can it really be controlled via capitalism? NEVER. Why would anyone care when the impact horizon is decades or even centuries.

Second example would be marketization of all transactions between humans. Let us understand that there are lot of social transactions (and perhaps even a few monetary ones) that we wouldn't want to turn into a capitalism style constant competition.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Exactly the reason why I want someone who is really polarized in view of favoring capitalism to think deeply and answer my question.

Isn't that an oxymoron? The moment such a person thinks deeply, he/she will realize they can't speak honestly.

Instead, we can look at history, to see what happened to capitalistic societies in the long term. USA in the 19th century is a great example of pure capitalism, which they had to scale back drastically in the 20th century.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Second example would be marketization of all transactions between humans. Let us understand that there are lot of social transactions (and perhaps even a few monetary ones) that we wouldn't want to turn into a capitalism style constant competition.

Exactly, even the most hardcore fan of capitalism will dump competition when he has to choose between his average son and a smart nobody, to succeed him.

Recently I did have a similar discussion in another thread.

[dark.knight]

I have a very offbeat style of viewing economics, and I believe that economics cannot be argued, because each person's way of looking at it differs as is evident by the over 2 dozen popular theories that are taught and many more in the modern age. I say this as a business graduate with a decade of industry experience so far.

I may not remember the textbooks completely now since its been a few years, but even in class I've had heated debates with the peers and the professor on what really works - we had very open ended sessions and it helped me and everyone alike to figure out a middle ground though we rarely arrived at one. My contention was that the birth and "valuation" or money/currency/promissory notes are simply not what is made out to be by the press and most commonly found "economics for idiots" hand-guides.

No theory is right and no theory is wrong. If I say I 'believe' in Neo-Malthusian economics I'd be termed as anti-human, I may also say I believe in laissez faire in some part and I'd be termed as a crooked opportunist. Overtly regularized business environments may be a favourite of pro-government conformists yet in some parts it protects the consumers and maintains a balance. The best part is I believe in every theory because what is essential today is a balance.. without balance one will naturally seek leverage and advantage since the ethos of man lies in greed and power.

I generally keep away from debates of this nature as people stoop way too low in proving their "point".. fact is that everyone will have a different view, period. The basics of it all is that there was barter, that barter hinged on demand and supply as does everything else on earth and that barter system was not perfect.. thus gold and silver pieces were used, even in places of worship such as the temples of Israel. Gold and silver were hard to carry around and easy to steal thus came the promissory notes and from there came the greatest sin on earth - money notes. These money notes were and are subject to changing values and can even be withdrawn from circulation, the public trusts that the "central" banks do their job honestly and diligently when doing such things, maintaining a careful balance of valuation vs demand and also creating equilibrium between the haves and the have-nots, we all know that's one massive lie (or atleast, I do).

Can I do a better job? No I can't. Is there a better system of living? Yes, its called Ubuntu but it has more than its share of flaws and just one person not doing his/her work will lead to the collapse of the whole system. Are my theories negotiable? No, they are not, they are my views and shall remain so.
I think the Solow model is what is going on presently in advanced nations, then there are the bottom-feeding countries such as ours (let's be frank here) that work off the demand of the advanced nations and then countries that tried too hard to be different and not align with the banks(ter) cartels who found themselves at the throes of financial, moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

I say this as a business graduate with a decade of industry experience so far.

Which describes most of the regular contributors on this thread I suppose. In addition, few are entrepreneurs who survive by understanding the economics of their respective industry.

Originally Posted by dark.knight

I may not remember the textbooks completely now since its been a few years

No issues, we don't do bookish discussions here. It is all based on real life experience.

Originally Posted by dark.knight

My contention was that the birth and "valuation" or money/currency/promissory notes are simply not what is made out to be by the press and most commonly found "economics for idiots" hand-guides.

Alternative theories are welcome as long as one can explain it clearly and support it with evidence. But conspiracy theories may not survive the scrutiny by the learned members.

Originally Posted by dark.knight

The basics of it all is that there was barter, that barter hinged on demand and supply as does everything else on earth and that barter system was not perfect.. thus gold and silver pieces were used, even in places of worship such as the temples of Israel. Gold and silver were hard to carry around and easy to steal thus came the promissory notes and from there came the greatest sin on earth - money notes. These money notes were and are subject to changing values and can even be withdrawn from circulation, the public trusts that the "central" banks do their job honestly and diligently when doing such things, maintaining a careful balance of valuation vs demand and also creating equilibrium between the haves and the have-nots, we all know that's one massive lie (or atleast, I do).

Your concept of currency is bit different than mine.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Which describes most of the regular contributors on this thread I suppose. In addition, few are entrepreneurs who survive by understanding the economics of their respective industry.

I am as well, an entrepreneur since the past few months and I'm glad I've started early. My only bad experiences remain the bureaucracy and interactions with the government, I'm enjoying the rest of the process and the flexibility to make decisions, pricing, marketing etc. I was sick of the way businesses are being run these days over "apps" and by just using marketing fluff and smoke.. I hope to never go down that path ever - I've built a formidable rolodex based on real-life interactions and prior work experience and they form the bulk of my clients today.

No issues, we don't do bookish discussions here. It is all based on real life experience.

Real life experiences are the real deal, books can only teach 10% of the reality as I'm discovering. In the end economics is just about "tagging" or "classifying" what has happened or what has been happening in terms of trade/business.. in real life I've not used economics one bit. Accounts, marketing and branding are what counts in most day-to-day business operations, of course, again my view only. Economics is useful to get a macro-perspective of the economy in general and can be used to tune and refine the workings on a national level.

Alternative theories are welcome as long as one can explain it clearly and support it with evidence. But conspiracy theories may not survive the scrutiny by the learned members.

As I've said before, I accept all views and share with the intent that my views are, accepted by a couple of people now and then. I found this blog very very entertaining to read, and it has formed an unchangeable opinion in my mind.. and I also know that this piece has its own agenda but I'm not looking at that :http://www.michaeljournal.org/articl...-myth-exploded Among many things, it speaks thru hints, of fractional reserve lending, money valuation vis-a-vis gold, banking frauds and, of course, enslavement of the public.

Your concept of currency is bit.

I may be contradicting myself by calling money evil yet working for it, being enslaved by it, and aspiring for it.. but fact remains that without doing so, I would not get the necessities to survive nor be able to provide the same. Like the majority of the countrymen I grew up in humble roots so I guess we as a country are not yet "as" materialistic or careless with money as say the west - they may have a much, much higher GDP but people go down in debt much more for very silly reasons there, i'm sure you'd know it all too well having lived there (I love America more than any nation on earth, for the record). Hence I'm trying my best to survive in a neo-world where futile materialism is counterbalanced by the need to look towards the future and provide for anticipatory financial disasters and vice versa.

Economics, I see it as financial law.. a line of study which began in theory to analyze and record the various states of financial stability in each country and to determine what works best in the interest of humanity at large - balancing the enrichment of businesses and consumers alike. Like everything else in law, the most intelligent/cunning can tip the scales in their favor while the rest are parted with their wealth ever so slightly everyday. Its a collaborative effort if one needs to see positive, holistic development worldwide I suppose, taking into context environment, eco-system, production and everything else - finance.

For now, money makes the world go round, I admit that it's one of the reasons I get up at morning (else it'd be afternoon).

[Sawyer]

Evidence continues to mount about how GDP growth and the Sensex are very misleading indicators of the state of the nation.

In the non farm, non corporate sector, the last 5 years has seen per capita income growth of 85%, with a job growth of just 3%. Income growth is just the other side of the coin of GDP growth so what this says is that the same people are getting more prosperous.

That nothing different is happening in the corporate sector on the job creation front is a very safe bet, while jobs have to be shed in the farm sector if that is to be viable without regular loan waivers.

The job creation situation is therefore the elephant in the room that is only growing bigger. Expect therefore a lot more gimmicks, slogans, political games, war fever and vigilante driven campaigns to distract all of us from what is the only thing that matters in India now, other than saving the environment from being systematically raped and exploited to grow the income of the haves and than saving women from the attentions of frustrated men, who probably also don't have jobs to keep them productively busy.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Evidence continues to mount about how GDP growth and the Sensex are very misleading indicators of the state of the nation.

I moved it here because the post had nothing to do with demonetization. What you are witnessing is true, it is the long term of effect of capitalism and has been seen repeatedly in any capitalistic society. Karl Marx was the first one to identify and document it in his book Das Kapital. Unfortunately, his extreme solution for it was communism. That experiment failed miserably as it was too unnatural to human nature and led to even more dysfunctional societies. The problem was economical, but he suggested a political cure. That was a big mistake. While democracy is not perfect, it is the best system we have. And it is the job of such a democratically elected government to correct the imbalance/inequality created by capitalism. I have discussed this before.

[Samurai]

We are so used to defining poverty by dollars per day. However, many cultures don't measure it that way. Here is a refreshing look at it from an African.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-someth...engo?srid=CPqD

[V.Narayan]

Baa3 to Baa2 Our credit rating has not been this good since the mid-1980s. Would like to hear the comments and perspectives of the experts on this.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Baa3 to Baa2 Our credit rating has not been this good since the mid-1980s. Would like to hear the comments and perspectives of the experts on this.

After listening to experts on CNBC ranting and raving the whole day on Friday, all I figured out was that certain pension funds or sovereign investment funds (which have been forced to stay away from India till now) will have one more market (India) to invest in, among many others. So more money flow into Indian equities and debt, but its unlikely to be a tsunami of money flow - just a gentle stream.

[Vishal.R]

Opinion on relationship between longevity and financial inequality.

https://inequality.org/research/forg...-try-tax-plan/

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Vishal.R

Opinion on relationship between longevity and financial inequality.

[

Although probably impossible to prove in any factual/scientific way I do believe in this mechanism. There is of course more to it, but still along the lines of (in)equality. Good schooling and medical care available to all (equality) is also of paramount importance. And in general equality in sexes, race etc.

Again, it’s difficult to prove, but there are sufficient examples since the second world where countries have developed a very prosperous, stable society and you will find all of these elements coming together.

What the (red) wine does to you medically has been debated for a long time. For decades it has been suggested (at least in the west) that drinking moderately 1-2 glasses per day, preferable during meal time, was actually good for you. I remember many years ago having to undergo a medical for insurance purpose. Saying you drank moderately gave a better score than no-drinking!

I don’t think, I might be wrong, that anybody has ever come up with indisputable proof that the wine itself has a positive effect on the human body.

But in the context of the same arguments: People who drink 1-2 glasses a day most likely have the education to know they shouldn’t overdo on the alcohol and the financial means to drink everyday. So in general, people who drink sensibly like this, tend to have a prosperous life style.

Jeroen

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Vishal.R

Opinion on relationship between longevity and financial inequality.

I am not at all surprised. This is a 6 year old thread on Economics, yet the word inequality was mentioned only twice in this thread. Both times by me.

Originally Posted by Samurai

A happy society is not the one that has huge income inequality.

Originally Posted by Samurai

While democracy is not perfect, it is the best system we have. And it is the job of such a democratically elected government to correct the imbalance/inequality created by capitalism.

Why do we have such a disconnect? It is because almost all of us here who have economics background, studied economics in business studies and not in humanities. As a result we were not exposed to the human side of economics. Business schools don't want you to explore that aspect of economics. I learned about it only in the recent years via other channels.

[C300]

Originally Posted by Samurai

We are so used to defining poverty by dollars per day. However, many cultures don't measure it that way. Here is a refreshing look at it from an African.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-someth...engo?srid=CPqD

Refreshing. Recently read this book on natural farming by Masanobu Fukuoka which on similar lines.

http://www.onestrawrevolution.net/On...evolution.html