[RS_DEL]

Query regarding Law schools to members from the legal profession &/or members who have been through the grind as parents.

Folks my daughter is planning on studying law post Class XII. She has secured one option already i.e. Amity Law School in Amity University, NOIDA. I shall be grateful if anyone can throw some light on the quality standards at this institution. They are a sister institution of Amity Law School under the Guru Gobind Singh Indraparastha University (IP Univ). The management is the same i.e. Amity Group headed by Mr Chauhan.

Also it will be great if any member can shed some light on Vivekananda Law School also under the IP University system.




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[vina]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Query regarding Law schools to members from the legal profession &/or members who have been through the grind as parents.

Folks my daughter is planning on studying law post Class XII. She has secured one option already i.e. Amity Law School in Amity University, NOIDA. I shall be grateful if anyone can throw some light on the quality standards at this institution. They are a sister institution of Amity Law School under the Guru Gobind Singh Indraparastha University (IP Univ). The management is the same i.e. Amity Group headed by Mr Chauhan.

Also it will be great if any member can shed some light on Vivekananda Law School also under the IP University system.




@mods ; Could not locate any thread on the subject. Kindly place as you find appropriate. Thanks.

NLSIU in Bangalore is the best and has 5yr courses - they have an entrance test. You can check Law Faculty of DU also (not sure if they have 5yr course)

http://www.nls.ac.in/ has all the information regarding the first. Since you are from Delhi, you can easily find out about the Law Faculty (they hold entrance tests too)

[Axe77]

Amity is all right but if you're looking at top tier schools, I'd say check out nlsiu blore, nujs (cal); nalsar Hyd; and the ones in Bhopal and jodhpur (can't remember their abbrv). These are certainly a cut above amity. They're also where all the top law firms recruit from in campus placements.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Query regarding Law schools to members from the legal profession &/or members who have been through the grind as parents.

Folks my daughter is planning on studying law post Class XII. She has secured one option already i.e. Amity Law School in Amity University, NOIDA. I shall be grateful if anyone can throw some light on the quality standards at this institution. They are a sister institution of Amity Law School under the Guru Gobind Singh Indraparastha University (IP Univ). The management is the same i.e. Amity Group headed by Mr Chauhan.

Also it will be great if any member can shed some light on Vivekananda Law School also under the IP University system.


@mods ; Could not locate any thread on the subject. Kindly place as you find appropriate. Thanks.

Hi

before the pre ponderence of 'national law schools' in the country, Amity and IP university were ok. Now, if the intention of your daughter is to work in a corporate (as a legal officer) or to join a law firm, then Amity or IP university are probably not the right place (campus recruitment doesn't happen). However if the intention to litigate, then they are fine.

Between the two Amity is definitely better. In Delhi, you could also consider the National law university, Delhi, and Jindal college of law (very costly), and DU Law Faculty (Campus Law Centre is i think its name).

Otherwise of course, NLS, followed by NUJS/NALSAR/NLIU Jodhpur rule the roost.

[sgiitk]

A lot also depends on whether she wants to go into consultation type of work or litigation. Somehow litigation is not popular with the products of the elite colleges. for litigation what matters more than where you got your degree is where you cut your teeth. After graduation work with a top lawyer or law firm for a few years.

[mayankk]

Hey,
I did a stint in a law firm(im not a lawyer), some time back.
All i recall is when it came time for recruitments(associate, or interns), the prime candidates used to NLSIUs/nalsar/University law faculties/army law college/remainder.

This i am just saying from employment POV.

Sorry, this may seem sketchy/no help, but i thought id chip in with what i remembered.

[Gautam Misra]

Heartening to know that your daughter has decided on studying law. I hope the following information is helpful to you:

TYPES OF COURSES:
5 YEAR COURSE - After class 12

3 Year Course - After graduation.

LAWYER OR CORPORATE EXECUTIVE

If your daughter has decided on this then it will be easier to choose a college.

The top college is undoubtedly NSLIU, Bangalore.

The other colleges are NALSAR/ NUJS Kolkata etc.

Selection is based on quite a tough entrance. See the following website- CLAT :: Common Law Admission Test 2011 Official Website

If you daughter wants to be lawyer and practice in the courts then DU / GLC Mumbai / ILS Law Pune are the colleges are for her.

Amity/ Jindal are "big" names without much substance; not recommended.

If she does not get through the entrance then you may consider them.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

A lot also depends on whether she wants to go into consultation type of work or litigation. Somehow where you cut your teeth. After graduation work with a top lawyer or law firm for a few years.

Very true!!

Old school law practice is dead so it seems. The young ones want a fancy paycheck, a nice office and a car loan right out of law school and hence this rush for the NLU system to ensure that. This is why I had warned my daughter to not have any fancy expectations and be ready to work for a pittance as long as she is able to gain work experience which is enriching.

The best part is when it comes to core legal work in the court system even the big name outfits do not mind going to the litigation specialists. This I know because I have seen it happening first hand.

I had posted the question here because even though Amity Law School affiliated to IP University is very well known, Amity Law School under the auspices of Amity Univ is a newer entity. Consequently very few people know much about it including my family members who are in the profession and partners in one of the fancy big name outfits.

[vina]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Very true!!

Old school law practice is dead so it seems. The young ones want a fancy paycheck, a nice office and a car loan right out of law school and hence this rush for the NLU system to ensure that. This is why I had warned my daughter to not have any fancy expectations and be ready to work for a pittance as long as she is able to gain work experience which is enriching.

The best part is when it comes to core legal work in the court system even the big name outfits do not mind going to the litigation specialists. This I know because I have seen it happening first hand.

I had posted the question here because even though Amity Law School affiliated to IP University is very well known, Amity Law School under the auspices of Amity Univ is a newer entity. Consequently very few people know much about it including my family members who are in the profession and partners in one of the fancy big name outfits.

I don't know about the new NLUs, but NLSIU is very old - almunus includes the who's who of Indian lawyers (and politicians). Same is true with DU Law Faculty, GLC Mumbai etc.

Having said that, in any profession college gives a jump start - and that's about it. I have colleagues who went to IITs a decade ago (when they still used to slog there) and several of them have lost their edge completely over the years - simply because of no interest in learning more.

You probably know much more about these things, having over a decade and half of a head-start in raising a daughter over me, but one things that can help all teenagers serious about their life is a serious advice that college is merely a first step towards a never ending journey which can be very enriching.

Getting a good break early on is nice and very productive as long as the person can maintain the hardwork (easy to lose once you get to a top college and get the sense of entitlement from your surroundings), and not getting an early break means nothing if the person is willing to take failures in her stride and keep working hard.


Years ago I chose the field I loved over software (and got paid one third of what was on offer) - my father didn't object, but didn't like it either, but my mother supported it (and she had been a housewife all her life) - and it has shaped up pretty well for me. When you tell your daughter to chose good work over good salary - that's an advice I can relate to.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by vina

I don't know about the new NLUs, but NLSIU is very old - almunus includes the who's who of Indian lawyers (and politicians). Same is true with DU Law Faculty, GLC Mumbai etc.

When you tell your daughter to chose good work over good salary - that's an advice I can relate to.

I could not have put it any better. Thanks very much for taking the trouble to write this. I appreciate it very much.

[PPS]

Hi. It's very heartening to know that your daughter has decided to pursue Law as a career. I come across very few people who want to pursue law as a career. Nowadays everyone joins the BMS/MBA bandwagon! Very few are genuinely interested in law & most of the students you find in the classroom have some family members/relatives in this profession.
Agree with most of the comments made above. I have done the 5yr B.L.S/LL.B course from Mumbai University. The standard here is below average. Government Law College(GLC) here is Mumbai's no.1 law college but the standard of this college has been steadily falling due to lack of teaching staff/principal,etc. Our President Pratibha Patil has also done her LL.B from GLC.
National Law School,Bangalore is the no.1 law school in India & the salaries that are offered are moth-watering to say the least, read 2yrs back that a student bagged a 1cr offer from UK firm!
It depends on your daughter whether she wants to practice as a lawyer or work in a company as a legal executive/advisor,etc. One of my friends who consistently topped in my college almost every year decided not to practice but join an LPO.
Its a lot of hard work/patience being a junior lawyer , one has to be ready to slog for years & years. But its a different thrill altogether at the end of the day ! Here's what you earn when you make it Big - Star lawyers get Rs 5 lakh for 5-minute job - Economic Times

[manolin]

Originally Posted by PPS

National Law School,Bangalore is the no.1 law school in India & the salaries that are offered are moth-watering to say the least, read 2yrs back that a student bagged a 1cr offer from UK firm!

haha! that might have been slightly over-reported. Something like 40-50 lakhs is more like it, and that too after completing a training contract for 2 years. But then there are higher taxes and other expenses in UK.

To put things mentioned in the previous post in perspective

Forbes India - India's Biggest In Law, Amarchand Mangaldas

These firms also make hundreds of millions.

And the spread of this money is fairly more even than in litigation (legacy, family, contacts matter lesser in corporate firms than in litigation: this is an age old debate among lawyers from national law schools, with no straight answers). But all that debate is besides the point. When someone is entering the law, the question really is not that simple, simply because a 17 year cannot ever conceptualize (and nor can his/her parents, they are from a different generation with no correlation to the pressures that this generation faces) what they would want to do in year 23 when they get out of college.

There are two ways to deal with this. First broadly to judge the aptitude of the student - is she inclined towards Arts subjects, commerce or science. Once that is decided, the next question is a gamble. Obviously no one with an aptitude for science should do law, that would be a waste. Anyone with a commerce or arts interest would be better suited for law. But that is no reason to chose law as a career. What one should really do is get some preparatory material for law schools - or skim through some really basic material on law - torts law/contracts (no, reading John Grisham won't help). If the person likes it, only then should one warm up to the idea. Otherwise he/she risks falling into an existential dilemma that pretty much 70% of NLS type college graduates fall into - talented, well trained, and frustated with the opportunities that become available to you once you graduate (litigation or law firms or companies). NY times sorts it well here, and this applies to india as well.


I for one would suggest people to do law for one good reason - it gives a sound liberal arts background should one choose to do anything else; and a liberal arts education makes for enlightened and better people.

[vina]

Originally Posted by manolin

...


There are two ways to deal with this. First broadly to judge the aptitude of the student - is she inclined towards Arts subjects, commerce or science. Once that is decided, the next question is a gamble. Obviously no one with an aptitude for science should do law, that would be a waste. Anyone with a commerce or arts interest would be better suited for law. But that is no reason to chose law as a career. What one should really do is get some preparatory material for law schools - or skim through some really basic material on law - torts law/contracts (no, reading John Grisham won't help). If the person likes it, only then should one warm up to the idea. Otherwise he/she risks falling into an existential dilemma that pretty much 70% of NLS type college graduates fall into - talented, well trained, and frustated with the opportunities that become available to you once you graduate (litigation or law firms or companies). NY times sorts it well here, and this applies to india as well.

....


and a liberal arts education makes for enlightened and better people.

First of all, people with Scientific aptitude are sorely needed in all walks of life in India - here even most engineers and doctors lack Scientific aptitude.

Second it'll be a great service to the society if such people do join Law - this is one of the professions hugely underserved. And it is definitely not a waste - constitutional law, contract law, torts - you name it - all follow a very systematic method at least in theory and in countries like India, where case law is the judicial doctrine in practice, the application of previous verdicts (and their criticisms etc.) forms a very logical methodology immediately familiar to people coming from scientific backgrounds.

Third, while I fully support anybody who wants to study liberal arts and wouldn't underrate their importance to the society - "studying liberal arts makes better people" is a statement from somebody who probably has the intellect of most (MOST not all) liberal arts graduates in the country. In my opinion studying anything can make for better people and may not - I have seen more crooks amongst the educated folk (liberal arts or otherwise) than in illiterate folks.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by vina

First of all, people with Scientific aptitude are sorely needed in all walks of life in India - here even most engineers and doctors lack Scientific aptitude.

Second it'll be a great service to the society if such people do join Law - this is one of the professions hugely underserved. And it is definitely not a waste - constitutional law, contract law, torts - you name it - all follow a very systematic method at least in theory and in countries like India, where case law is the judicial doctrine in practice, the application of previous verdicts (and their criticisms etc.) forms a very logical methodology immediately familiar to people coming from scientific backgrounds.

Third, while I fully support anybody who wants to study liberal arts and wouldn't underrate their importance to the society - "studying liberal arts makes better people" is a statement from somebody who probably has the intellect of most (MOST not all) liberal arts graduates in the country. In my opinion studying anything can make for better people and may not - I have seen more crooks amongst the educated folk (liberal arts or otherwise) than in illiterate folks.

Vina, I agree my last statement was a bit odd and not warranted. What I meant was that a little bit (more than what school teaches one) of liberal arts education (about rights, responsibilities, history and theory behind them is needed for everyone who is part of civil society, even businessmen to engineers).

By scientific aptitude I mean a natural interest and affinity towards science subjects. No doubt that people who have that may also make outstanding lawyers. But when you are starting out to choose a profession, you may as well try and study something which you have an aptitude for, or are interested in. I say this because in batch of say 80 in a law school, at least 60 would have taken it becuase they got through the entrance exam, didn't feel like taking up engineering/mba/economics, and are at least guaranteed a high paying job when they get out. When you are 17, what you want is the easiest shortcut to working and paying life.

Following precedents, and constructing arguments do not require scientific aptitude, or scientific temper - they just require logical reasoning ability. It is no science. It requires a mastery over English and an ability to express yourself in clear terms or confusing terms as the situation demands.

[vina]

Originally Posted by manolin

Vina, I agree my last statement was a bit odd and not warranted. What I meant was that a little bit (more than what school teaches one) of liberal arts education (about rights, responsibilities, history and theory behind them is needed for everyone who is part of civil society, even businessmen to engineers).

By scientific aptitude I mean a natural interest and affinity towards science subjects. No doubt that people who have that may also make outstanding lawyers. But when you are starting out to choose a profession, you may as well try and study something which you have an aptitude for, or are interested in. I say this because in batch of say 80 in a law school, at least 60 would have taken it becuase they got through the entrance exam, didn't feel like taking up engineering/mba/economics, and are at least guaranteed a high paying job when they get out. When you are 17, what you want is the easiest shortcut to working and paying life.

Following precedents, and constructing arguments do not require scientific aptitude, or scientific temper - they just require logical reasoning ability. It is no science. It requires a mastery over English and an ability to express yourself in clear terms or confusing terms as the situation demands.

I fully agree with everything you have written, except the last paragraph.

On the liberal arts stuff - the engineering college I went to forced us to study four semester courses on humanities. I studied Linguistics, Philosophy, Sociology and Urban Planning and Art. I have found all of these to be more important in life and career (as an engineer in hard engineering design) than several of the other technical courses which were demanding intellectually but useful in a very narrow sense.

On your comments on the confusion in a teenager's mind - again agreed fully. And teenagers not only lack information, they lack perspective and are susceptible to all things from peer pressure to glitzy advertizing. It is the parents' job to help the teenager figure out their own potential and matching opportunities. Good teachers can help too (they did help me).

Following precedent etc. - that is the dirty day-to-day work for a lawyer, and nobody would be enthusiastic to be a lawyer if that is all it is. After studying law for six months myself (enrolled as a hobby in a friendly relative's college - they allowed me to not attend classes eventually I prepared for three papers, but having been an A student all my life decided to drop rather than fail the other papers ) I can tell you that the kind of logical methods followed are very similar to methods in sciences. Fundamentally there is no difference except one - experimentation. And this difference is what stops law (and mathematics for that matter) from being an outright science.