[Aroy]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Dad wants to add a roof to the front portion of the house to provide some cover to the front sit-out and car porch.

Took a quote from a local contractor for building a trussless roof to cover about 31ft by 9ft area.

I am not sure which is the best material to go for. The contractor has asked to choose between Everlast Aluminium ones and TATA's Zinc+Aluminium. Unfortunately, don't have the actual product names

Attaching the quote (Total is about Rs. 60k inclusive of labor charges of about Rs. 20k) we got. Appreciate it if members can let me know if the quote is reasonable and any other pointers I should keep in mind.

Is it a cantilever roof, or one supported at the ends?

I personally prefer roof supported with pipe/column at the end, like the old style colonial bungalow porch.

There are a few points that come to my mind :

1. Ensure that the roof is sloped out and to one side and a rain gutter to collect rain water.

2. Metal roof will be very loud during rains. A roof lined with terracotta tiles is both aesthetically pleasing and not as loud.

3. As at some time you will have to clean the roof surface, ensure that it can support at least two persons without deforming.

Another option is to make a concrete structure with columns at each outer end. 31' x 9' is approximately 10m x 3m = 30 sq.m at 10cm thickness that is 3 cu.m and at 15cm 4.5 cu.m. Add another 1.5 cu.m for columns and you get 6 cu.m. Then there is steel that will be 500kg or so. In Delhi premix m20 concrete is around Rs.5,000/cu.m.

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/rea...-concrete.html

So that material costs may hover around Rs.60,000 plus there is labour. Definitely more than what is quoted for metal roof, but a more permanent solution.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Dad wants to add a roof to the front portion of the house to provide some cover to the front sit-out and car porch.

Took a quote from a local contractor for building a trussless roof to cover about 31ft by 9ft area.

.

Ensure that there are no high winds in your zone. Else the sheets may get blown with a gust of wind.
Metallic sheets do get corroded over a time. Polycarbonate sheets (not commonly used Fibreglass sheets) with Diamond Cut lower surface, comes in various colours to let diffused light to pass through. It comes in a roll of 3.0 or 6.0 ft. width and cut to your required length. Check on it too.

[vsathyap]

We recently did a renovation of our house and as a part of the renovation, we replaced 20-30yo GI pipes (the old metallic Zinc-Iron alloy pipes) with the current standard PVC and UPVC Pipes. However, after this exercise we noticed that there is a significant drop in water pressure in the bathrooms and one of the possible reasons is that the plumber may have used 3/4" pipes compared to the old 1" pipes we had. Also, we have installed newer bathroom fittings like a diverter, etc. which may require a higher pressure to work properly (and hence may be delivering lesser pressure water).

All said and done, the pressure is too low as the overhead tank is barely 9ft above the bathrooms/taps. We were told that installing booster pumps would be the best way forward. The one that was recommended to us was this Grundfos Pressure pump

https://www.amazon.in/Grundfos-Press.../dp/B07G6K2G5Q

I was taken aback at the price at first (because this is basically a regression issue - create a problem that was not there earlier and now use an expensive fix to address it) but now, since the flow is so pathetic that we cannot enjoy a decent shower with the "oh so cool new fittings" in the bathroom, I'm slowly warming up to the idea.

Now, my concerns are these:

1. The ground floor house still has the old GI (metal alloy) pipes and fittings and they are also easily 30-40 yo. Are there chances that the added pressure from the booster pump may expose weak spots on those pipes, causing them to tear open and create seepage into the walls and create another expesive fix?
2. The plumber suggesting the booster pump also mentioned that it cannot be linked to the Solar water heater as it wont work on that piping circuit.

The whole point of getting the pressure pump is to have a decent shower experience but with the Solar water heater line not getting sufficient pressure, will it do any justice to getting it installed in the first place - will it fix the original problem?


Also one more issue is that we have an internal storage geyser which gets it's "input" from the output of the Solar water heater. There is no cold water line coming from the main water tank into this storage geyser. Will the pressure pump help in this scenario as well or will it just be "too little too late" even if we get the booster pump installed?

What about these new PVC pipes and their ability to handle pressure? I've read some horror stories about these pipes giving away at the joints due to the pressure and causing seepage issues and costly fixes later on. Is there any easy way to identify such joints where there may be a compromise in the fitting due to the added pressure of the booster pump?

Ive tried asking these Qs to the plumber but he gets offended when I question his "work" about how well he's installed the joints and ask him about possible leaks due to pressure ... and naturally starts raising his voice ... I can sense that undertone of arrogance when he talks back to me.

I can also look for other plumbers to do the job, but they dont know the in-and-out of how the piping work has been done post renovation like this arrogant guy knows. Im kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place with poor water pressure.

The pressure at home to fix this low pressure issue is quite high!

Sorry for the long post/rant but some pointers here will be appreciated.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

[*]The plumber suggesting the booster pump also mentioned that it cannot be linked to the Solar water heater as it wont work on that piping circuit.[/list]
The whole point of getting the pressure pump is to have a decent shower experience but with the Solar water heater line not getting sufficient pressure, will it do any justice to getting it installed in the first place - will it fix the original problem?

Your plumber is right. The normal solar water heaters may not be able to withstand the pressure. I had to go for a solar heater that could take a higher pressure like about 8 bar. However, the pressure pumps usually come with a setting where you can set the pressure from 2 bar onwards. I found 2 to 3 bar to be pretty sufficient. So you could check with your current solar vendor on how much pressure it can withstand and see if you can still make do with your current heater.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Solar water heaters for pressurised systems are a different design. The water itself does not enter the hearing tubes, they can't take the pressure. Instead, there is a heat-pipe system that hearts the water.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

All said and done, the pressure is too low as the overhead tank is barely 9ft above the bathrooms/taps. We were told that installing booster pumps would be the best way forward.


Now, my concerns are these:

1. The ground floor house still has the old GI (metal alloy) pipes and fittings and they are also easily 30-40 yo. Are there chances that the added pressure from the booster pump may expose weak spots on those pipes, causing them to tear open and create seepage into the walls and create another expesive fix?
2. The plumber suggesting the booster pump also mentioned that it cannot be linked to the Solar water heater as it wont work on that piping circuit.

Installing pressure pump is probably getting mandatory for many of the new water fixtures. The shower experience you get after the booster pump is a bliss. The water saving Altered Nozzles also require a minimum pressure of 3 bars.
You don't need to go for Grundfos pumps. A Kirloskar 0.5 HP pressure pump will do the job just as good and you will need to fork out about 5k.
This pump has a maximum boost of 6 bars - more than enough to make you happy.

My house built about about 36 years ago, was fitted with a Booster pump and the old pipe lines were not replaced at all. I have split the lines to pressured lines and non pressured lines for 'safety'. The non pressured lines feed the ancient storage water heater and kitchen. The kitchen was chosen for the non pressure as the maids would leave the taps open which would flood the kitchen if the lines were to be pressurized.

You can still use the non pressurized solar water heater connected to the mixer provided you add a 'one-way valve' to the out line of the water heater. This is how I hooked up the ancient water heater.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

We recently did a renovation of our house and ........................

Installing 3/4 inch CPVC is one of the main reasons why you are facing low pressure. I wonder why you decided on 3/4 inch when the original GI pipe was 1 inch especially when the overhead tank is just 10 feet above ? Also, the diverter system need good pressure to work.

Your analysis is correct that the older GI pipes may not be able to handle the pressure of the booster pump. My neighbor learnt it the hard way when he installed a booster pump to cater to the shower needs in his renovated bathroom. The old GI bends and elbows could not handle the additional pressure and started leaking in multiple places. He had to strip all of them and install CPVC to sort the issue. So if you have a single circuit supplying to all the bathrooms then see if you can separate the circuit for the old GI pipes so that they have a dedicated supply from the over head tank. Then you can install the booster pump on the required circuit to cater your needs.

Regarding hot water, I guess you will need to install another booster pump for the hot water circuit as well. But before that you need to ensure that your geyser is able to handle the booster pump pressure that you need. If not, then you might need a new geyser. I do not know if the solar heater also needs to be compatible with booster pump. I am thinking it need not matter since the booster is fixed on the outlet of the solar. I might be wrong.

[vsathyap]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Your plumber is right......check with your current solar vendor on how much pressure it can withstand and see if you can still make do with your current heater.

We have a 15+ year old (I guess its nearing 20y) Tata BP Solar Heater and its quite old (but still works so well). I guess it wont be designed to withstand pressures of a booster pump.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Solar water heaters for pressurised systems are a different design. The water itself does not enter the hearing tubes, they can't take the pressure. Instead, there is a heat-pipe system that hearts the water.

Correct - I am in no position to go for a solar heater replacement at this point!

Originally Posted by Prowler

A Kirloskar 0.5 HP pressure pump will do the job just as good and you will need to fork out about 5k.

I have split the lines to pressured lines and non pressured lines for 'safety'. The non pressured lines feed the ancient storage water heater and kitchen.

You can still use the non pressurized solar water heater connected to the mixer provided you add a 'one-way valve' to the out line of the water heater. This is how I hooked up the ancient water heater.

You make some interesting points. I will check how well the Kirloskar 0.5HP pump will work for our needs. Yes, thankfully, I also realized after making this post, that the piping to the ground floor house which uses GI pipes is on a different loop. This means I can attach the booster output only to the first floor which has the new CPVC pipes.

Curious to know how good the final pressure is at the business end of the diverter/ tap spout/shower when only the cold water line is getting the booster pump's output. Will it pull in more hot water due to the inherent 'low pressure' developed at the diverter, or will it completely block the hot water output and give priority only to the cold water which is coming in full pressure? Basically, I need to know if it will be worthwhile to give partial pressure to only "cold" water while the hot water is still gravity-fed?

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

I wonder why you decided on 3/4 inch when the original GI pipe was 1 inch especially when the overhead tank is just 10 feet above ? Also, the diverter system need good pressure to work.

Regarding hot water, I guess you will need to install another booster pump for the hot water circuit as well. But before that you need to ensure that your geyser is able to handle the booster pump pressure that you need.

We weren't present on site while the plumbing works were carried out. He's given the output from the overhead tank to proper 1.5 or 2inch wide pipes, but the ones coming into the bathroom from those bigger pipes is very tiny (assuming that is 3/4 or 1inch).

I dont know if we can attach booster pumps to hot water? May be those are a special kind which can tolerate boiling hot water coming from the solar heat, specially during the summer months. A normal pump may have seals or gaskets that may just give up and fail catastrophically when subjected to water beyond a certain temperature??

And yes, we thankfully have different loops for the ground floor and first floor piping lines and that kind of eliminates the worry about using boosters for old GI pipes.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

We weren't present on site while the plumbing works were carried out. He's given the output from the overhead tank to proper 1.5 or 2inch wide pipes, but the ones coming into the bathroom from those bigger pipes is very tiny (assuming that is 3/4 or 1inch).

I dont know if we can attach booster pumps to hot water? May be those are a special kind which can tolerate boiling hot water coming from the solar heat, specially during the summer months. A normal pump may have seals or gaskets that may just give up and fail catastrophically when subjected to water beyond a certain temperature??

And yes, we thankfully have different loops for the ground floor and first floor piping lines and that kind of eliminates the worry about using boosters for old GI pipes.

OK. This setup is fine. Having a 1.5 inch or 2 inch outlet from the tank and reducing it to 3/4 at the bathroom input is the right way of doing it. From your original description, i thought it was 3/4 inch all the way from the overhead tank.

I suggest you remove the aerator from the tap/faucet tip to see if there are any debris blocking the flow. Also remove the shower head and see if there are debris in the shower inlet. These obstructions also cause a drop in pressure. Run the tap/faucet/shower without attaching the aerator to flush out any debris in the pipe system

If the pressure is still not adequate for your needs even after cleaning, booster pump is your only option

[Thad E Ginathom]

True that Grundfos is just the Rolls Royce name in pumps. They are very, very silent and their customer service is excellent. But all the pump companies will offer pressure systems.

In my limited experience, CSI might be next best make, locally made.

Specs would tell you if you can pressurise the hot water after heating. It might, indeed, be a problem.

If your solar heater is half as good as my experience, you might find that pressurising the cold only is sufficient. We are able to shower with only a little hot, mostly cold, for a good hot shower in most weather. However, consider that hot and cold water mix in the tap, and pressurised water will create backflow. Don't know how you would prevent this.

British mixer taps are not permitted to actually mix the water: it mixes as it leaves the tap. This is that the one stream of water can never contaminate the water.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

All said and done, the pressure is too low as the overhead tank is barely 9ft above the bathrooms/taps

This, dear sir, is part of the problem. Can't you raise the height of the tank by another five feet using a stand? It would significantly increase the water pressure of all the taps.

For solar heater however, the lack of pressure would have to be tackled using a pump.

[vsathyap]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

This, dear sir, is part of the problem. Can't you raise the height of the tank by another five feet using a stand? It would significantly increase the water pressure of all the taps.

For solar heater however, the lack of pressure would have to be tackled using a pump.

What we have is a concrete/cement tank that is built right onto the structure of the house.

On top of this, we've placed a smaller Sintex-type tank to feed the Solar Heater. So, there is no way to lift the water storage tanks up any further. We could still have pillars and "build" a new platform for tanks to be placed higher but it wont be cost effective, specially when compared to a booster pump.

Using a booster pump for hot water is something I've not explored yet. As I mentioned earlier, if the cold water pressure is good enough for a shower - at the diverter/shower head without having to add another booster for the hot water, things should be fine.

Oh and yes, not much debris or anything blocking the pipes - checked them myself.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

This, dear sir, is part of the problem. Can't you raise the height of the tank by another five feet using a stand? It would significantly increase the water pressure of all the taps.

For solar heater however, the lack of pressure would have to be tackled using a pump.

Raising the height of the tank by 5 feet won't result in adequate pressure. It requires raising the height to 30 meters (100 feet) to result in 3 bar - something easily done by a booster pump. I have a water tank raised to about 6 feet over the first floor and the water pressure was not enough for the washing machine located at the ground floor.

At that time the only option was Grundfos and that was horrendously expensive - about 40k IIRC. Fortunately with Amazon came lots of options.
Every shower now is a blissful experience. There is a multiple shower head and it gives an invigorating shower experience unimaginable without a booster pump.

[srini1785]

^^

These booster pumps, do they need a reservoir tank?. In addition to the main OH tank?.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

What we have is a concrete/cement tank that is built right onto the structure of the house.

On top of this, we've placed a smaller Sintex-type tank to feed the Solar Heater. So, there is no way to lift the water storage tanks up any further. We could still have pillars and "build" a new platform for tanks to be placed higher but it wont be cost effective, specially when compared to a booster pump.

......................

Raising the water tank is the best solution. Raised tank is a "Static" solution, and barring the capital cost, does not involve any recurring cost.

On the other hand a "booster pump" is a "dynamic" solution. Apart from the capital cost there is the
. Running cost
. Loss pf pressure due to electricity outages
. Maintenance
. Faster deterioration of water pipes

So in the long term raising the tank will pay for itself.

Regarding tank :
. Concrete tanks are unnecessarily heavy and contribute quite a load on the supports.
. Concrete tanks may accumulate algae on the inner surfaces
. In contrast "Sintex" or equivalent tanks are more cost effective.
. The modern plastic tanks do not accumulate algae
. The plastic tanks rest on a platform, so raising the tank is just a case of raising the platform and adjusting plumbing.

So I suggest :

1. Design a platform that can take the the weight of a large tank - say 2,000 to 5,000 liters + tank for solar heater (6 metric tons max)

2. Make the platform as high as is allowed in the bylaws - upto 10m above the terrace?.

3. Dismantle the concrete tank.

4. Install the new water tank as well as the solar water tank.

All these may cost more than installing a "booster pump", but the long term benefits are definitely in favour of a new tank.

NOTE
. Do not forget to add a ladder/stairs to the platform both for installation and for periodic inspection & maintenance.

. Do construct a 1m high railing at the periphery of the platform - SAFETY.