[mrwalker]

Hi Folks

Have shortlisted the Optra for my sedan upgrade. Main criteria was to get a car within budget that can seat 2 adults + 1 child car seat + 1 baby on lap at the back comfortably and have a boot of at least 400+ ltrs.

The only ones that made the list were:
- Logan: Rejected due to low volumes and poor feedback on dealers in Pune
- Manza: Ideally suited but would need to wait at least 6-8 months before all problems can be sorted out, I need to close in a couple of months at most
- Optra: As long as I can get a good year-end discount to fit in my budget

My budget is ideally on-road at 8 lakhs but can be stretched till 9 at most. The current on-road prices (Pune) quoted on calling up the dealer are 8.5 lakhs Optra petrol MAX and 9.4 lakhs Optra diesel MAX.

Am confused about which variant I should choose, Petrol/ Diesel and MAX/ LS/ LT. I guess the Diesel LT one can be exluded as safely beyond budget however much nego is done.

Petrol vs Diesel:
- I'm not really a performance type guy (you may ask what I'm doing here then!!) but I would HATE it if the car was a drag going uphill or while overtaking with 4 adults + 2 children (seated as described above!)
- FE is a concern but the price differential is large enough for both to make sense (do 900-1000 km per month)
- Is the oil sump clearance on the diesel really an issue? Have to deal with bad roads occasionally in Pune and on state highways
- Have seen some comments that the handling/ suspension on the diesel is better, could anyone qualify that any more?

MAX vs LS vs LT:
My take on the differences between variants as follows:
- Alloy Wheels, Leather all around, Chrome outside, Turn Indicators in/ Electronic folding ORVMs: Doesn't matter
- Music System: Can add my own, which is better
- Rear Armrest: Good if not present, no bump for middle passenger...
- Lumbar support: Will miss this as I have a bad back and the one provided is quite good, will need to continue with my seat back support
- ABS: Will really miss this given the occasional lock-ups I've faced with WagonR. Will the all round discs and wide tyres suffice?
- Airbags: Will miss this, but not as much as ABS
- Auto Climate Control: Can live without it at a pinch
- Remote keyless entry, burglar alarm, fog lamps: Will get installed


My driving time break-up as below FYI
- 70% time, 32 kms per weekday: Just me driving between home and office on Pune roads during peak traffic, a good mix of smooth/ bumpy/ potholed cement/ tarmac roads with some fast stretches and some extremely clogged intersections/ bridges
- 15% time, 20 kms on Sat/ Sun: Me, wife and two children (5 and 1 yrs), moving around within Pune, shopping, visiting etc
- 10% time, 20 kms on a Sat/ Sun: Me, wife, children and my parents, moving around within Pune, shopping, visiting etc
- 5% time, 500-1000 kms drives on vacations: Me, wife, children and occasionally parents with loads of luggage on good/ OK/ bad highways
- Total approx 900-1,000 kms a month

Would also welcome any other options as long as they meet my requirements/ budget and do not involve second hand cars or a luggage rack.

Thanks!

[D.V.R]

The LS version has most of the features.Figure out whether you would need a diesel or a petrol and the 1.6 petrol is no slouch either its quite torqy.

[imp!]

Maybe you may want to look at SX4 or Verna? It may be stretching your budget a bit, but they will both have a better re-sale value and much lower maintenance costs. With the SX4, you could fly over Bangalore industrial layouts and not hit anything!! ( My friend has an SX4 and I doubt any city has worse road conditions than Bangalore...especially Jigani Industrial layout);

Not sure about On Road prices in Pune, but in Bangalore both they are around 9-10 lacs. So they may just be in your price range over there, depending on whether it is a personal car or a company car. The new SX4 looks really really nice and will be a hassle free ownership experience.

[vkochar]

When you have a budget of 8 - 9 lacs, why do you want to go for an outdated car ?

I do not understand. I would have if you would have chosen the Cruze BUT that is another 4 lacs.

Why are you not considering the ANHC ? The M/T base should cost you just about 9 lacs and is a premium sedan with great looks, great resale.

If not Honda then you have the following -

Linea
Verna CRDi - Performance and Diesel.
Fiesta

My suggestion - go for the ANHC and live your life trouble free.

[imp!]

You may wish to consider the SX4? it is very well equipped, has excellent ground clearance, has a much better resale value than Optra, and will be cheap to maintain. My friend has one that he drives around (flies around) some of the worst roads in Bangalore ( easily some of the worst in the country !) I think you should consider it.

[Ardy]

If you are looking for Optra, go for Diesel which would be more value for money. But, if Petrol vehicle is an option, then I would also suggest ANHC like Vkochar has for the budget that you have.

On Optra, I would really suggest stretching a little to opt for LT only for the reason that this is the only variant with safety features like Airbags and ABS; which I think is essential these days.

And the diesel Optra has loads of torque, so you will never find it dragging.

Good Luck.

Cheers.

[mrwalker]

Originally Posted by vkochar

Why are you not considering the ANHC ? The M/T base should cost you just about 9 lacs and is a premium sedan with great looks, great resale.

Thanks but ANHC base model is 9.5 lakhs on road in Pune, well outside my stretch budget.

Apart from that rear seat not as wide as cars listed and poor feedback re the only dealer in Pune so far, Deccan Honda. A new dealer has opened shop a month back but too early to say how long he'll last...

Originally Posted by imp!

Maybe you may want to look at SX4 or Verna? It may be stretching your budget a bit, but they will both have a better re-sale value and much lower maintenance costs.

True, I had considered SX4 initially but turned off by the rear seat which is neither wide nor long enough. Otherwise it ticks all the boxes so may go for it if Optra doesn't work out...

Verna boot too small for my requirements and not good VFM.

Originally Posted by Ardy

If you are looking for Optra, go for Diesel which would be more value for money....

On Optra, I would really suggest stretching a little to opt for LT only for the reason that this is the only variant with safety features like Airbags and ABS; which I think is essential these days.

I guess when you say more value for money you are referring to resales? Because with my driving, the Petrol/ Diesel break-even would be say 5 years away. I intend to stick onto the car for a fair bit (unless it is no longer supported by GM) so resale not so important.

Re LT I agree ABS, Airbags would be good, but only if it is available within budget. Thus my question whether the all around discs and stock tyres are good enough so that ABS would be less exercised...


Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

[imp!]

See the way I see it, there are a couple of things about the Optra you need to consider very carefully:

1) Very expensive to maintain, being a GM. In Bangalore I've heard that most discounts and maintenance free packages are mutually exclusive (not 100 % sure about this, but it seems like something GM would do); I'm quite sure that you don't want to keep shelling out for maintenance.

2) Since the car is an old model, its resale value will bomb quite suddenly, so in 5-6 years time, you wont recover as much of your money as you would normally.

3) For occasional saunters through the town with the car packed, maybe you can live with the SX4 limitations?

4) Take a look at Verna Diesel, it performs really really well and may qualify as being VFM.

have fun choosing !! this is a good problem to have :-)

[mrwalker]

Originally Posted by imp!

See the way I see it, there are a couple of things about the Optra you need to consider very carefully:

1) Very expensive to maintain, being a GM. In Bangalore I've heard that most discounts and maintenance free packages are mutually exclusive (not 100 % sure about this, but it seems like something GM would do); I'm quite sure that you don't want to keep shelling out for maintenance.

2) Since the car is an old model, its resale value will bomb quite suddenly, so in 5-6 years time, you wont recover as much of your money as you would normally.

3) For occasional saunters through the town with the car packed, maybe you can live with the SX4 limitations?

4) Take a look at Verna Diesel, it performs really really well and may qualify as being VFM.

have fun choosing !! this is a good problem to have :-)

Sigh! You have confused me, back to the drawing board...

SX4 and Manza seem like the best among the rest. Unless I raise another 3 lakhs and go for the Corolla Altis I guess.

Fiesta's rear-seat is just not enough for what I need, Verna's boot is just not enough, so the two most popular ones are off.

[D.V.R]

I own both SX4(2.5 yrs old) and the Optra(5.5 ys old).I have faced lee troubles in Optra than SX4.If you are sedate driver prefer good quality driving then go for the Optra ,If you want to glide over broken roads and drive rashly go for the SX4.Overall the Optra scores more points.And no GM servicing is not expensive for the first 40000km I had to spend nothing on labour and consumables whereas for SX4 the labour was free but I had to pay for consumables.

[aaggoswami]

IMHO, going for an older product will not be a good idea.
Have a look at the upgraded SX4. They have made changes to rear seat, plus the engine is now much better as compared to earlier unit. Plus the boot is huge and space is not a concern. Add to that the GC which is one of the best.

Maruti A.S & S. network will also be helpful.

[newcoolgadgets]

If you plan to keep the car for a long time, the SX4 is your best option. The new SX4 is much more refined than the outgoing one. It is powerful enough for any climb, and has a good FE of about 13 kmpl. As someone mentioned the rear seat has been re-designed and is more spacious and comfortable. It comes loaded with all safety features, including ABS and Airbags. If you are carrying kids in your car, you just cannot do without these. Spares for SX4 will always be available even 10 years from now, and being Maruti, will be cheaper than any other manufacturer. The same cannot be said about Optra, Fiesta etc.

The Optra is indeed cheap to maintain for the first 3 years as it is covered by GM warranty, BUT after that it will be very expensive to maintain. Keep this in mind, since most maintainance issues start cropping up after 3 years.

And finally, when it is time to sell, you won't have any problems selling a 7-8 year old SX4 for a decent price.

[phamilyman]

Yaar,

There's alot of nonsense and FUD people say.

Firstly, if you can afford a lovely car worth 8-9L over 5 years - please throw resale value out of the equation. Let's face it - the daily pleasure of a car that stands by you in good times and bad is definitely worth a few extra grands, after what .. 7-8 years? Its patently stupid to mix investment with sheer pleasure!

Secondly, everyone loves to diss the Optra - suggest you ask the high milers on the forum, or your local mechanics. Fact is, people vote with their feet. Let me digress - In delhi, last year, the CNG cab of choice was Esteem VXi, Indigo Marina and Versa. Then, Meru (?) introduced Indigo XL 1.6 once Esteem went out. The Logan was never introduced here. Then, they went over now to Accent CNG (quickly abandoning the Indigo option) and are thrilled to bits. And for that same logic - there are lots of mid-aged Ikon cabs in good ole Bengaluru. So much for what people say on forums! Spend some time in the airport parking when you're over there next!

Why don't you speak to DVR/ashthedivx in detail and then speak to your local mechs before you make up your mind.

By the way, why not a Linea?

Or a totally maha chilled out option - used Innova Petrol. They depreciate like stink but have a bulletproof Toyota engine! Trust me on this one!

PS: I drive a Swift, 31k km done in 13 months, and I will agree on the Maruti peace of mind bit. But I'd not downplay Chevy the way people love to do here!

[mrwalker]

Thanks for all the suggestions! It seems to be getting down to a choice between Optra and SX4, so let me put my 2 paise down as well.

Optra:
- It ticks all the boxes re seating and boot space, but the ABS version is out of my reach for sure
- The 3 year warranty + labour + consumables is irresistible and will ensure that I have peace of mind for 3 years. Have seen some very positive comments re this on the forum so am comfortable with it
- Resale value, as others and I have said before, is not a big consideration as I plan to stick on to the car for 7-8 years easily
- The main concerns I have with Optra are
a. The very low volumes. Based on the Oct 2009 Sales thread info, for the period Jan-Oct 09 the average monthy sales for that segment (excluding Elantra and Cruze) is 270 per month, while the same for Optra is 154, this despite Optra being priced lower. To me this seems to translate, beyond the 3 years period, into more expensive spares and service
b. Decommisioning of the model. Optra being a Daewoo platform, and Chevy moving to the new Chevy 300 platform and planning to introduce another sedan based on this below the Cruze, seems to me will translate into even lower volumes and potentially decommissioning of the model, resulting in poor spare and service availability

SX4:
- Maruti A.S.S and the fact that I can easily get a top end one in my budget with ACC, ABS, airbags is a big plus
- The rear seat however is a real let down. The centre bump has been mostly fixed, but the seat is nowhere as comfortable as the ones available on Optra and the Manza.
- Though with the higher stance is easier for my parents to get in and out but beyond that it would be a real squeeze for my full load. Now one could argue that the full load situation will happen less often, but as you can see from my drive times, the WagonR is perfectly suitable for 80% of my requirements. I am really looking for one that can do the full 100%

Re the other options suggested
- Linea: I would certainly rate it as the best car launched this or last year in the sedan segment, but the sales and service arrangement leaves me with a very bad feeling. Will not take the risk
- Used Innova: Has pursued this option for a bit, for both Diesel and Petrol, but gave it up once I saw the boot space available with someone sitting in the last row. I know this sounds strange, but on our last trip without parents we took up around 400 ltrs of space and this without carrying my son's pedal car/ cycle! And if the last row is folded down the Innova it has no more seating space to offer than the sedans under consideration. Other thing that turned me off was the very expensive repair costs mentioned on this forum.

Really the car best suited for my requirements/ budget seems to be the Manza but I will not buy one for at least 6-8 months. So back to square one...

[imp!]

I drove the Manza a few days back, the gear box is mighty notchy, Tata may have come lightyears but they still have miles to go yet. There are three Optras in our family two 1.6 and one 1.8 all belonging to Uncles anad the reactions are mixed, one loves the car, the other finds it practical, and one hates the car. As you know I am considering the laura and Skoda *** is keeping me away...well cost of maintenance of GM out of service packages is quite insane as well.