[govindremesh]

Background

The 4th gen Honda City was a blockbuster in terms of sales. Honda's gamble of cutting a bit on quality for features worked well and they put a record number of Honda City's on the road for that generation. As one of my friends suggested - the 4th Gen Honda City became the "Alto of the upper middle class of our parent's generation". The car was so successful and VFM that it's the only generation of City that's sold along with its next generation.

While there are expert critics on this forum who have written off the car due to the corners that Honda cut (no offence intended to those people or their views), I can confidently say that for most people on and off Team Bhp, the 4th Gen City has been a delight to own and operate.

We too have one of those, a 2015 Honda City V MT i-vtec with 41K on the Odometer. The car is serving us well and there have been no nasty surprises in either reliability or service. Except for accident repairs (most of which was due to transporters mishandling the car during dad's job transfers), no service bill has exceeded the 7K per year mark , with the car always being serviced at Honda service. The only exception being the bill which we got yesterday - 16K which included brake system overhaul (Brake pad change, cylinder change, disc skimming - I wonder how many of these were actually done ) and AC gas top up along with the usual oil change service.

In short- the car we have is total VFM (We paid a OTR price of 10.xx lakhs back then in Kochi), cheap from a maintenance point of view, a delight to drive and spacious enough for our (literally) tall family to go on long road trips comfortably.

The topic of discussion

The itch to upgrade has started. Looking at my (parent's) requirements for the next car, it seems we don't have many options that will be a step up from the Honda City considering the requirements below.

Our requirements are:

1. Tall vehicle (SUV like) - since parents are retired and aging, the low slung sedans/Hatchback are a no go. We need something that they can walk into to get seated, than crouch into.
   
2. Fuss free Ownership - Fill it , shut it forget it. Rules out the Germans, Indians and anything with a DCT
   
3. Fun to drive - despite being two decades old , the "vtec kicked in yo" is a feeling that still gives thrills and is a major requirement to accomplish overtakes on narrow KL roads which are dominated by high-ego drivers. With the now upsized tires, the City goes through the corners while gripping the road like a leech
   
4. Safety - The structure should be capable of "withstanding further loading". The passenger compartment should be safe. Again a requirement for KL roads as described in the point above. Very nice to have 6 airbags, but can also make do with 2 or more.
   
5. Should have an automatic transmission (if applicable)
   
6. Electric propulsion preferred as we have a solar power plant at home and are/will be overproducing electricity by a significant margin. The car will have low running (~600 km/month). Break even for investment on EV is not a concern, we prefer the green credentials and next gen of propulsion.
   
7. Budget of OTR 20 lakh +/-5 lakh (in Kerala) for the new car.
   
8. This new car will be retained for a minimum of 10 years, if not more.
   

The new car will rarely make long trips (>300 KM) and will mostly be used by my parents for local commuting and visits to neighbouring cities within a 100 KM radius of where they live.

The problem

Having been a purchase advisor for family members who upgraded to mini SUVs in recent times, I've had the opportunity to test a lot of cars in the 15-25 L, mostly Mini/Micro SUVs between early 2023 and now. Having done that, I've not yet found a car that feels like a step up in overall experience compared to the Honda City we have while fulfilling our requirements. Some examples:

Petrol cars:

1. Hyundai Creta/Kia Seltos- Cousin's 2021 Seltos DCT had a DCT failure. Hence bad reliability. CVT and iMT felt boring to drive. My own bias against Hyundai/Kia for their double standards in safety makes the matters worse! Hence ruled out
   
2. HyRyder strong Hybrid - smaller car, Hybrid not worth it for our running.
   
3. Honda Elevate - doesn't feel as exciting or a step up. Feels like a lateral upgrade. The Gen 5 city is low slung, hence not considered. The CVT performs way better than expected in terms of performance, so no problem with that. Unpopular opinion- flooring the throttle gives a quicker initial-go from the CVT compared to the DSG which has a bit of a lag before surging ahead.
   
4. MG - I'm biased against owning a Chinese engineered product that's supposed to serve for 10+ years. I don't even buy a Chinese engineered phone/home appliance, so a car is a strict no-no.
   
5. Nissan/Renault- My uncle owns a Kicks 1.3 Turbo (MT) and it's a hoot to drive. Weirdly, the seats do not go low enough, so my line of sight is the headliner of the car (I'm 6 foot tall). The current state of Nissan/Renault does not offer confidence to buy from them either.
   
6. VW/Skoda - Neither reliable nor low cost of maintenance, even when considering 1L TSI + torque converter AT drivetrain.
   

Electric cars

1. Nexon EV (pre-facelift): All of us liked the car, but it's much smaller than our City. Tata's service remains a gamble. The facelift fixes any complaints we had with the lack of features.
   
2. MG ZS EV - refer my previous comment about MG
   
3. Hyundai Kona - My usual rental in the Netherlands, but it's small and boring to drive. Steering feels like it's not connected to the wheels.

The question

What do you all think of this situation, upgrade or keep?

Unless I've completely missed something on the market , the analysis points me to the fact that it might be wise to hold on to our current car for another 2 years, by which a lot more EVs in the 20-30 lakh space will be available. The cars we're looking out for are:

• Honda Elevate EV
• Toyota/Maruti eVx
• Hyundai Creta EV (can swallow the bias if the product is good)
• Surprises from Nissan (Ariya launch in India)
• Skoda launches and prices the Enyaq at around 30 L (Unlikely)
• Tata/Mahindra gen 2 EVs (Can take the gamble on service if the product is well priced)

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Sedans section!

[Shreyans_Jain]

The best course of action for you is to hold on to your current car. Give it some love - thorough damping, a speaker upgrade, better headlights, new set of 7D mats etc. You should invest in good quality underbody anti rust coating. You can also have the door beadings of the current Gen5 car fitted to improve sound insulation. These were absent on Gen4 due to cost cutting, and are a direct fit.

Keep the City for another 3 years and reevaluate your situation then. The EV market will look very different then. If you ‘upgrade’ to the likes of Elevate or the 1.5 NA Seltos/Creta etc, you will be spending twice of what you paid back then for essentially the same car, with minor feature additions. Ergo, you will by paying solely and solely for inflation.

[Turbohead]

+1 to Shreyans Jain

You should be able to see better options in the next 2-3 years. This will also help you increase the budget if necessary. 41k kms is nothing for today's cars so you can comfortably keep it.

BTW, you may want to reevaluate your concerns on Chinese origins yet again - I know a family who ended up buying 2 MG ZS EV. Their garage also consists of an Audi A6 and a Hyundai Ioniq 5 too.

[lamborghini]

Given the rise in prices - the 20L segment is the new 10L segment; which is why you aren't seeing anything that truly feels like a step up.

Your biggest challenge is finding a reliable, safe, and fun to drive product - you can pick any 2; but not all 3.

Given your low running, if you can hold on to the city and increase your budget - that would be ideal.

Other options are to go the pre-owned way : maybe a 2020 CRV if you are lucky to find one; or a pre-owned X1 with the TC gearbox.

And finally the third option is to compromise - the Kushaq 1.0TSi with discounts & long warranty packages could work given your low running if they're ok with a few days downtime in a year. Apart from the AC & EPC issues - nothing really stands out and those seem to have been more or less resolved in newer batches. Parts will be expensive - but let's be honest : Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai parts will be similarly priced as I've learnt the hard way.
if they have a driver - maybe an Innova / XUV700 could be worth considering at a slightly higher budget.

[UD17]

Your car is too new to upgrade. I own 2013 Gen3 Honda City as my daily run, at 128K Kms. The car rides as new even now and is quite reliable. I too was etched to upgrade but instead i did:

- Replaced full suspension, window control button and all door beadings and many other loose pieces around the car
- Changed the tyre to Yokohama Earth-1 185 65R15, Added New battery
- Changed the seat covers (older one had some wrinkles and discoloration after 11 year of use) and added leather steering cover
- Complete interior deep cleaning and exterior paint restoration
- Major service by changing all filters, oil and other consumables

The car feels much tight and refreshed now. Spent around 2L rupees and i feel its well spent overall. I bought 70mai 810 4K duel channel dashcam as well and would install it during this weekend.

Further there are few more options, i.e. Change the headlight assembly, add a 10'' screen, change the silver trim in the dashboard.

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

The best course of action for you is to hold on to your current car. Give it some love - thorough damping, a speaker upgrade, better headlights, new set of 7D mats etc. You should invest in good quality underbody anti rust coating. You can also have the door beadings of the current Gen5 car fitted to improve sound insulation. These were absent on Gen4 due to cost cutting, and are a direct fit.

Thanks Shreyans, that makes sense. Specifically to the point regarding door beadings - I was wondering if I missed it during the PDI 9 years back as our Alto had it glad to know that it was indeed cost cutting , and that it can be lifted from the 5th gen City parts bin.

Originally Posted by Turbohead

+1 to Shreyans Jain

You should be able to see better options in the next 2-3 years. This will also help you increase the budget if necessary. 41k kms is nothing for today's cars so you can comfortably keep it.

BTW, you may want to reevaluate your concerns on Chinese origins yet again - I know a family who ended up buying 2 MG ZS EV. Their garage also consists of an Audi A6 and a Hyundai Ioniq 5 too.

Thanks for your inputs Turbohead. I have driven the ZS EV as a rental in the Netherlands and infact have strongly considered it (dad's friend owns one). The bias is very strong though, probably unfounded. The recent (huge) price cuts by MG on the EV don't help with the trust on the brand either

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Given the rise in prices - the 20L segment is the new 10L segment; which is why you aren't seeing anything that truly feels like a step up.

Your biggest challenge is finding a reliable, safe, and fun to drive product - you can pick any 2; but not all 3.

if they have a driver - maybe an Innova / XUV700 could be worth considering at a slightly higher budget.

Thanks Lamborghini! You mention something very interesting . May I offer a counter opinion that some cars do combine all 3 - the City (fun, reliable & safe considering the crash test results of 4th Gen City in Thailand and in general, the results of Mobilio and Amaze tested in India).

We did consider the Innova Hycross as multiple Innovas have served us as dad's office car for 15+ years and if required , my dad will buy it with his eyes closed without a test drive (such is the trust on Innova). While it's possible to really stretch out our budget, it is unnecessary to own a 7 seater. The Honda City itself is just fitting in our garage and it's difficult to maneuver in the narrow lanes leading up to my parents home, so the Hycross is a no go unfortunately mainly due to its size. The option to keep a driver might happen in the future, but for now, both my dad and mom (like to) drive on their own.

Originally Posted by UD17

Your car is too new to upgrade. I own 2013 Gen3 Honda City as my daily run, at 128K Kms. The car rides as new even now and is quite reliable. I too was etched to upgrade but instead i did:

Haha UD17, you echoed the reality. The car indeed looks fresh and a few upgrades will make it feel even better. I finished a solo trip yesterday and despite the heavy traffic , didn't end up with a sore clutch foot. The "point and shoot" nature of the car was fun and I was asking myself if this indeed needs an upgrade.


Thanks all for your inputs, it does look sensible to wait for 2-3 years before upgrading!

[Raghu M]

No reason for you to sell the City now IMO. It's just 41K on the odo, has a lot of juice left in it. But if your parents are feeling uncomfortable each time they get in and out, then that's the only reason for you to upgrade. You ruled out Indian make cars but included Nexon in the EV section. Any specific reason?

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

You ruled out Indian make cars but included Nexon in the EV section. Any specific reason?

Thanks for your inputs. We considered it on the rationale that an EV has less moving parts/points of failures, so higher reliability and lower visits to service center. I think the products from Tata/Mahindra are good and reliability goes up after in the facelifted /v2 models of their cars. It's the service support that we're worried about.

[ike]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

[/list]
Electric cars

1. Nexon EV (pre-facelift): All of us liked the car, but it's much smaller than our City. Tata's service remains a gamble. The facelift fixes any complaints we had with the lack of features.
   
2. MG ZS EV - refer my previous comment about MG
   
3. Hyundai Kona - My usual rental in the Netherlands, but it's small and boring to drive. Steering feels like it's not connected to the wheels.

It's great that you are considering EVs, and out of the list the Nexon is a very good car and Tata service is getting better. If your parents are based out of Thrissur(I assume from your location), there is only one dealership and they are good enough to handle routine maintenance. It is a different story if you run into something not very routine though.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Thanks for your inputs. We considered it on the rationale that an EV has less moving parts/points of failures, so higher reliability and lower visits to service center. I think the products from Tata/Mahindra are good and reliability goes up after in the facelifted /v2 models of their cars. It's the service support that we're worried about.

Makes sense. I'd like to tell you that the service and ASS of TATA and M&M have improved quite a lot. The mechanics and the overall performance of the vehicles is of high standards. I'd ask you to take a test drive and see how you feel about the showroom and the experience. You don't want to not consider a product that could have a good potential. I was of the same perspective and TDd the 3OO, it just blew me away. The service experience is decent and after 3 years of ownership, not a single niggle.

[Carpainter]

I also have a 2015 V MT ivtec. It's done even less mileage than yours. I've decided to keep it for as long as I can as it's the most trouble free cars I've owned right beside my Innova. If you plan to upgrade from it, it's hard to find these days specially with same reliability and fuss free ownership. Only a Japanese car will give you that. If you have to buy a new car you can consider Elevate. It's not really an upgrade but since you can't park a Hycross in your garage due to space constraints, this is the closest to City's ownership experience you'll get. Unlike me, If you're not obsessed with reliability and low cost of maintenance, you can go with any car you like from Hyundai to Skoda to Jeep etc.

[vsathyap]

We literally have the same setup - a 2014 City iVtec V MT thats run 45000 km and apart from the annual services, has been a blissful ownership experience with lots of fun drives around Bangalore and the southern states.

I dont see any reason to upgrade or move away from the City right now. The EV scene is still too foggy and extremely expensive for our usage patterns. Hybrids do make sense, but not from a finanacial point of view. There seems to be nothing that offers on par experience unless we shell out over 20 big ones. The City is a perfect no nonsense experience and I may just pamper it with some Detailing, damping and moving to a more modern head unit on its 10 year anniversary.

Took the car for a lovely drive around the Coast of Karnataka during the end of 2023 and it still surprises me and brings a smile onto my face when I drive it. Sharing a small pic of the car shot at sunset on the beautiful coastlines of Karnataka.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Thanks Lamborghini! You mention something very interesting . May I offer a counter opinion that some cars do combine all 3 - the City (fun, reliable & safe considering the crash test results of 4th Gen City in Thailand and in general, the results of Mobilio and Amaze tested in India).

It definitely did back in it's day - but in an era of turbo charged 1.5L engines, quick automatics, etc. I don't think it is as fun to drive as what it was - especially the CVT which is what you would be considering.

Also, the low seating is another reason it's not on your list - the crossovers scoring for practicality. I love my sedans, but I too cannot ignore the bad roads & lower seating as our families get older.

[subie_socal]

Imho, unless you are looking to move towards an automatic/ gearless(i.e EVs) given that your parents are the main users, I don't find a point in upgrading. The car is anyways running low, hence I would suggest to hold on to it, until it is in its last legs.