[CrAzY dRiVeR]

The curious case of India's compact sedans -

In the order of poll results -

[RSR]

If I were to buy one of these compact sedans now, it would be a petrol one (either AT or MT), unless my average daily driving distance increases dramatically.

I voted accordingly, for the Hyundai Xcent. The 1.2 Kappa Dual VTVT motor's sheer smoothness & refinement, very good drivability and linear power delivery till near the redline has left me impressed. This is on the heavier i20 and I'm sure the same engine would make the Xcent, which is lighter by a fair margin, very lively to drive.

Plus there are the usual Hyundai strengths - top notch interior quality, fit & finish and plenty of useful features (many of which are not found on competing cars), such as reverse camera, electro-chromic mirror, true keyless entry, push button start, rear A/C vent with twin adjusters, auto-folding & electrically retractable mirrors, Bluetooth & internal memory, rear arm-rest with cup holders etc. Then there is the well-shaped, largest (by a small margin) boot in class. LED DRLs and height adjustable front neck restraints are sorely missed, though. I hope Hyundai offers these soon, along with 6 airbags on the top variant.

If I were to buy a diesel car in this class, the choice would be more difficult. Not for the AT, as there is only one choice - the Tata Zest AMT. Since Tata are sadly not offering airbags on the AMT, I'd prefer to go for a manual, as there is no way I'm going to pay around 8 lacs for any car without at least one airbag, if not two.

Among the diesel manuals, it's a tough choice for me between the Zest and Xcent and Dzire. The Maruti Suzuki would be considered only if its upcoming facelift gets additional useful features, which seems likely (according to the scoops). In such a case, I'd carefully check and evaluate the three cars in person, take test drives and compare them thoroughly before making a decision.

[arunu]

I voted for Dzire.
My ratings goes as beow.
1. MS Dzire - simply outstanding reliability / best A.S.S / Cost of ownership / RESALE value even after 4+ yrs / Very good fuel efficiency. MS Legacy and strong brand value.

2. HMI Xcent - class leading interiors / decent performance / quality A.S.S / Feel good factor and pride in owning a premium car / value for money and brand value.

3. Tata Zest - Best car in the segment, at-least on papers. Actual performance needs to be seen over a period of time, say 1 year from the launch. TATA's average A.S.S needs to match up MS and HMI. For many, it will be a wait-and-watch strategy till the teething issues are taken car by TATA.

4. Honda Amaze - I have been an Honda owner for many yrs. Owned 2007 City (dolphin nose) and the later 2012 new design. These cars had premium feel and decent fit and finish. One of them was a top spec with leather interior and felt like a 10L car.

Honda Amaze with all the cost cutting glaringly visible, kind of let down Honda loyalists like me. I am dis-heartened to see the interiors of Honda Amaze / Brio / Mobilio and these cars dont feel Honda anymore.

[cnu]

I vote for Xcent as its a true VFM complete package. My second choice will be Zest (if Diesel) and Amaze (if Petrol).

[isandy]

I voted for Zest, especially the XMS variant which is pure VFM with key safety features like dual airbags and ABS with acres of interior space.

Definitely the best looking of the lot with projector lamps and LED tail light cluster.

It sports the best looking interior albeit not in league of Xcent in quality of materials.

I found the Revtron engine most driveable after Amaze petrol.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Xcent v/s DZire (In pics)

Cross posting only the most relevant items from my ownership post. More pics can be seen here.

1. Rear legroom for a 5'11" driver and passenger at the rear-

DZire -


Xcent -



2. Boot space -

DZire -


Xcent -



3. Looks -

[Sebring]

Both look awful. But the space comparo is realistic and well done. Helps one to take a call.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Maruti Dzire

What you’ll like:
• Priced lower than the outgoing Dzire. Noticeably better in most areas (quality, comfort, interiors etc.)
• Competent engine range. Very refined motors
• Absorbent ride quality, even over rough roads. Neutral road manners too
• Terrific fuel efficiency, especially from the diesel
• Effortless to drive in the city; light steering, clutch and gearshift. Automatic transmission available
• Maruti’s excellent after-sales service & wide dealer network

What you won’t:
• Oddball boot design. Side profile looks particularly awkward
• Small 316L boot & no folding rear seat either. Limited practicality
• Mediocre brakes (LXi / LDi & VXi / VDi), just like the mechanically-identical Swift
• Limited rear seat space is incomparable to the Manza, Etios, Verito et al
• Hefty 1.2 lakh premium for the Automatic transmission variant

Link to Official Review

Pros and cons of Dzire needs to be revisited now, since the Dzire review was compiled at a time when it was the only compact sedan available and was compared primarily against the other regular sedans and the old generation Dzire. It would be great if the mods could review this section and update it. (I'm suggesting the mods just to ensure that an impartial and matter-of-fact comparison would be done, just like what would have happened if Dzire was the 4th launch in the segment.)

For example, the "oddball boot design" is something that is applicable to all these cars. For others, they were pitted against the other players in this segment and hence some of these remarks didn't make it into the list. Again, the FE was terrific at that point, but it is nothing extra-ordinary at this time since the competition is also giving similar or better numbers.

[Mr.Hunt]

I voted for Zest.
We have test driven the Zest Diesel XT and have found interiors fit & finish good. The cabin space is good and legroom in front & rear is great. My partner found the gearshift little stiff but steering butter smooth (in comparison to Volkswagen Polo). Zest looks great in person and it has that big car feel. The added width makes it comfortable for 3 people in rear seat than the competition IMO.
The TD person from TaMo said that petrol gearshift will be smoother but we are yet to get a TD for the same. The showroom is 2 Kms from my house but I guess since the car is already selling like hot cakes they don't really care much about TD.
I am interested in the XMS Petrol variant since the XT petrol has not much to offer sans touchscreen ICE IMHO and it is a great package in its price.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Autocar India compares the petrols versions of these four cars and the results- 1. Hyundai Xcent 2. TATA Zest 3. Honda Amaze 4. Maruti DZire.

http://youtu.be/zLEdIWQz-_Q

[RSR]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Autocar India compares the petrols versions of these four cars and the results- 1. Hyundai Xcent 2. TATA Zest 3. Honda Amaze 4. Maruti DZire.

Hyundai do have a real all-rounder in the form of the Xcent, especially the petrol (both MT & AT). It tops this group in terms of features, interiors, NVH & overall refinement, boot space and (surprisingly) engine drivability as well. It scores quite well in all other areas too, and doesn't have any big flaw. To improve it further, Hyundai should include height adjustable front neck restraints, LED DRLs and auto-locking doors, plus offer 6 airbags as an option. I hope they add these during the car's mid life facelift.

Tata have made amazing (pun intended) progress with the Zest, to finish ahead of both Honda and Maruti Suzuki in this test. Also, the results might have been different if the diesel versions had been compared. Last month's sales figures show that the Zest (3,331) trails the Amaze (3,848) by a few hundred units, which in turn trails the Xcent (4,481) by a few hundred units, while the Dzire (16,964) remains way, way ahead.

The Dzire is going to get its mid life facelift very soon. The addition of useful new features is definitely going to make a difference, and it will make the Dzire a strong contender once again. Of course, you have the unmatched reach of Maruti Suzuki's sales & service network to back it up.

This would make the Amaze the odd man out in this group of sub-4m sedans. Honda would have to refresh the Amaze soon to keep it in the game. Some of the cost-cutting steps will have to be undone, useful features (like Bluetooth functionality, automatic climate control etc.) will have to be added, along with the much needed improvement to the interiors. I've heard that Honda is working on bringing about a reduction in the high NVH levels on the diesel Amaze, but don't know when the changes would make it to the market.

All said and done, the customer has never had it so good in the entry level sedan segment with such capable cars battling it out.

God bless competition!

[karzzexped]

Originally Posted by aseem

Again that time of year where all Tata cars start at top of the chart and then the dust settles, hype settles and cars become market duds.

What word do I have other than prejudice.

Originally Posted by aseem

I saw the same hype with Nano, Aria & Storm. I remember reading BHP review of Aria stating never seen before interiors, quality unlike Tata, inputs from JLR and what not. It was quite reminiscent when reading the Zest review talking about quality.

Nano - Wrongly marketed as the cheapest car.
Aria - No one accepted to pay that much for a totally competent TATA product at that price point.
Strome - Too minimalist a face-lift and too many competition.

Originally Posted by aseem

The car is going to be a dud! You know why, caz when the dust settles its an Indica shell & changing the lights or giving a new odd looking grill and calling it a humanity line or line of mankind or best thing that ever happen to human beings is not going to cut it.

As said earlier by another TBHpian it is from the Vista platform, not the Indica. Research please!

Originally Posted by aseem

All I see in this car is a Indica with better interiors, projector lamps and AMT transmission. Rest is all the same Indica shell thats been around for ages. Many children were born during this period and can vote and we have still the same old car. Its become like a new age Ambassdor of sorts.

Better interiors than the Dzire, Amaze, more spacious, better ride, innovative engine, if not marketing, VFM, first in segment features that even cars of the other segment doesn't have. AMT? Cheapest Diesel. And I think enough is said

Originally Posted by aseem

Regarding the polling, well its just a bunch of folks getting excited as there is something new. Once the excitement settles, you would see Zest failing to do well against the likes of Dezire & Amaze.

Well all polls have a result. It may be fruitful or may not be. Sadly, I think it is the latter for you.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by karzzexped

What word do I have other than prejudice.

The other word is "opinion". My opinion which is obviously at odds with yours. So please agree to disagree and lets move on.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Nano - Wrongly marketed as the cheapest car.

Disagree. Thats an "over simplistic" way of looking at it. There were a zillion issues why the car flopped. It was the delay in time to market because of land issues, not a value for money but a cheap car, not that cheap when compared to used Alto, and all the initial fire incidents (whether wrongful or rightful) permanently damaged its image.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Aria - No one accepted to pay that much for a totally competent TATA product at that price point.

Read some reviews of TBHPians who have bought the car. The car was plagued with issues. It was like Tata doing R&D on customers post launch. For the pricing part, the car doesn't even sell at 9 lakhs now.... So it was not the price!

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Strome - Too minimalist a face-lift and too many competition.

Storme again is case of old wine in new bottle for far too long. Remember ministers used to drive Safari in 1998 and it more or less looks the same.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

As said earlier by another TBHpian it is from the Vista platform, not the Indica.

The Vista was called Indica Vista initially and since it failed miserably they removed Indica name iirc. In any case Indica Vista was based on older generation Indica and all these offshoots including Zest look essentially the same. Engine wise hardly anything has changed as they use MJD, probably same transmission, suspension setup includes torsion beam rear. Apart from tail light, front light, new number, and upgraded interior its built on almost same underpinnings. Thats not necessarily a bad thing... however when the car has been a flop to begin (except taxi fleet) with and when you want to have an image makeover you need to go that extra mile.

Let the pictures do the talking.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Research please!Research please!

Unfortunately, I have a day job.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Better interiors than the Dzire, Amaze, more spacious, better ride, innovative engine, if not marketing, VFM, first in segment features that even cars of the other segment doesn't have. AMT? Cheapest Diesel. And I think enough is said

Lets dissect point by point:

1. Better interiors >> This is your opinion in my opinion its Dezire. If you talk build to last its the Amaze. If you talk gizmos its Zest. But I don't think Zest is a clear winner as I don't know how durable these interiors are. Only time will tell.

2. Spacious >> Yes. But then so have all Indica's in past. Or the Manza Limo for that matter. However its not just space that sells. Getz/Indica had more space then Swift. But see the numbers and market acceptability. Getz at least didn't have an image problem. Indica did. Its a fact, not my prejudice, I don't have an agenda against Indica or Tata, its just the way market perceived it.

3. Innovative Engine >> I am guessing you are referring to the Petrol as diesel is the same engine used left right and centre in the segment. And MUL has tuned the MJD the best. Coming to Petrol, well from whatever I have read, the Petrol Zest has turbo lag, is unexciting and diesel takes the cake. So having Narayan Kartikayne doing the advertisement won't make the engine fun to drive.

4. VFM is very subjective again. Buying a Tata Indica V2 fully loaded on road delhi was 4.2 lakhs in 2005 and Swift was 4.2 lakhs for Vxi. 5 years later Swift sold for 2.5 lakhs, similar aged Indica was selling for 1.5 lakhs. So which was more VFM? When calculating VFM resale also has to be factored.

The SX4 was more VFM then Honda City ZX however it was offset by Honda cheap spares/repairs and terrific resale.

5. AMT, hell yeah, agree with you. But its short-lived as almost all cars will have it in time including our very dear Alto. If Tata had given a DSG at the price, then we would have talked. Do they have a first mover advantage. Yes they do, but we need to remember Apple didn't make the first tablet.

Originally Posted by karzzexped

Well all polls have a result. It may be fruitful or may not be. Sadly, I think it is the latter for you.

I think you would agree Tata would like to be on top of the numbers chart month on month and being a winner of some TBHP thread but being a market flop would satisfy them.

In any case, I have nothing against Tata, I just feel the consumer deserves more then their philosophy of essentially rehashing old products like Safari and Indica. They need a complete redesign.

[karzzexped]

Originally Posted by aseem

The other word is "opinion". My opinion which is obviously at odds with yours. So please agree to disagree and lets move on.

Yes very well, you can have your opinion. But your cruel opinion was based upon zero experience (first hand) about the vehicle, assumptions and extreme prejudice against the brand.

Originally Posted by aseem

Disagree. Thats an "over simplistic" way of looking at it. There were a zillion issues why the car flopped. It was the delay in time to market because of land issues, not a value for money but a cheap car, not that cheap when compared to used Alto, and all the initial fire incidents (whether wrongful or rightful) permanently damaged its image.

Can you quote those 'ZILLION ISSUES'. And one of those main reason was people bad mouthing about a product without even experiencing it.(like you)

Originally Posted by aseem

Read some reviews of TBHPians who have bought the car. The car was plagued with issues. It was like Tata doing R&D on customers post launch. For the pricing part, the car doesn't even sell at 9 lakhs now.... So it was not the price!

Every car has it's fair share of niggles. Even the mighty Honda has it. Please go through the thread posted by Crazy Driver.

Originally Posted by aseem

Storme again is case of old wine in new bottle for far too long. Remember ministers used to drive Safari in 1998 and it more or less looks the same.

Yes, the design was evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Isn't this trend applicable to all manufactures.

Originally Posted by aseem

The Vista was called Indica Vista initially and since it failed miserably they removed Indica name iirc. In any case Indica Vista was based on older generation Indica and all these offshoots including Zest look essentially the same. Engine wise hardly anything has changed as they use MJD, probably same transmission, suspension setup includes torsion beam rear. Apart from tail light, front light, new number, and upgraded interior its built on almost same underpinnings. Thats not necessarily a bad thing... however when the car has been a flop to begin (except taxi fleet) with and when you want to have an image makeover you need to go that extra mile.


Unfortunately, I have a day job.

It was the exact reason why i asked to do proper research before commenting on a public forum.You just assume things.

Just by sharing the name plate or similar body shell doesn't mean that the cars share the same platform.

The earlier indica's used the Tata mobile platform introduced in 1988.

The Vista platform was developed in 2007 code named X1, which is an all new platform.

And a new generation Indica platform was released in 2009 for Indica, indigo and the like.So please don't assume things that cars having same name plate (and similar looks) should also have the same underpinnings.

And sir, the new gen swift used a different platform in 2011 to the one which it got introduced with, it also had the same name plate, similar looks and same diesel engine, so going by your theory the the new swift is the same as old one with minor tweaks.

"Probably same transmission", again assuming things without proper research the Vista used Fiat's C510 gearbox and the Zest uses in house TA65 gearbox.

Same Torsion beam rear ???? What do you expect at this price point?? Multi Link rear suspension, Sky hook ?? i also believe that hyundai elantra uses the same suspension at a expensive price point. So what's wrong.

Originally Posted by aseem

Lets dissect point by point:

1. Better interiors >> This is your opinion in my opinion its Dezire. If you talk build to last its the Amaze. If you talk gizmos its Zest. But I don't think Zest is a clear winner as I don't know how durable these interiors are. Only time will tell.

2. Spacious >> Yes. But then so have all Indica's in past. Or the Manza Limo for that matter. However its not just space that sells. Getz/Indica had more space then Swift. But see the numbers and market acceptability. Getz at least didn't have an image problem. Indica did. Its a fact, not my prejudice, I don't have an agenda against Indica or Tata, its just the way market perceived it.

3. Innovative Engine >> I am guessing you are referring to the Petrol as diesel is the same engine used left right and centre in the segment. And MUL has tuned the MJD the best. Coming to Petrol, well from whatever I have read, the Petrol Zest has turbo lag, is unexciting and diesel takes the cake. So having Narayan Kartikayne doing the advertisement won't make the engine fun to drive.

4. VFM is very subjective again. Buying a Tata Indica V2 fully loaded on road delhi was 4.2 lakhs in 2005 and Swift was 4.2 lakhs for Vxi. 5 years later Swift sold for 2.5 lakhs, similar aged Indica was selling for 1.5 lakhs. So which was more VFM? When calculating VFM resale also has to be factored.

The SX4 was more VFM then Honda City ZX however it was offset by Honda cheap spares/repairs and terrific resale.

5. AMT, hell yeah, agree with you. But its short-lived as almost all cars will have it in time including our very dear Alto. If Tata had given a DSG at the price, then we would have talked. Do they have a first mover advantage. Yes they do, but we need to remember Apple didn't make the first tablet.

So going by your words one should never buy a TATA product, isn't that right???

1) Better interiors- The styling is subjective, but don't bring your favoritism here.By the by, earlier vista's interiors were better screwed together than the rattle king Swift and Dzire.

2)Better space- Means more practicality than the cramped swift, so you can carry passenger better and comfortably , makes sense in large Indian family. I have heard that Indian's are practical minded people and practicality comes in the top of the pyramid when it come to buying and they contradict it with buying those cramped swift and dzires ( no offence to the owners)

3)Innovative engine- Hell yes!!! You would have been on cloud nine if maruti has done something similar, just because it's TATA you bash them. The engine was marketed as a commuter engine offering different driving modes to the common man. And sir, the zest sprints to 0-100 in 13.68 seconds in sport mode compared to Amaze's ( with world class i-Vtec) 12.5 seconds, despite being more than 100 kg heavier. (Source- motorbeam) It was never marketed as sporty engine and Narayan Kartikaynen was used to test the cars handling credentials not to promote it as a fun to drive car and the Zest was never meant to be one.

Turbo lag??? if you do proper research, ever read team bhp's official review?? You could find this quote

"Think of "turbo" and words like "lag" come to mind immediately. However, with the Zest, that isn't the case. The Revotron engine is nearly lag-free and moves eagerly. It's seamless enough that you never feel a lull before the turbo spools up."

So it's very much clear that you have no first hand experience about the car, and zero research about it and your comments are only based upon your assumptions and prejudice.

And, as you may know, even the mighty swift has turbo lag!!!!!!!!!

4) Yes VFM is subjective but I don't think it includes Resale value. When you talk about VFM you talk about the aspects of it, not about the money some fellow would give it after many years and most people don't sell their car after 3 years.

5) Ya they can even plonk a Ferrari's engine into it, would that have made it more desirable at that price point!!!! Look, you just want to ridicule the product and this is the most pathetic excuse for it.

Originally Posted by aseem

I think you would agree Tata would like to be on top of the numbers chart month on month and being a winner of some TBHP thread but being a market flop would satisfy them.

In any case, I have nothing against Tata, I just feel the consumer deserves more then their philosophy of essentially rehashing old products like Safari and Indica. They need a complete redesign.

Any given product has it's has it's fair share of shortcomings, to pick out the shortcoming and amplifying them as if other cars are flawless and making baseless assumptions is what is called prejudice.

And for you, if one supports Linea means he must be a owner or fan boy, but if he supports Honda he is not fan boy or a owner, brilliant analogy.

Sorry if I have Hurt you.

[ILTDrive]

I have a Dzire and voted for Zest. I like my dzire, no second thoughts about it, but after having seen the Zest, I believe it is more VFM than Dzire. Of course, the service is to be experienced to understand if TATA have really made any progress on that front.
Next in line would be Xcent and I would not touch Amaze with a straw.