Civic or Octavia?

Shan2nu · 30th June 2006, 20:51

Quote:

its a front wheel drive car. the hump is usually present in rear wheel drive cars, housing the drive-shaft that is used to turn the rear wheels.

Not entirely true. Some FWD cars have the hump (which houses the exhaust pipe/expansion chamber), which runs along the center of the car. The OHCs have this hump.

Thats why i mentioned the exhaust layout, when i heard this.

Shan2nu

devarshi84 · 30th June 2006, 21:17

First of all the buyer is totally inclined for the Honda civic. I dunno why he started the thread in the first place.

Now that he has, its better that he puts down his priorities.

Good looks are performance are Skoda's forte while Running costs and FE are Civic's forte with the margin not being much.

MrBoombastic · 30th June 2006, 21:52

ST, I have walked in the shoes you are walking in now, so, here are a few pointers for you....

1. Refer my post in some thread way back in Oct 2005 on some thread which I really can't remember on this forum.. Buddy, the Civic is a SOHC... 132BHP or even 140BHP keeping up with the RS/ Rider is a distant dream to it... Add to that the driving dynamics and supreme handling that the Skoda vRS offers to you at any speed and I'm amazed no one even speaks of the Indian Civic being a SOHC .... We all know it's supposed to behave like a 1.5/ 1.6 for better fuel economy too. Ask any friend who owns a Civic (1.8) in the ASEAN market if you have one and he/ she will tell you how sorry the 1.8 really is (even when compared to the Altis).

2. You yourself know (and rightly know) that the Civic HAS TO BE UPGRADED in a year or two... No leather, no audio contorls on steering and no foglamps (foglamps which only add to the aesthetic value and nothing more, but yet nice if given) in the Indian market in 2006? LOL What a joke! If Skoda was rightly or wrongly smoking dope on the Laura, Honda is sniffing Bibek Moitra's stuff on the Civic. The Corolla which the Civic battles heads on gives all these on their existing model and the Corolla is also a DOHC (as is the Skoda vRS + 20v). I know even the vRS doesn't have audio controls and a 6cd changer, but is the vRS being sold as a luxury car or a driver's performance car?

3. As Amit (even for the initial hype) and Rtech have rightly pointed out, even the Corolla's instrument dial screws up big time when it comes to reflection... Something I told Ajay when a few of us Chennai BHPians were driving down to Pondicherry and Ajay said he wished he had the dials on my Karela... oops! Corolla!! If you think the Civic is better on this, I'm sorry, it's only worse. A few may say I speculate, but time will tell who talks out of their exhaust.

4. Just give what Bomi has asked you to try... You will understand he makes sense.... Of course, only if you're looking for driving pleasure and a blissful smile after every drive.

5. No one could've helped you better than Amit on this thread, what he says makes sense. Am I a fan of Amit? No! Amit and me have locked horns on several occasions on this forum, but when he is right, he is right. Again, refer to my posts back in 2005 and you will understand how Amit and I relate, we are like a husband and wife who love and hate each other at the same time lol ( NOTE: NIETHER OF US IS GAY OR BI... At least, I'm not for sure lol)

I could go on and on, my friend, but you need to ask yourself honestly what are you looking for from the car you drive as Team-BHP has given you a very wholesome and totalistic guidance so far. Am I saying that the Skoda vRS/ Laura/ etc is a better than a Honda Civic? I would like to say no, but as of now, it is if you're looking for driving pleasure, you can't deny that. Am I saying the Honda Civic (indian Civic) is a better car than the Skoda vRS? No! It all depends from what you're looking for from the car you own/ drive. I know it's always easier said than done, but at times, one has to be a man, know what he wants and then, call the shots.

Best of luck and may God be with you in your choice... Wishing you a happy and fulfilling purchase... Regards, Boom (The clueless idiot who has driven/ owns most of the cars he comments on).

The million dollar question... Boom, will you put your money where your post is? As always, Boom says, Inshah Krishanji, Allah, Jesus and Wahe Guru! in less than 20 days, the vRS will join the other babies in his garage.

Also, the hump you refer to is the transmission tunnel and it's called Flat Floor Technology... something I had in my signature in 2005.

ST7677 · 3rd July 2006, 11:43

Manson
The initial Octavia launch and it's pricing was a fluke which worked rather than a strategy... Probably because they didint; knew that all indian manufactures charge a premium on Diesel, or may be the diesel and petrol plants costed them same...

If their strategy was good they wouldn't have launched Petrol Superb first and saw the product die, till they realized their mistake and then launched a diesel Superb! Inspite of thier Octavia success, they were dumb enough not to realize that their strength is their diesel motor, in India.

Further, Regarding pricing wrt Accord, Octavia does not compare with it...

Dev,
I am not inclined towards either at this point. I am just confused and hence started this thread

You might have formed your opinion by seeing me posting posts on Civic features, but that is only as I am exploring it I am sharing it with Team BHP...

Boom,
Ideally I would have wanted to go for the New Octavia 2.0 TDI 140 BHP Diesel with DSG gearbox (which is not launched in Indian Market). If that was available here for under 20L then I would begged borrowed or stolen to buy it...

Now I am hoping to buy something for 2-3 years and than relook at my options (hoping that above is available by then). Keeping that in mind, at present I can only stretch my budget to 13-14 lakhs. But the vRS is around 16 lakhs on Road in BLR, so that leaves Civic and Octavia Rider TPI/TDI to decide from.

Anyway folks, your inputs have been really helpful, please keep posting...

manson · 3rd July 2006, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Manson
The initial Octavia launch and it's pricing was a fluke which worked rather than a strategy... Probably because they didint; knew that all indian manufactures charge a premium on Diesel, or may be the diesel and petrol plants costed them same...

fluke or perfection, skoda managed great numbers from day one inspite of having 0 brand value in our country, face it, the brand was unknown to more than 70% (if not more) skoda owners in India, before they entered the Indian market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

If their strategy was good they wouldn't have launched Petrol Superb first and saw the product die, till they realized their mistake and then launched a diesel Superb! Inspite of thier Octavia success, they were dumb enough not to realize that their strength is their diesel motor, in India.

i clearly specified that i was talking only in terms of the ocatavia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Further, Regarding pricing wrt Accord, Octavia does not compare with it...

in a way many a buyers would compare the octavia with the old accord and go for the ocatvia as it was almost as big in terms of size, and was a diesel which implied SASTA RAUUNING COSTS.

manson.

devarshi84 · 3rd July 2006, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Manson
The initial Octavia launch and it's pricing was a fluke which worked rather than a strategy... Probably because they didint; knew that all indian manufactures charge a premium on Diesel, or may be the diesel and petrol plants costed them same...

If their strategy was good they wouldn't have launched Petrol Superb first and saw the product die, till they realized their mistake and then launched a diesel Superb! Inspite of thier Octavia success, they were dumb enough not to realize that their strength is their diesel motor, in India.

Further, Regarding pricing wrt Accord, Octavia does not compare with it...

well if I am skoda, I am not dumb enough to play the octavia petrol diesel launch the same way as ford mondeo after the big failure it had. even mondeo came out at 14 lacs with same pricing for both diesel and petrol models.

But skoda had too much going for it. they didnt advertise at all and let the word of mouth do the talkin. believe me I didnt know about skoda until 1-2 months. And it was the first D segment entry level notchback.

No other company except HM does incomplete homework.

Petrol superb died a natural death. In India mercedes-benz commands a premium which very few brands like BMW and Audi can. Skoda certainly is not the car. Not even a HOnda or toyota can beat that. Diesel superb was an exception as those who seek deisel luxury in India usually look at VFM( my opinion)

when considering pricing of Skoda RS with Accord, they certainly compare. Look at the kit you get with skoda. Its certainly is worth the money.

A Skoda Laura( forget the name) is touted as a better car by many which I have to agree after seeing the US Accord compare to the VW Passat.

Skoda cars are better buys for many which constitutes a smaller segment of people than honda fans. I am one of em'

ajmat · 3rd July 2006, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

...

Ideally I would have wanted to go for the New Octavia 2.0 TDI 140 BHP Diesel with DSG gearbox (which is not launched in Indian Market). If that was available here for under 20L then I would begged borrowed or stolen to buy it...
...

Agreed 100% on this

Some sobering facts about the RS Turbo engine

1.8 20v engines are snapping their timing belts at 70,000 - 80,000 miles and the extensive damage this causes is not repairable. The car will need a replacement engine.

1.8 20v timing belts are difficult to replace. TDIs also have waterpumps prone to failure, but driven by an auxiliary belt so not so much of a disaster.

1.8 20Vs also suffering problems with air mass sensors which cost around £200 to replace.

If the dealer has the competence to sort these out, might be worth a plunge but remember karthik247's experience!!!

ST7677 · 3rd July 2006, 16:23

I had gone to TAFE Access Skoda dealership on the weekend for test drive (1.8T Rider & Laura), but damn, these guys could not arrange a test drive vehicle!!!

First they refused to send the car for test drive (most companies send it at your door steps), then even after fixing the appointment, when I reached there, they didn;t have the vehicles, that's attrocious...

Instead, I test drove 1.9TDI and came back.

devarshi84 · 3rd July 2006, 22:52

that's really bad. uh! by any chance are you underage or do you look underage?

that can be the reason. But the car should be sent to your house.

aah78 · 3rd July 2006, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Not entirely true. Some FWD cars have the hump (which houses the exhaust pipe/expansion chamber), which runs along the center of the car. The OHCs have this hump.

Thats why i mentioned the exhaust layout, when i heard this.

Shan2nu

thanks for the revelation - i really was under the impression that only RWD cars have the hump for the drive-shaft.

i did travel in a friend's OHC 1.5 (not VTEC) a couple of years ago but i don't remember noticing it. what about the Octavia - does that have a flat floor?

ST7677 · 4th July 2006, 09:55

Well Dev, I am on other side of 30, and most probably I look older than that.
Have driving license for last 10 years and have owned 2 cars...

That was just careless attitude of Skoda dealership.

Aah78, Octavia does have a big hump, even Laura has it. And as far as I remember almost all Indian cars have one, irrespective of being FWD or RWD.

goldie_malhotra · 4th July 2006, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by aah78

thanks for the revelation - i really was under the impression that only RWD cars have the hump for the drive-shaft.

i did travel in a friend's OHC 1.5 (not VTEC) a couple of years ago but i don't remember noticing it. what about the Octavia - does that have a flat floor?

both the OHC and skoda, and for that matter, most other cars that i recall, have this hump at the back.

its tough to miss if you happen to sit in the middle of the rear seat, and have the added misfortune of having long legs

navin · 4th July 2006, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

1.8 20v engines are snapping their timing belts at 70,000 - 80,000 miles and the extensive damage this causes is not repairable. The car will need a replacement engine!!

Is that miles or KM? I hope it is miles! :-(

What if one gets the timing belt changed at say 40-50K? Wont that prolong the life?

ajmat · 4th July 2006, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Is that miles or KM? I hope it is miles! :-(

What if one gets the timing belt changed at say 40-50K? Wont that prolong the life?

Miles but I would get a belt change at 50k for peace of mind. Get the tensioners changed as they are made of plastic (I think!).

One issue - is the Skoda dealer compeent enough to do this ?

devarshi84 · 4th July 2006, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Well Dev, I am on other side of 30, and most probably I look older than that.
Have driving license for last 10 years and have owned 2 cars...

That was just careless attitude of Skoda dealership.

Aah78, Octavia does have a big hump, even Laura has it. And as far as I remember almost all Indian cars have one, irrespective of being FWD or RWD.

Well, that's really bad. I would seriously check out the Honda dealership. See how their response is and let that be the deciding factor.

A dealership is an important part of the process. IS there any other skoda dealer? If the Skoda dealer is not good then stay away.

30th June 2006, 21:17	#32
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 212 Times View My Garage	First of all the buyer is totally inclined for the Honda civic. I dunno why he started the thread in the first place. Now that he has, its better that he puts down his priorities. Good looks are performance are Skoda's forte while Running costs and FE are Civic's forte with the margin not being much.
	() Thanks

30th June 2006, 21:52	#33
MrBoombastic BANNED Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Chennai Posts: 253 Thanked: 6 Times	ST, I have walked in the shoes you are walking in now, so, here are a few pointers for you.... 1. Refer my post in some thread way back in Oct 2005 on some thread which I really can't remember on this forum.. Buddy, the Civic is a SOHC... 132BHP or even 140BHP keeping up with the RS/ Rider is a distant dream to it... Add to that the driving dynamics and supreme handling that the Skoda vRS offers to you at any speed and I'm amazed no one even speaks of the Indian Civic being a SOHC .... We all know it's supposed to behave like a 1.5/ 1.6 for better fuel economy too. Ask any friend who owns a Civic (1.8) in the ASEAN market if you have one and he/ she will tell you how sorry the 1.8 really is (even when compared to the Altis). 2. You yourself know (and rightly know) that the Civic HAS TO BE UPGRADED in a year or two... No leather, no audio contorls on steering and no foglamps (foglamps which only add to the aesthetic value and nothing more, but yet nice if given) in the Indian market in 2006? LOL What a joke! If Skoda was rightly or wrongly smoking dope on the Laura, Honda is sniffing Bibek Moitra's stuff on the Civic. The Corolla which the Civic battles heads on gives all these on their existing model and the Corolla is also a DOHC (as is the Skoda vRS + 20v). I know even the vRS doesn't have audio controls and a 6cd changer, but is the vRS being sold as a luxury car or a driver's performance car? 3. As Amit (even for the initial hype) and Rtech have rightly pointed out, even the Corolla's instrument dial screws up big time when it comes to reflection... Something I told Ajay when a few of us Chennai BHPians were driving down to Pondicherry and Ajay said he wished he had the dials on my Karela... oops! Corolla!! If you think the Civic is better on this, I'm sorry, it's only worse. A few may say I speculate, but time will tell who talks out of their exhaust. 4. Just give what Bomi has asked you to try... You will understand he makes sense.... Of course, only if you're looking for driving pleasure and a blissful smile after every drive. 5. No one could've helped you better than Amit on this thread, what he says makes sense. Am I a fan of Amit? No! Amit and me have locked horns on several occasions on this forum, but when he is right, he is right. Again, refer to my posts back in 2005 and you will understand how Amit and I relate, we are like a husband and wife who love and hate each other at the same time lol ( NOTE: NIETHER OF US IS GAY OR BI... At least, I'm not for sure lol) I could go on and on, my friend, but you need to ask yourself honestly what are you looking for from the car you drive as Team-BHP has given you a very wholesome and totalistic guidance so far. Am I saying that the Skoda vRS/ Laura/ etc is a better than a Honda Civic? I would like to say no, but as of now, it is if you're looking for driving pleasure, you can't deny that. Am I saying the Honda Civic (indian Civic) is a better car than the Skoda vRS? No! It all depends from what you're looking for from the car you own/ drive. I know it's always easier said than done, but at times, one has to be a man, know what he wants and then, call the shots. Best of luck and may God be with you in your choice... Wishing you a happy and fulfilling purchase... Regards, Boom (The clueless idiot who has driven/ owns most of the cars he comments on). The million dollar question... Boom, will you put your money where your post is? As always, Boom says, Inshah Krishanji, Allah, Jesus and Wahe Guru! in less than 20 days, the vRS will join the other babies in his garage. Also, the hump you refer to is the transmission tunnel and it's called Flat Floor Technology... something I had in my signature in 2005. Last edited by aah78 : 3rd July 2006 at 23:20.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2006, 11:43	#34
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Manson The initial Octavia launch and it's pricing was a fluke which worked rather than a strategy... Probably because they didint; knew that all indian manufactures charge a premium on Diesel, or may be the diesel and petrol plants costed them same... If their strategy was good they wouldn't have launched Petrol Superb first and saw the product die, till they realized their mistake and then launched a diesel Superb! Inspite of thier Octavia success, they were dumb enough not to realize that their strength is their diesel motor, in India. Further, Regarding pricing wrt Accord, Octavia does not compare with it... Dev, I am not inclined towards either at this point. I am just confused and hence started this thread You might have formed your opinion by seeing me posting posts on Civic features, but that is only as I am exploring it I am sharing it with Team BHP... Boom, Ideally I would have wanted to go for the New Octavia 2.0 TDI 140 BHP Diesel with DSG gearbox (which is not launched in Indian Market). If that was available here for under 20L then I would begged borrowed or stolen to buy it... Now I am hoping to buy something for 2-3 years and than relook at my options (hoping that above is available by then). Keeping that in mind, at present I can only stretch my budget to 13-14 lakhs. But the vRS is around 16 lakhs on Road in BLR, so that leaves Civic and Octavia Rider TPI/TDI to decide from. Anyway folks, your inputs have been really helpful, please keep posting... Last edited by aah78 : 3rd July 2006 at 23:19.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2006, 16:23	#38
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	I had gone to TAFE Access Skoda dealership on the weekend for test drive (1.8T Rider & Laura), but damn, these guys could not arrange a test drive vehicle!!! First they refused to send the car for test drive (most companies send it at your door steps), then even after fixing the appointment, when I reached there, they didn;t have the vehicles, that's attrocious... Instead, I test drove 1.9TDI and came back.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2006, 22:52	#39
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 212 Times View My Garage	that's really bad. uh! by any chance are you underage or do you look underage? that can be the reason. But the car should be sent to your house.
	() Thanks

4th July 2006, 09:55	#41
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Well Dev, I am on other side of 30, and most probably I look older than that. Have driving license for last 10 years and have owned 2 cars... That was just careless attitude of Skoda dealership. Aah78, Octavia does have a big hump, even Laura has it. And as far as I remember almost all Indian cars have one, irrespective of being FWD or RWD.
	() Thanks