[Aroy]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

Thanks Aroy. The new Scorpio is really eye-catching. I spotted a test mule near Kolkata some days ago. But again the same problem, only available in diesel.

Actually diesel SUV is a better bargain, both from torque and cost point of view. The Gypsy will never cross 10km/L,/ while the bigger more powerful diesels with a body twice as heavy will.

From fun point of view I believe the Duster 4x4 will be the best option for traveling in hills.

[s_pphilip]

A close friend of mine is in a quandary, he likes two cars (my likes are contagious, I keep yapping about 'em) but has the budget for only one unfortunately, so he follows the next plausible step, asks me, I think over a lot but give up, my heart goes weak for both anyways.


So here I am writing, I know this is not fair, as apart as chalk and cheese, but for a buyer the different segments/classifications are just theoretical, what matters are competent options within that budget.

So torn between Duster AWD and Vento/Polo DSG (I am suggesting Polo TSI DSG for the value advantage in terms of pricing, there is an advantage of about 2.5L over Vento, if you are fine trading off the rear seat comfort and boot. For Vento DSG Tdi that difference will go up by another lakh, Polo TSI DSG is about 9.2L in Goa).

Firstly purchase criteria, and why these,
(there is no time crunch so purchase tips into new year, also car will be purchased on EMI, will stretch till Duster):

- Adequate power to overtake on highways trips when overtaking at 90 or so (both I believe should be equal here).

- Feel safe at 120/140 kmph on expressways (I guess Polo/Vento has better safety ratings).

- Rear seat space is a plus but not a defining criteria at this point, the car will occasionally seat more than 3 total and 60-70% times will carry only the one driving.

- DSG is desirable, it is something we have fallen in love with.

- Average everyday speeds will be about 80 kmph and high speed runs are only for expressways.

- Good tight handling, shouldn't be like an elephant or boat.

- Should glide irrespective of what the surface is (guess Duster earns a lot of points here).

- Boot space not a defining parameter but let me add Duster will be favored because I guess we can load a cycle inside after folding the rear seats.

- Good interiors - Polo has hard plastics but preferred over Vento b'cos of black dash, Duster - sub par interiors.

- Features aren't a deal breaker, car should be fundamentally competent.

- Good looks - both look good, but we simply like the Vento.

- 4x4 with ESP catches our fancy, there are enough areas around Goa where it can come to good use, farms, creeks, slush (I understand Duster is not hard core but it can take you further).

- Long distance comfort, should be able to cover 1000+ kms overnight on those occasional runs.


Secondly random arguments that comes up in my mind :
* I am inclined towards Polo for that brilliant DSG which makes overtaking a breeze but the Duster has an excellent diesel motor which requires few shifts.

* Since it is that DSG influencing us, we can get a used Laura DSG which is a better sorted FTD machine at the price of a Polo DSG, we'd enjoy it more.

* Counter-Argument, Tsi - DQ200 peak torque capacity is 250 Nm hence it is safer in the under utilized Polo/Vento Tsi, lot of buffer.

* Vento Tdi DSG, torque is at its 250Nm limit, so doubtful in the long run with heating and other issues.

* Conversely older 6 speed DQ250 is reportedly more reliable, hence a pre-owned Laura Tdi may be a safe bargain, efficient too.

* Polo/Vento should be a safer car then Duster despite both having same level of safety kit.

* Polo will be amazing around corners, ESP + DSG combo lethal.


Thirdly points in favor of Duster, a close second:
- Brilliant ride. Period.
- Reliability.
- 4x4 utility - super fun to have as can take you that extra mile.
- Immensely tractable motor/GB.
- Bicycle loading capacity.
- Good sporty/comfortable handling.
- Leh/Ladakh/Assam is no longer distant.

Two of my favorite cars from different eras are Tuscon and Yeti, the Duster is a more affordable competent cousin.

What the Duster gives us is a care free ownership and go anywhere aura while the VW DSG makes you witness technical sophistication, both tugs special strings and wish someone could help us rob a bank to pick 'em up.

[RishiSuri]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

So here I am writing, I know this is not fair, as apart as chalk and cheese, but for a buyer the different segments/classifications are just theoretical, what matters are competent options within that budget..

Firstly I would like to compliment you on a very detailed description of your requirements and also categorizing the car in your opinion you feel is better.

Reading all the above and knowing few friends who have VW Polo GT and Duster, my personal recommendation would be to go with VW Polo.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[humyum]

I would say the Duster any day. The DSG is something which is a question mark in India. Neither does the company care to recall anything in India, neither will the DSG last all the grueling Indian cycle for long. After the warranty will be over, you will have a 'Kab ayega toofan ?' face till the DSG shows its ugly characeter, why all that ?

Go for the AWD Duster, clutch has been made light, turbo lag has been taken care of, ride quality has further improved. Mileage has gone up by a 1 kilometer, gear ratios are much shorter and better to drive in and more over its reliable. What more can you want?

[D4D]

If your requirement doesn't require a lot of space, my I suggest the ecosport 1.0 Ecoboost. But the rear seat in not the most spacious, boot is small etc.

Firstly, I don't think you'll be driving a lot to need a diesel. The city is a good choice here.

That said, the Duster AWD has things like better fuel economy, little offroading capacity and lack of turbolag going for it. So it is the better choice among the Dusters, but at a premium.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

What the Duster gives us is a care free ownership and go anywhere aura

That's exactly what the DSG cars won't give you. My choice is the Duster hand down.

[D4D]

The 4th gen City does take in speed breakers well as mentioned in many ownership review. It's also got stiffer suspension setup, so it must be good on most of the roads.

As you pointed out, it's more luxurious, cheaper, has a better safety rating etc.

Check this out to clear confusion:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...uv-debate.html

[ZedMae]

I have had these thoughts occur time and again. To put things in perspective, I drive a Fiesta 1.6 and though there is a silly grin when I take it to twisty roads, I do hate its hard suspension and low clearance when I drive on bad roads. The enhanced thud that filters into the cabin every time I go over a pothole makes me cringe.
So I guess the best option would be to get something which is kind of a jack of the two trades mentioned rather than something which is excellent in one criteria and poor in the other.

[Vandit]

Well I am in the same quandry. For my needs, on the go anywhere category, I zeroed in on the Ecosport (suits my budget and my space requirements) but graduating from the OHC means i still love the sporty dash and precise handling of a sedan (Honda's refinement has spoiled me).

The trouble is i guess with the Indian market not offering such a wide range of choices within brands/models in terms of engine and drivetrain options to cater to the mixed characteristics that one would like to see in sedans and SUV/MUV's i guess

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by humyum

I would say the Duster any day. The DSG is something which is a question mark in India. Neither does the company care to recall anything in India, neither will the DSG last all the grueling Indian cycle for long. After the warranty will be over, you will have a 'Kab ayega toofan ?' face till the DSG shows its ugly characeter, why all that?

Now that's a true issue, however I am one of those lingering on T-BHP who is willing to give VW chances, only b'cos their products are excellent. Moreover I know of few who are happy with their Skoda's and VW's. Of course none have completed 1.5L kms or have aggressive driving styles.

I have a Fabia Tdi and except for the odd electronic expensive part going kaput, by and large has been a reliable run and joy to drive. In fact Fabia was my most recommended car as it is immensely versatile so we have a few among friends, fortunately till date none have turned enemy for recommending Fabia, surprisingly some still thank me as some Fabia virtues aren't there even in new launches.

With the Polo it will be a calculated risk, the 175Nm of torque should not exceed safe limits no matter how you drive, so overheating which is the problem should not occur ideally.

Originally Posted by D4D

If your requirement doesn't require a lot of space, my I suggest the ecosport 1.0 Ecoboost. But the rear seat in not the most spacious, boot is small etc.

Though Ecoboost is a unique well packaged product, somehow am not blinded by it as much as am with the Tsi, mainly b'cos of the DSG or lack of it. I have expressed earlier too that we absolutely loved the DSG and the good part about Polo Tsi is that the torque is within limits so rate of failure theoretically should be low.

That DSG has us keep even pre-owned Laura Tdi in contention as the DQ250 isn't as controversial as the DQ200.

Though having GC is good, it is not a key parameter for us as we slow down on uneven rough patches, however between Ecosport and Duster, I'd prefer Duster just for that heavenly ride.

On uneven roads, the Polo too exhibits reasonable comfort and I would rate it equivalent to Ecoboost, its here Duster walks away with the crown.

Originally Posted by D4D

Firstly, I don't think you'll be driving a lot to need a diesel. The city is a good choice here.

Noted from your signature that you are a pro-petrol person. Yes Diesel/Petrol won't make much difference as its habitat is Goa where petrol is cheaper.

And well we don't rake in heavy usage on individual cars as multiple cars (mix of diesel/petrol motors) shares yearly accumulations, however put together we do run a lot, quite easy since anywhere in Goa, you do about 70-80 kms daily just travelling to office, leave aside weekend or highway runs.

Originally Posted by humyum

... What more can you want?

Originally Posted by D4D

... but at a premium.

Exactly, I'd reduce points from Duster for 2 related reasons, firstly it is overpriced and secondly for that price it is under specced.
Common, for 15 large ones cant they give better plastics at least, it commands more premium than better built cheaper sedans which cannot be digested, neither can it be considered as a economy SUV cos of its price.

20L is way off the mark for us currently, else it would be Yeti 4x4 eyes closed, I prefer the earlier eccentric looks, so we would have got better deals as well, only thing dealers don't have so many in stock for desperate sales.
Wish Duster was as well made as the Yeti.

Originally Posted by D4D

The 4th gen City does take in speed breakers well as mentioned in many ownership review. It's also got stiffer suspension setup, so it must be good on most of the roads.

As you pointed out, it's more luxurious, cheaper, has a better safety rating etc.

City no doubt is an excellent all rounder, but it does not tug strings as say Tsi, it is no different from all the regular cars we drive everyday.
Alternately the Duster / Polo are different, one is 4x4 - go anywhere type and other has DSG with go-kart ability.

We have since long been shying away from DSG's b'cos of product unaffordability, now pre-owned Laura's can be had in that budget or new Polo/Vento, though I'd prefer former for the multi-link and diesel power. DSG impresses us for that instant acceleration.

4x4's we've little exposure to, Goa has a lot of Thar's has constantly attract our attention to the 4x4's badges and makes us want one for their perceived invincibility.
If you ask me, we are those typical car biased (comfort & speed) guys otherwise, personally never been a fan of Scorpio etc for un-car like behaviour, but Duster is different.

Originally Posted by D4D

Check this out to clear confusion:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...uv-debate.html

Yup, had skimmed through, GTO starts the argument by saying sedans are the way to go unless you need GC etc, but as the arguments progress, it is skewed towards SUV's.
Between Polo DSG/Vento DSG/Duster AWD, the Polo can be had for almost 3/5th of the Duster AWD's price.

My current thought says since 4x4's trends will never die in auto history, we can always pick a more satisfying 4x4 sometime later as Duster does not cut the mustard due to its interior plastics but then every Thar on Goan roads (Goa has plenty Thar's) reinforces our desire for 4x4.

Originally Posted by ZedMae

So I guess the best option would be to get something which is kind of a jack of the two trades mentioned rather than something which is excellent in one criteria and poor in the other.

Which is how the Duster creeps into this predicament, else this question wouldn't be here as we are in love with the DSG, head over heels.

Duster attracts us because it will be much more comfortable and stress free on those 1000+ kms runs, Leh/Ladakh has been inviting us since long. Apart from the DSG (huge factor of course) the Polo will be like any regular car (just for argument sake).

[D4D]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Noted from your signature that you are a pro-petrol person. Yes Diesel/Petrol won't make much difference as its habitat is Goa where petrol is cheaper.

This part was intended for the other BHPian who had posted. He said he'll drive 8~9k km annually.

Exactly, I'd reduce points from Duster for 2 related reasons, firstly it is overpriced and secondly for that price it is under specced.

But Duster is a fantastic car and there's no denying that. It's priced high, but what makes the price look too high is the XUV500 which is steal compared to the Duster.

Yup, had skimmed through, GTO starts the argument by saying sedans are the way to go unless you need GC etc, but as the arguments progress, it is skewed towards SUV's.

My current thought says since 4x4's trends will never die in auto history

The Duster is not your typical body-on-frame SUV, so it's a monocoque crossover. It's a great compromise for people who want GC of an SUV and a performance and efficiency of a sedan. It's not meant to wander into really tough off-road terrain.

[petrolhead_neel]

The Ford Classic might be old, but its still a great car. The VFM factor of this car is just awesome. Ford's inconsistent service experiences and high cost of spares is a pain though.

The other car which we thought about is the new Swift ZXI facelifted version, going to be launched soon. Its another great car. The all new Swift is coming in 2017, can't possibly wait so long.

As this is gonna be our first car, it has to be fuss-free. As I told in my earlier posts, the car has to be safe, fun to drive, reliable, and should have good build quality, if not built like a tank. BHPians please help!!

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

The Ford Classic might be old, but its still a great car. The VFM factor of this car is just awesome. Ford's inconsistent service experiences and high cost of spares is a pain though.

Neel, if you're looking for a petrol only car and are fine with a Ford, why look at the Fiesta Classic? The Fiesta is where it's at. Check out this pic and tell me Paprika Red doesn't look va-va-voom! http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3559793

I considered buying one myself about 2-3 years back, but the engine killed the deal for me. It doesn't do justice to the car, which has superb balance and handling. A remap can easily change that though.

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

The car has to be safe, fun to drive, reliable, and should have good build quality, if not built like a tank. BHPians please help!

I think I did reply to you earlier, but here's a list of cars you should check out. I'm listing out petrol only options since you seem averse to diesels.

1. Polo GT TSI
2. Ford Fiesta (New)
3. Fiat Linea T-Jet

If you're fine with a used car, the Civic should be the first stop, period. Built superbly, looks stunning inside out even today and is a really nice car to drive too. the Ground Clearance issue is easily sorted, and the spares are no issue with Honda. Needless to say, since it's a Honda it will be reliable to the last.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

I think I did reply to you earlier, but here's a list of cars you should check out. I'm listing out petrol only options since you seem averse to diesels.

1. Polo GT TSI
2. Ford Fiesta (New)
3. Fiat Linea T-Jet

Ford Fiesta (New) is no longer available in petrol. There are only 3 variants and all are diesel only.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Ford Fiesta (New) is no longer available in petrol. There are only 3 variants and all are diesel only.

Well damn, that sucks. So Ford has gone from that fantastic 1.6 ltr engine to a smaller engine that was adequate to completely phasing out petrol entirely

Thanks for the info, had no idea about this.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

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My current thought says since 4x4's trends will never die in auto history, we can always pick a more satisfying 4x4 sometime later as Duster does not cut the mustard due to its interior plastics but then every Thar on Goan roads (Goa has plenty Thar's) reinforces our desire for 4x4.



Which is how the Duster creeps into this predicament, else this question wouldn't be here as we are in love with the DSG, head over heels.

Duster attracts us because it will be much more comfortable and stress free on those 1000+ kms runs, Leh/Ladakh has been inviting us since long. Apart from the DSG (huge factor of course) the Polo will be like any regular car (just for argument sake).

I say go for Duster. There are very few roads (or tracks) you would drive on that require 4x4 low ratio, unless you are traveling regularly on mud/snow and jungle trails a normal 4x4 suffices.

The advantages of Duster are its suspension, hence ride. It is much better than most of the <30L offerings, add to that generous GC and a better low end torque in 4x4, and you have a go any road vehicle. The problem with Thar is the soft top - no safety for your things and the rear seats, apart from indifferent interiors. Further the Duster has better FE.