[download2live]

There will be a "Camera scam" which will be exposed in a year or two from now by CAG.
The cameras will be stolen. Or will stop working after few months.
Nothing will change on the roads.

OT: Reminds me of a traffic cop in Hyderabad who instead of brandishing that dreaded notepad where they write the numbers of the offenders, was openly flaunting a tiny Point and Shoot.
But did not had much effect. Incorrigible Hyderabadies still raced past the red signal. And he was left clicking their picture showing to others that he meant business. I wonder if govt paid for the point and shoot. Oh I love my India.

[issigonis]

>>>

Whereas cars have become more user friendly, reliable, faster, lighter, safer and so on, our roads have not improved correspondingly by way of consistency of surface, signages & lights, service lanes, shoulders and so on. Even more importantly, traffic density has increased. So better cars with higher cruising speeds trade off with inconsistent quality of roads and massive traffic density. Add to it our world class civic sense and discipline. The result is chaos.

Solutions such as increasing the speed limits, creating uni directional traffic flows, installing speed guns are at best partial, short term solutions with limited effects.

Our powers that be have to look at the larger picture, viz. rapid urbanisation and economic growth ( whatever we have in the last twenty years) leading to a more comprehensive urban use policy so that traffic moves more efficiently and cost effectively : reliable, clean & ubiquitous public transport; fair & strict traffic discipline & quick penalties; better road management - right from design to build to operate and maintain;differentiated licences based on skill & vehicle type and so on and so forth.

It is difficult to create such an environment since we have many Indias in our nation - we have the India of the educated salaried middle class who loves to be law abiding but who is frustrated by the strangulating bureaucracy and the archaic laws; we have the India of the urban poor hanging on to dear life as a rootless migrant working as a cleaner or driver who follows his instincts and who is ignorant of the law and only understands the power of money and corruption; then there is the India of the powerful who can get away with everything - if required public works can be modified to suit private interests.

I do not think much will change drastically for the better - cynical as I am, I know we have a genius for muddling through, accommodating the interests right or wrong, of all. That is exactly how it will play out here as well.

And some of us will break the law and when caught will happily apply the grease and proceed with their merry way.

Regards

[amitayu]

Speeding is just one of the problems of Delhi traffic...weaving is perhaps the most dangerous one...vehicles shift lanes without any indicators, take sharp turns without any warning, and cut in from the left-side without even blowing the horns!!
I keep a steady pace of around 50-60KMPH during my drive to office, but my eyes take some strain darting between the 3 mirrors!

[Fusion2006]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

There is no tolerance limit in Delhi. I have been challaned for doing 81kmph on DND when speed limit was 80. Considering, that most equipment has an error tolerance of +/-5%, this is actually official robbery.
I expect the limits to be brought down further after this move, as they need to recover the cost of cameras.

Isn't the posted speed limit on DND 70 kmph rather than 80?

Last 2 weeks or so I have seen the cops sitting on the side (towards Noida) most mornings around 8.30am using their speedgun to check cars. The sight of everyone's brake lights coming on is a good sign that the cops are out that day!

[deeps79]

It was 80 earlier. They changed it to 70 in last one year or so.

Originally Posted by Fusion2006

Isn't the posted speed limit on DND 70 kmph rather than 80?

Last 2 weeks or so I have seen the cops sitting on the side (towards Noida) most mornings around 8.30am using their speedgun to check cars. The sight of everyone's brake lights coming on is a good sign that the cops are out that day!

[ra'ul M]

Originally Posted by itaughtthestig

In 4 hours they recorded 600 cars breaking the speed "limit". If a law is so openly/frequently broken, why don't they think that maybe something is wrong with the law itself and not the people who break it?

There is nothing wrong with the law. It has to be limited to a specific limit which is set considering all the vehicles plying on the road and not just fast cars. If you think about it, the laws in other countries are also similar with much better cars and roads. Don't you think they get the urge to test their horses.
It's all about getting the traffic organised and what can't be measured can't be controlled.

Originally Posted by itaughtthestig

With the speed limits already so unrealistically low, what is one supposed to do? My college commute is 25 km long and is mostly on highways with 50-60 km/h limits. Going at a top speed of 50 would mean it'll take an hour to get there.

One can take the public transport or in India's case maybe not . If your college is 25 kms away you will reach there in 30- 35 mins including the pauses at lights.
The reason why you think it will take an hour is the very problem of rampant lawlessness that the hapless chaps are trying to address.

What is your reaction to this move?

If implemented in isolation it will fail and we will end up with the cops getting bribed, cameras getting stolen and lanes being cut.
But it is a step in the right direction in terms of getting the traffic organised.

Do you guys think this would actually work?

It could. It should ideally be implemented with stricter driving licence issuing rules, impetus to public transport, more cameras and a fail safe challan issuing mechanism which does away with one on one conversations with low ranking cops. Also, it should first be put in practice for the VIP's. More often than not you see people using the other offenders as an excuse to get out of paying a challan.

Will they raise the speed limits?

Eventually yes, if they get it to work in it's present form. You got to understand the importance of learning to walk properly before you start running.

Will the cameras hopefully get stolen? :P

Seriously dude. Please don't support vandalism even if it's in good humor. We really don't need any more thieves in this country.

What can we, as citizens and TBHP-ians do about this?

Follow the rule! And even create awareness about it. Public roads are not meant for drag races. Remember that it does not require both parties to make mistakes for an accident to happen.
A case in point:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...y-injured.html

And go to race tracks to satiate your need for speed. Maybe these threads will help you:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...1-circuit.html
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...cuits-too.html

There is a time and place for driving fast and it's not the public roads

[akshay4587]

What is the speed limit on New stretch of Ring road around ITO and Raj ghat?
I have been frequently using this stretch,and every time,however hard i may try,i reach 3 digit speeds,the stretch is butter smooth,and virtually traffic free at all times.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Fusion2006

Isn't the posted speed limit on DND 70 kmph rather than 80?

Last 2 weeks or so I have seen the cops sitting on the side (towards Noida) most mornings around 8.30am using their speedgun to check cars. The sight of everyone's brake lights coming on is a good sign that the cops are out that day!

It used to be 80kmph
Then an auto driven on the wrong side collided head on with a swift. Cops concluded that speed must be the cause of the accident, and lowered limits to 70kmph.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

It used to be 80kmph
Then an auto driven on the wrong side collided head on with a swift. Cops concluded that speed must be the cause of the accident, and lowered limits to 70kmph.

Another accident for whatever reason, and the limit will be further lowered on DND to 50, or even 20! Great vigilance with hidden cameras and so on is no substitute for sensible speed limits.

And we BHPians are so fond of talking about great handling cars! Better give me the softest suspensions!

[rambo1o1]

Speed guns are finally intoduced in delhi! I guess if you want to fool those guns you can get these:
Amazon.com: Cobra XRS9370 High Performance Radar/Laser Detector with 360 Degree Protection: Car Electronics

I think they are illegal in India.I dont support the breaking of laws or finding loop holes in it but just making people aware all the options available to them!

Anyway I dont know if the use of these in anyway increase the rate of accidents or decrease but its legal in UK and most states in the US!!

HowStuffWorks "How Radar Detectors Work"

[Suess]

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Another accident for whatever reason, and the limit will be further lowered on DND to 50, or even 20! Great vigilance with hidden cameras and so on is no substitute for sensible speed limits.

And we BHPians are so fond of talking about great handling cars! Better give me the softest suspensions!

(I am taking your thread RadiantKarma only as a sample but this is about the general theme going on here except 1 or 2 "sensible" replies.)

define "Sensible"? and it will be making sense only to you.

Point is if speed limit is reduced to 20kmph for some reason, we need to follow that and that is the most sensible thing to do. but instead of doing that or following that we are complaining about it and blaming others, asking to catch other offenders, looking for the ways how to avoid, steal these cameras.

Good cars, better cars doesn't give anyone a license to violate the laws. For discipline you need have a rule which applies same to all without size, color and make!(i am refering cars/vehicles in general).

How many accidents we hear and see everyday on indian roads and in particular Delhi? if police is trying to help us, we better co-operate.

These replies and thread show at least one thing that we will be carefull in future about speed not rocketing just because raod is empty or "i am late" or i can't leave 15-20min earlier for office.

Originally Posted by rambo1o1

Speed guns are finally intoduced in delhi! I guess if you want to fool those guns you can get these:
Amazon.com: Cobra XRS9370 High Performance Radar/Laser Detector with 360 Degree Protection: Car Electronics

I think they are illegal in India.Anyway I dont know if the use of these in anyway increase the rate of accidents or decrease but its legal in UK and most states in the US!!

Originally Posted by tsk1979

It used to be 80kmph
Then an auto driven on the wrong side collided head on with a swift. Cops concluded that speed must be the cause of the accident, and lowered limits to 70kmph.

when does that happen? as far i remember, i was there in december'11 and it was 80kmph for private cars and 50kmph for commercial vehicles.

[vagu]

I support this and wants DTP to install these camera all over the city.
Most of the accident in Delhi happen because of the "abe bhaga na, koi nahi dekh raha hai"(speed up nobody is watching) attitude , atleast now they will have to think before they speed up.

The debate on speed limits is totally irrelevant until our public learns road manners. I have seen people cutting lanes at 70-80kmph without even looking in their mirrors , unless we learn how to drive properly on road speed limits should not be increased.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by vagu

The debate on speed limits is totally irrelevant until our public learns road manners. I have seen people cutting lanes at 70-80kmph without even looking in their mirrors , unless we learn how to drive properly on road speed limits should not be increased.

Dear Friend I was born in Delhi and I drive really responsibly. I am 27 years old and have never ever even remotely touched anybody's car ( been driving from last 10 years across 3 cities ie Delhi, Bangalore and Calcutta). Now I really feel speeds of 50 kmph on many stretches in the day and many more in the night is totally ridiculous. I am not sure if I want to suffer all my life in the hope that others on the road learn how to drive. I have this one life and I really want to enjoy it. People will never learn. They didn't learn when the cops started challaning them. They didn't learn when DTP introduced cops on bikes concept. They didn't learn when the Govt banned the use of dark films, no cell phone etc. They didn't learn when the challan amounts were increased manifolds. They didn't learn when speed interceptors were introduced. They didn't learn when every morning news channels showed gory images of lives lost in various accidents across the city due to rash driving... This can go on and on.

So people who are morons and not fit to be called humans would still not learn. You think a handful of cameras would solve the issue? No it wont. All it would do is penalise the normal law abiding citizens. And please let me point out here is that driving fast and driving rash is different. The DTP needs to adapt to the today's world. Speeds of 50 is just stone age era speed.

Sorry for the long rant.

[Ricci]

Should everyone follow rules merely because they have been prescribed ? Are we people or are we sheeple ? Rules are (or should) never (be) arbitrary , there must be calculated/reasoned process behind it - much like right-of-way ; a mix of physics and economics.

If we are to silently submit to any rule, we will be slowly enslaved , already happening in fact. Someday they will pass a 30km/h speed limit , when cars and roads can safely do 3 times that. What sense does it make ? Then we might has well have speed governors and forget about passion and performance , cars can be dull automatons and nothing more. I fully understand the risk of speed, I also understand most of India's drivers are careless/ill-trained/incompetent. But if everyone must suffer for the minimal capabilities of the lowest denominator, the weakest link in the chain, then there is little use of all the progress we have made and let's just go back to the safe stone age.

Speed limits ought to reasonable, law enforcement more discerning than blindly fining all those observed over the speed limit ,where/when it may be perfectly safe to do 100km/h in a 70km/h zone , and you might be risking an accident at driving at 30km/h in a 40km/h zone - depends on the road , traffic and weather/visibility.

What I see is merely another trick to raise revenue via fines. What should be done is improve driver training and licensing standards, as well as road/infrastructure conditions. Look at the muck/gravel many roads become, even 20km/h is too fast some times, if you're on two wheels esp.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Suess

(I am taking your thread RadiantKarma only as a sample but this is about the general theme going on here except 1 or 2 "sensible" replies.)

define "Sensible"? and it will be making sense only to you.

Point is if speed limit is reduced to 20kmph for some reason, we need to follow that and that is the most sensible thing to do. .

In a perfect world, where limits are put by traffic engineers based on road safety, it would be sensible to follow speed limits. But they are often made by people with a MA in history who just cleared an exam(no offence to history majors, just an example). Would you get yourself treated for an ailment by somebody who is a phd in civil engineering?
This is what ails the speed limits in India(as well as west). They are taken as a source of revenue generation, not safety.
The end result?
Traffic police focus on this, and ignore many other dangerous offenses, and this eventually results in more accidents and chaos on road.

Now you may say traffic police have our best interests at heart, but I would not believe you. I have seen traffic lights with yellow of less than 2 seconds in Delhi(instead of recommended 4-5 seconds). Atleast in the US the city which did this was sued and had to pay back the fines, but here, who do you think will sue delhi police?

Drive on the ring road at night and you will see them haphazardly coming in front of trucks, causing risk of pile up. And guess what if pile up happens, they will say "speed limit needs to be 30 instead of 50". never mind their ill-qualified members trying to experiment "policing!"