[KryptonMonkey]

Originally Posted by ramki.grandhi

Sad to see these numbers.... Is this because amaze didn't have 6 airbags?

The explanation is provided in the opening post (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by ron178

The Honda Amaze scored 2 stars because of the lack of ESC and curtain airbags, despite having strong performance in the front and side impact tests. Poor dynamics of child occupants resulted in zero stars for child occupant protection.

Unfortunately one has to read deeper into the results to understand that the Amaze has performed pretty well in adult occupant protection, including having a stable bodyshell integrity (frontal) that is capable of withstanding further loadings.

Full report: https://www.globalncap.org/s/Honda-A...sheet-2024.pdf

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Here’s the Honda Cars India official statement responding to the Amaze's showing in the latest Global NCAP crash tests.

Pardon my choice of words, but that statement reflects stupidity more than anything else. It is like saying, "I went into a firefight with a helmet and a revolver. If I had worn a bullet proof jacket and carried an assault rifle, I could have done better and prevented injury to self".

What prevented Honda from giving 6 airbags and ESC as standard ? If Hyundai can afford to do it in all its cars, so can Honda.

[Raghu M]

Bolero Neo is no premium offering but still the scores are no excuse. Carens is a huge surprise given the nos. it's selling monthly. The premium offering at almost 20 lakhs upwards scores a miniscule 3*. What about the customers who bought the same car between May and Dec 23? Can't imagine such an expensive car scores dud on the crash safety scores.

[John316_WRC]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

What prevented Honda from giving 6 airbags and ESC as standard ? If Hyundai can afford to do it in all its cars, so can Honda.

Hyundai can afford to give 6 airbags & ESC because of the inferior "ultra high strength steel" they use (which can withstand the weight of an elephant!) and serious cost cutting in all their platforms for the Indian market. Our lawmakers are oblivious and we customers are blinded by features. The Carens result is really scary. Infact the Amaze scores double the points in front impact test than Carens and has a stable bodyshell. I'm yet to see a Hyundai/Kia with a stable bodyshell integrity.

The star ratings are not all, thankfully we have experts like ron178 who can break these results down and give us a better understanding.

[Kashi053]

Its not that Hyundai/Kia don't know how to engineer a safe product. Its just that ignorant attitude towards India and other developing countries resulting in poor safety ratings and unstable bodyshell.

Kia - When you are providing safe cars in North America, EU and Australia etc. Whats stopping you to treat India the same way?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by John316_WRC

Hyundai can afford to give 6 airbags & ESC because of the inferior "ultra high strength steel" they use (which can withstand the weight of an elephant!) and serious cost cutting in all their platforms for the Indian market. Our lawmakers are oblivious and we customers are blinded by features. The Carens result is really scary. Infact the Amaze scores double the points in front impact test than Carens and has a stable bodyshell. I'm yet to see a Hyundai/Kia with a stable bodyshell integrity.

The star ratings are not all, thankfully we have experts like ron178 who can break these results down and give us a better understanding.

I am not at all enamored by fancy stuff frankly. But my central point is Honda is acknowledging that they are not conforming to the GNCAP for reasons that they can easily address. They are not some new cheap toy maker in town. They have a huge automotive history, even in India, and it does not behove them to come up with statements like these.

[frez_fr]

So many people are asking here why some manufacturers are treating Indians not in the same way they treat the US, Europe, and other countries. The below link answers that question.

https://www.rediff.com/money/report/...y/20200929.htm

Put in simple words, the Indian government thinks "Cars are an elite consumption" and that's why they tax so much but in other mentioned countries they are a basic family need.

And can you guys ask the Indian manufacturer Mahindra, why they are not treating the Bolero owners the same way they treat XUV700, ScorpioN, and Thar?

[ToThePoint]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I am not at all enamored by fancy stuff frankly. But my central point is Honda is acknowledging that they are not conforming to the GNCAP for reasons that they can easily address. They are not some new cheap toy maker in town. They have a huge automotive history, even in India, and it does not behove them to come up with statements like these.

It's not the question of they can or can't, it's most probably down to the fact that current Amaze is EOL product and new one is one the way which will most likely have both these features.

Honda doesnt indulge in jugaad engineering. If the car was not engineered for 6 air bags, they won't provide it no matter where market moves. They are pretty conservative in that sense.

[Bhuvan]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

What prevented Honda from giving 6 airbags and ESC as standard ? If Hyundai can afford to do it in all its cars, so can Honda.

The same question came to my mind, the way Honda India management is running their ship is simply beyond my understanding. Amaze is not cheap by any means and a fairly decent product ignoring the cost cutting. Hyundai making 6 airbags mandatory in their unsafe offering was a sales tactic that is paying well but Honda India can challenge a snail for their decision making speed. Amaze with ESC and 6 airbags will be way more value for money, also why the CVT variant misses on cruise control is a secret like Coca Cola formula that no one could ever know.

Kia/Hyundai position themselves in market where Maruti fails, any average individual who sits in a Hyundai will be simply blown away by the product as a whole and won't dig deeper to other aspects especially safety, Kia Carens is nothing new.

Bolero Neo always appeared to be at least 4 star car backed by Mahindra's outlook towards safety but not everything that glitters is not gold.

[Rohitthebest]

This was pretty much expected (not from Honda though).
I wonder why they even tested Bolero in the first place.
Carens - looking at the size I believe even three stars is good for the car.
Eagerly waiting for New Celtos / Creta testing as and when done if they actually do it now looking at these results.

[ron178]

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised at the Amaze given its lack of equipment: it is just another one in the crop of “old five star”* cars engineered for just that and nothing else. It joins the Altroz and ICE Punch in that club. At least those 2 now have ESC, but from 2024 GNCAP wants even optional curtain airbags for 3 stars.

Honda really shot themselves in the foot here by not sponsoring the Indian Amaze before 2022.

*Why do I say five star? Because if anything this new test confirms the Indian Amaze would have been five-star (not 4) if rated before 2022.

Earlier, the African Amaze had to be limited to 4 despite a 5-star score because:
- it didn’t have a seatbelt reminder for the passenger-side
- its ECE95 compliance was unknown.

The Indian Amaze has always had an SBR for the front passenger (required by law) and the new side impact results show that dummy readings for all parts are comfortably over the ECE95 thresholds. It meets all criteria for five stars against the previous protocols.

Now, what’s done is done. The Amaze is well past its sell-by date when it comes to safety; heck, even the i10 has three-point belts, 6 airbags and ESC and the new Dzire is rumoured to as well. I hope to see not only more safety spec in the next Amaze but also enthusiasm to get it tested.

[fawad0222]

Originally Posted by m8002?

Which platform is Carens based on? Creta or Verna?

If Creta/Seltos/Carens share the platform, it could be the reason for Hyundai not doing the BNCAP crash test.

Carens is based on Sonnet's platform, not the Seltos' unlike Alcazar which is based on Creta's.

Regards

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

GNCAP rating is getting to a point where reading a deeper analysis makes more sense than just looking at the stars given each year. Its high time they do away with simple star rating and break the information down in a way that will not confuse car owners: present and prospective.

Absolutely true. We need to now get a 2 step rating in stars.

1. Crash Performance - where the car's structural performance, deformation, bodyshell, pillars, stability for further loading should be evaluated + the result of the dummies and impacts. Exactly like the previous GNCAP
2. A 2nd set of stars - for Active/Adaptive safety feature availability, scores on paper. ESC, Seatbelt reminders, ADAS/2, Number of airbags over mandatory 2, Secondary braking after crash, any autonomous features and so on.

Without these - right now like BHPian AsitKulkarni mentioned elsewhere - the Verna with an unstable body-shell is currently rated better than the Honda Amaze - which actually had a respectable crash performance, but scored less due to less electronic wizardry.

[sanjeevs]

The good thing is that previously KIA Motors have at least started testing their models under GNCAP norms to ascertain and sort out safety the issues. Previously KIA motors were dead silent on the crash test norms and they were simply not bothered on the crash ratings. It will be interesting to see the results for KIA Seltos and won't be surprised if both are based on the same platforms.

From here on the HONDA might add some more safety requirements before they launch the newer amaze model.

I was taken in for a surprise to note the poor GNCAP ratings for Mahindra Bolero Neo where it should have scored higher ratings. The way forward for Mahindra is to go for a new platform as far as Bolero Neo is concerned and improve upon the crash ratings.

[Contrapunto]

I think a two pronged approach is needed.

(1) Like a credit rating, Global NCAP safety test ratings should be made mandatory in all car advertisements - without exception. The rating for the lowest end trim should be advertised.

(2) Insurance rates for lower rated car MUST be set higher, naturally since the risk is higher. This sets up a monetary disincentive for choosing lower safety (of course, the lower cost of the lower trim, usually with less active security would offset that).

Finally, Indian buyers have to vote for safety with their wallet. Unless we change our fatalistic approach to safety, nothing will change.