[RM Motorsports]

Open March 1977 - Collapsed March 2024.

[anjan_c2007]

Absurd to read and know about the ship and the bridge. There are no backup devices, alarms, triggers when such ships go out of control, with healthy, fit and living persons aboard.

Had this happened in the medieval or the late medieval ages or even in the 19th or till first half of 20th century, it could be tagged as unavoidable. But on this day in 2024, such an incident happening in one of the most developed and powerful countries of the world, compels us to take a retro trip back to the medieval ages.

[Rodie09]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Absurd to read and know about the ship and the bridge. There are no backup devices, alarms, triggers when such ships go out of control, with healthy, fit and living persons aboard.

Had this happened in the medieval or the late medieval ages or even in the 19th or till first half of 20th century, it could be tagged as unavoidable. But on this day in 2024, such an incident happening in one of the most developed and powerful countries of the world, compels us to take a retro trip back to the medieval ages.

Pretty common (at least not rare) occurance in modern shiping across the world. Just that this time the consequence has been disastrous because of back to back power failures. I think you are not able to comprehend the scenario of a mammoth vessel losing all power and going with the flow in sea currents.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Absurd to read and know about the ship and the bridge. There are no backup devices, alarms, triggers when such ships go out of control, with healthy, fit and living persons aboard..

I can guarantee you they all kinds of back up systems, the alarms, sirens and strobe lights in the engine room would have gone berserk!

Ever been in an engine room with alarms going off?

What is unfortunate is that they suffered a black out. It’s rare, but it does happen now and then.

Ships are pretty complex state of the art pieces of machinery. But they don’t get designed with the same safety approach as say aircraft. And even aircraft have their share of problems.

You do need to put these incidents in a larger context. How often does this happen, how many ships are there, how often are these ships in a situation where a black out causes immediate safety concern.

You don’t have to do the math. It is still an incredible small chance of these sort of incident happening.

Can it be avoided? Yes, but there is always the next thing. Aircraft have not stopped crashing altogether. As the saying goes, shit happens, even when you have spend a tonnes of money and resources to prevent it.

Jeroen

[AMG Power]

Ship was managed by Indian firm with largely Indian crew:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...565684670.html

https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/sto...dustry-2954699

[arnieshwartz]

I found an interesting article that goes on to talk about how an obscure 19th-century law once invoked by the owner of the Titanic could be used to possibly reduce the exposure to damage claims.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Absurd to read and know about the ship and the bridge. There are no backup devices, alarms, triggers when such ships go out of control, with healthy, fit and living persons aboard.

I was only an accountant doing payroll of shippies and paying bills for various ship related purchases. But I have been through the nooks and corners of our three ships (chemical tankers) except into the tanks themselves. The bridge and engine room will have all kinds of emergency alarms and back up systems. I have seen samples of fuel taken and kept in sealed containers every time they refuel. So if fuel was taken in at a US port, it can easily be checked. The ships can't be without certain key personnel as per maritime rules (Master and CHENG definitely, may be a few others too) even when it is simply standing in harbour, leave alone sailing out of it. And a local pilot will compulsorily be on board as required by law.

This seems to be the rarest of rare occurences when everything went wrong at the same time with little time to react. Had this happened in open ocean, it would have been no sweat. They might have simply repaired it even if it took hours and would have moved on. In hindsight, probably the port authorities could have mandated compulsory engagement of tugs till all ships clear all the bridges.

As Jeroen said, ships are may be not designed with aircraft level of safety. But then they don't fall out of the sky if engines fail. They will simply float till repairs are done or a tug comes for help.

[Mystic]

There are 2 parties to this tragedy. One is the ship itself and a lot of experts have already talked about it. The other party is the bridge which is my interest as a person who has done research in civil engineering. I think we need to learn something from this incident in general across the world.

The concerned bridge is of a very old design and technology of 20th century and is not good enough for ships of 21st century. To upgrade the bridge to present requirements is not feasible due to prohibitive costs even for USA. May be this bridge is not a priority for upgrade as there are far more hundreds of bridges which are in worse situation.

I am sure India is not in a better position and we have a lot of bridges which need urgent repairs and serving beyond their life span. Similar to USA, India doesn't have the budget to upgrade all of the bridges. May be if a bridge collapses for whatever reasons, it will be a breaking news for few days and everyone forgets even though we all know the value of human lives lost. Some of our bridges / barrages built about two hundred years back (designed and constructed with best QA by the very respected British engineer Sir Arthur Cotton who is still worshipped as a God in that region of Godavari) is still operable. In the present world, we often hear bridges collapsing during construction stage itself due to bad QA.

[pgsagar]

At the risk of sounding silly, what I ask is, should the tugs have not been deployed, to take the vessel past the bridge? I live in a port city myself, Vizag. Now, I am not in anyway related to port, shipping or maritime but as a layman I have observed vessels going in and out of narrow channel-entry into the port's finger jettys. And, I always see two tugs fore and aft of vessels guiding in and out of the harbour. Not sure exactly what they do. Anyway, I don't see these tugs in that Baltimore video. Or, do they do things differently in US of A?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Mystic

The concerned bridge is of a very old design and technology of 20th century and is not good enough for ships of 21st century.

This bridge was opened in 1977, by which time I was 25. It is a youngster!

I am not an engineer, but I am pretty sure that almost nothing is built to take the rarest of rare disaster. As members of a motoring forum, we know very well how, for instance, our cars come out of a bad collision with a very heavy truck.

As an engineer, could you please tell us what bridges would survive a full hit on one of their supports by a ship of this size? I am not qualified to say, but I doubt if many, if any, are. Why? Cost/risk. The cost would become huge to minimise a tiny risk.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

At the risk of sounding silly, what I ask is, should the tugs have not been deployed, to take the vessel past the bridge?

Let's refer this one to our professionals on the thread...

I'm thinking, and wondering, what would tugs have done in the very short time in which this emergency developed? Pushed the bow to port, maybe. But ships tend to pivot, so the stern could have come to starboard. The tug that tried such a thing could find itself in a suicide position.

And, I always see two tugs fore and aft of vessels guiding in and out of the harbour. Not sure exactly what they do. I guess that they aid the ship in manoeuvring: eg taking much tighter turns than it may be able to do alone.
Anyway, I don't see these tugs in that Baltimore video. Or, do they do things differently in US of A?

The USA does often do things differently. Being a highly litigious country, risk would probably be minimised. Are people here forgetting that such a collision as this never happened at this, one of America's busiest ports, before? There was a tiny chance of accident. Probably much smaller than the risk we all take when we get in our cars to drive. It was hardly navigationally challenging (by the looks of it to an amateur): get the ship through a reasonably big gap. After being properly lined up, you could probably pass the bridge with eyes shut.

And I suspect that it would take a fleet of tugs to make any difference to this last-minute failure. That is not going to be provided to every large ship, every day!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Seafarers: what Marine online publications can you recommend for following this ongoing story?

I ask this because the story is soon fading from the every-day media,and developments on the shipping/enquiry side of things may not be quickly reported.

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

This bridge was opened in 1977, by which time I was 25. It is a youngster!

I am not an engineer, but I am pretty sure that almost nothing is built to take the rarest of rare disaster. As members of a motoring forum, we know very well how, for instance, our cars come out of a bad collision with a very heavy truck.

As an engineer, could you please tell us what bridges would survive a full hit on one of their supports by a ship of this size? I am not qualified to say, but I doubt if many, if any, are. Why? Cost/risk. The cost would become huge to minimise a tiny risk.

The short answer is Yes. Bridges are designed to take direct impact. There are too many variables that might have gone wrong in this case and will definitely be a case study of interest to engineers. Even if a new bridge is reconstructed shortly to withstand such impacts, we have to see what would be the probable size of the ships in 50 years from 2024. As this is an old bridge more than 5 decades old, one never knows the extent of deterioration of the concrete especially in a marine environment.

The strength of concrete is very important and we have come a long way from 70s to now in this field. Just to give you an idea of how strong it can be designed in case of prestressed concrete nuclear structure. It can withstand an impact of an aeroplane on a nuclear plant.

I have my own doubts if an evaluation of this eventuality has been done as a due diligence even by an advanced country like USA for such old bridges and its strength after deterioration using non destructive tests (in a scenario of the movement of large modern ships.)

[BlackBeard]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm thinking, and wondering, what would tugs have done in the very short time in which this emergency developed? Pushed the bow to port, maybe. But ships tend to pivot, so the stern could have come to starboard. The tug that tried such a thing could find itself in a suicide position.

And I suspect that it would take a fleet of tugs to make any difference to this last-minute failure. That is not going to be provided to every large ship, every day!

I ask this because the story is soon fading from the every-day media,and developments on the shipping/enquiry side of things may not be quickly reported.

If a powerful tug (sufficient BHP/Bollard Pull) had indeed been made fast to the stern of the ship prior commencement of the transit it would certainly have made a difference in slowing it down together with dropping the anchor (s) perhaps even stopped it completely. Last minute pushing & shoving a vessel well underway is not possible!

Regular updates can only be obtained from the local news channels on you tube I guess?
Once the accident investigation is complete you may try the NTSB web site if they put it up there. MPA Singapore, the flag state of the ship certainly will also be involved in the investigation maybe they put it up later on their website (unlikely).

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Mystic

The short answer is Yes. Bridges are designed to take direct impact. ... ...

The strength of concrete is very important and we have come a long way from 70s to now in this field. Just to give you an idea of how strong it can be designed in case of prestressed concrete nuclear structure. It can withstand an impact of an aeroplane on a nuclear plant.

Thanks very much for that.

Originally Posted by BlackBeard

If a powerful tug (sufficient BHP/Bollard Pull) had indeed been made fast to the stern of the ship prior commencement of the transit it would certainly have made a difference in slowing it down together with dropping the anchor (s) perhaps even stopped it completely. Last minute pushing & shoving a vessel well underway is not possible!

It makes sense that that would be the only possible way. And, in this instance, there was really not much time.

Thanks for the update advice too.

I think we have to wait a while now before anything new comes through. The next thing will be recovering the ship.

But it can't be too long: they really, really want that port open again. I read that US$60-million is the cost of just cleaning up

[BlackBeard]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Thanks very much for that.

I think we have to wait a while now before anything new comes through. The next thing will be recovering the ship.
But it can't be too long: they really, really want that port open again. I read that US$60-million is the cost of just cleaning up

You're welcome.

Clean up operation will be expensive. They have to clear the ships bow, move the ship out. Survey the channel for underwater debris to ensure safe passage of ships, clear that if required. Clear out the broken sections of the bridge (heavy lift cranes, divers, barges...etc)

[arnieshwartz]

This article in Business Insider contains interesting insights as told by a seasoned ship captain who spent 13 years navigating the globe on large ships.