[manasr28]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If any member who owns one can physically check and post here, it will be easier.

I own a 2023 June Z6 manual Diesel 2WD which has clocked 5K kms with 90% of it being highway driving.
This is how the suspension setup looks now. Faced no issues whatsover till date with the setup.
I have attached pictures of both right side and left side setup.

[bobbyblr]

So there is only one set of nut and bolt for the upper wish bone ?

And it's safer to have a split pin or cotter pin on the bolt with a washer after the nut so that the nut does not fallout during vibrations. See below image for usage of this pin.

Image source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_pin



Also the bolt looks like it's rusted.

[greyhound82]

Originally Posted by d3mon

During the manufacturing process, defects can be hidden under the surface, which requires techniques like X-ray inspection to figure out. So it's all about quality control of the production process

Off-topic: This field is known as NDT, Non Destructive Testing. We use Eddy current, X-ray/CT, ultrasound, Hyperspectral imaging, visible imaging, Infrared imaging and magnetic particle inspection for finding defects in automotive components, FMCG, oil and natural gas pipes etc. There are inline 100 per cent inspection and batch-wise sampling inspections too. We even work with semiconductor OEMs for defect detection in wafers for measurements less than 10 microns

These days companies are trying to map process parameters with quality and create a feedback loop to control the quality in an automated manner. The said process to quality function is more data-driven than physics-driven. I hope this kind of issue will be of less occurrence in future

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by bobbyblr

So there is only one set of nut and bolt for the upper wish bone ?

And it's safer to have a split pin or cotter pin on the bolt with a washer after the nut so that the nut does not fallout during vibrations. See below image for usage of this pin.
.

These nuts need to be tightened to a specific value. The knuckle clamps on a tapered machined surface of that upper bolt. When the nut comes of the friction of this tapered connection should hold everything together as well. You would need a special tool, such as knuckle splitter. You might get it to loosen up by repeated whacking the knuckle with a heavy hammer.

A properly installed cotter pin will never ever fall out! Even if the nut was not tightened sufficiently, the cotter pin will ensure the nut won't come off. You might end up with a bit of play, but nothing more serious.

Jeroen

[Sanjay_Sangar27]

My 2 cents on the information I gathered through dealer and service center.

Mr. Mishra brought the vehicle from Sahyadri motors Baner (Pune), He also did a 2-hour PDI along with a 3rd party PDI expert.

I then asked them about the wishbone nut recall issue and the dealer confirmed that his car was not part of the recall. To confirm this, I then went to the service center where he used to give his vehicle for service, and they also confirmed that his vehicle was not part of the recall.

They were adamant that he might be driving at high speed and may have lost control, this was all before M&M released an official statement.

My question to fellow scorpio-n owners.

- Do you see any abnormality in your vehicles?
- Owners whose vehicles were part of recall; did you notice any difference before and after recall?

The reason I ask this is because very few owners have provided their perspective on the crash. I am also sure none of the owners are driving at 80kmph on highways, how is your vehicle behaving?

the failure rate is around 0.2% of the total scorpio-n sold in India, does this make a bad product design from ground up or its a case of owners being negligent towards upkeep of the vehicle?

I am in no way blaming them but, being a noob, I would like to understand more on how a 0.2% failure rate makes the product bad?

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by Sanjay_Sangar27

I am in no way blaming them but, being a noob, I would like to understand more on how a 0.2% failure rate makes the product bad?

It's not only about the risk of the failure happening (failure rate) but also about the impact of this happening. .2 % of failure for a catastrophic failure like a suspension breaking away, is very very high. That's actually 2 in 1000 units. I don't think the failure rate is that high - where did you get this number?

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by Sanjay_Sangar27

My 2 cents on the information I gathered through dealer and service center.

As a prospective Scorpio N owner, whose car will be delivered in the next week, I was obviously very concerned So I raised this on some Scorpio owner groups that have over 10k active members.

Not one member reported any suspension issues. There are a lot of threads pertaining to software glitches, a few instances of steering rod vibrations etc, which goes to show that people on those groups do post issues when they occur. Heck, one member posted a midnight SOS about the car stopping in the middle of nowhere and all screens going blank, and he had responses within minutes from other members with suggested fixes! So, quite active groups.

There is even one thread of a member having completed 100K in just 11 months, with no issues other than a couple of software glitches. And his car was from the first batch.

So, in terms of percentage, the reported "suspension failures" are 3 instances out of approx 50K Scorpio Ns on the road, which works out to .006%. Of course, those three owners would feel differently as they have suffered, but from a probability perspective, this is the number we are looking at.

While M&M has a lot of explaining to do, there are some anomalies in the Pune incident. I saw that video close to 20 times including freeze frames, and the fact is there is no scraping marks of any kind on the road. Also, this burning of the car seems really fishy. As a practicing lawyer, I can tell you that in most cases, once the cops get involved, in today's day of social media, it would be a very stupid cop, a foolhardy cop, or some poor soul who is working under immense "pressure", who will resort to, or allow, destruction of evidence at this scale.

Rest is all conjecture till we know the facts, which may probably be never!!

Cest la Vie.

[Sanjay_Sangar27]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

It's not only about the risk of the failure happening (failure rate) but also about the impact of this happening. .2 % of failure for a catastrophic failure like a suspension breaking away, is very very high. That's actually 2 in 1000 units. I don't think the failure rate is that high - where did you get this number?

I did a quick google check about the number of scorpio N sold and so far, we have seen handful of cases where the suspension broke, even If I take 70 vehicles out of 70k that only comes down to 0.2%. is it that bad?

[greenoval]

Originally Posted by Sanjay_Sangar27

I then asked them about the wishbone nut recall issue and the dealer confirmed that his car was not part of the recall.

Was there a recall specifically for wishbone nut? As far I remember the recalls were
1) to replace a rubber bellow inside the bell housing
2) for drive shaft bolts

[TopLiveCentre]

If any BHPian can get one boking of Scorpio cancelled please post it here. The least we can do to show we stand with this hapless victim. Anand Mahindra, put your money where your mouth is.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by Sanjay_Sangar27

I did a quick google check about the number of scorpio N sold and so far, we have seen handful of cases where the suspension broke, even If I take 70 vehicles out of 70k that only comes down to 0.2%. is it that bad?

So if 70 out of 70k had a problem related to a non-life threatening incident - say music suddenly stops, or something like that, it's still acceptable. But for a life threatening incident that could be caused by a suspension issue, it's definitely too high.

Just look at Ola's suspension breakage issue. We probably heard of just about 10 incidents from a sales of over 2 lakh scooters but the impact of this incident was a life threatening one. That changes everything.

Coming back to ScorpioN, we have never heard of any car's suspension breaking like this normally. So, it's hard to accept this as normal. I would not settle for anything except the company taking responsibility to understand the problem and fix it. And to be fair to Mahindra, they may already be doing it. We probably just don't know it.

[Hayek]

Do feel extremely sorry for the accident victim here - he was driving on an Expressway within the speed limit (even as per Mahindra’s statement) and ended being impaled by a crash barrier which is meant to protect road passengers.

But I do think that we are being extremely unfair to Mahindra by rushing to blame them and to assume that they are guilty of poor design or manufacturing, and or worse, of destroying evidence by setting the car on fire. There is literally NO evidence to say that this is what happened here.

The owner says he felt the car swerve to the right and end in the crash barrier. There are several possible reasons why that could happen. I just drove about 2000 km in MH and GJ on a mix of National and State Highways. There were several places where the surface was deceptively poor - and I ran into sudden potholes on a smooth road or the surface tended to drag the car one way or the other. Could there have been a poor banking that dragged his car to the right? We don’t know. The other huge danger in a road like the Samruddhi Mahamarg is micro sleep. Long straights can lull you into sleep for a fraction of a second, and that may be enough to let the car drift slightly. At 120 kmph, we cover 2 km every minute or 33 metres every second. The slightest shift of the steering from the straight and narrow could lead to your covering the few metres that separate you from the barrier in a fraction of a second. It could also have been a slight problem in wheel alignment - there are speeds at which a misaligned wheel vibrates or drifts more than at others. The probability that a suspension rod breaks and takes the car into a barrier in the absence of an immediate stress caused by a pothole or a bump is far lower than any of the above. And all of the above would align with the victim’s observation of the car drifting right and ending in the barrier before he knew it.

The sad thing is that on a modern and new expressway, the barrier was so poorly designed - with a termination that impaled the car and the victim instead of crumpling when the vehicle hit it and absorbing energy. After having read this thread, I observed some barriers on the way and saw several places where they suddenly ended with sharp edges that can impale someone. Ultimately it is this poor highway engineering that is responsible for the loss to the victim and the contractor who built that portion of the expressway (or that barrier) should be taking responsibility.

Please note that I don’t think any of us should blame the victim - most of us including me would be far more hysterical if something one-tenth as bad happened to us. But blaming M&M without any evidence is not right either - this is an unfortunate accident which turned into a disaster because of poor infrastructure design. The only good news is that it didn’t kill the victim or his family members - that is the only solace one can draw from this story.

[SidTheChamp]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

When the 'statement' is trying to bamboozle the reader with some numbers showing K.E is proportional to v^2 , and uses words like "driving cycle" instead of clearly mentioning the speed at the time of impact ; yet doesn't mention the word 'fire' in it, even though the vehicle burnt some 7 hours after the incident ; but is careful to mention the word 'investigation' but depends on that Youtuber's video footage to claim that there are no scratch marks on the road -- it clearly shows a PR team that is hard at work. Why are they not attaching a picture of the 'intact' balljoint which has been established from their 'investigation' ? that would've cleared all doubts once and for all.
To me, this statement is nothing but M&M mocking the intellect and common sense of whoever is reading this.

Exactly the thoughts came to my mind. M&M is doing fishy things here from the start. First the police putting pressure on owner to put some statement, then the most serious car burning to destroy real evidence. Someone at higher ups has pulled the strings and did a fix job.

Then M&M ignored for him for a month and only after YouTube was uploaded and gained traction that M&M has given a statement which raises more questions.

Primary concern of M&M is of reputation. Owner can sue M&M and Highways but they will just drag for years. But reputation once gone is very difficult to get back.

[MT_Hyderabad]

The road on which the driver was driving has a speed limit of 120 km/hr. Another dent in Mahindra's vague speed statement in the bulletin.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

If 70 out of 70,000 experienced a non-life-threatening issue—like sudden music interruptions or similar nuisances—it might still be considered acceptable. However, for a life-threatening problem caused by a suspension issue, that's undeniably too high.

Absolutely. I've been a Mahindra & Mahindra owner since 2013 and I currently own a 700 AWD. To be honest, I've never faced any significant issues with my Mahindra vehicles. Nevertheless, a 0.2% rate is unacceptable; it means that 2 cars out of every thousand could potentially lead to serious trouble (or even create headlines) at any time.

Consider this: in November 2023, 12,815 Scorpio Ns were sold. Approximately 26 of them might have significant issues.

Moreover, when facts are presented "in terms of percentages," it often requires extra consideration for the average person. For instance, MRF's share price declined by 0.24% today, which translates to a loss of Rs. 314.25. Conversely, Yes Bank's price surged by 4.66%, an increase of just one rupee in real value.