[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov.R

Venky, I remember one of Jeroen's earlier posts - asking for evidence of the suspension and wheel sheering off. It looks like we don't have it.

Its far too dangerous to guess when it'll be better off to not do so. And I wouldn't risk wanting to believe the driver fell asleep, or the company screwed up.

Let's look at the 'forensic evidence' before passing judgement.

I am all for waiting for forensic evidence.
In the meantime, i want to know how many creative ideas do we have, in how a customer can "tamper"/"unintentionally destroy" the factory fitted suspension. Because it has to be one or the other, right ? Manufacturer issue or customer issue. Is there a 3rd way ?

[himanshugoswami]

Have tweeted this to Anand Mahindra. Would request others to do so as well, or retweet my tweet to make sure it reaches his attention

https://twitter.com/goswami_h/status...A7qVNjZli4ONJg

[MT_Hyderabad]

If full and direct evidence was available, there was no need for any discussion. I prefer to work with circumstantial evidence when direct evidence is not available.

What circumstantial evidence is available:

1. The car had the divider panel lodged inside the car. This can only happen when the car went to the divider and not when the divider flew into it.
Now, a car can drive into a divider due to driver fault (misjudgement, animal on the road, drowsy driving etc.) or mechanical failure (tyre burst, suspension problem etc.).
The driver claims that he is not at fault, he has witnesses also inside the vehicle.
The angle at which the panel entered the vehicle, it could have not gone straight into the vehicle, but got bent after hitting the wheel. It implies that the wheel was not present when the car hit the panel. Secondly, did the panel cut the suspension in such a way that the wheel got dislodged? I can't believe this.

2. The battery terminals were clearly disconnected. What else can cause fire in a car which is on a trailer? That too a diesel vehicle.

3. Why is there no FIR till now? Who is stopping police from at least filing an FIR, when the owner is requesting it.

4. Why is Mahindra not responding officially to this incident? They do it with full ferver when a youtuber spots leakage from the sunroof!

5. Why police is pressurising the owner to state that the accident was due to an animal?

6. There is a documented proof that Scorpio N wheel came off at parking speeds.

7. There is a claimed proof that this car had suspension noise, which was more than the other cars.

8. There were some suspension related recall in Mahindra XUV 700 and Scorpio N. Some batches had suspension noise and an owner even claimed that it is his 3rd visit for suspension noise.

https://youtu.be/RAsnlAr4-5g?si=IIV5IGIrFy2gh9r1

Until Mahindra releases an official statement, I am going to believe the driver.
If something happens to anyone amongst us, please believe that person, and not the person/enterprise who prefers to remain silent.
Fault finding in someone's statement is a very convinient way out, and I am not taking the convinient path today.

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov.R

Venky, I remember one of Jeroen's earlier posts - asking for evidence of the suspension and wheel sheering off. It looks like we don't have it.

That wheel is absent from the accident site. The question is - why?

[hrishi_dypim]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov.R

Venky, I remember one of Jeroen's earlier posts - asking for evidence of the suspension and wheel sheering off. It looks like we don't have it.

Its far too dangerous to guess when it'll be better off to not do so. And I wouldn't risk wanting to believe the driver fell asleep, or the company screwed up.

Let's look at the 'forensic evidence' before passing judgement.

I am sorry to differ here but we are not the court or judges who are supposed to give the judgement and so need evidence and especially "forensic evidence". Cars don't have Black Box like Aeroplane to track the sequence of logs. Not sure if there was a dash cam in car or not, which might have recorded the reaction or voice to get some clue. Even the poor chap is not lucky to get treatment like Cyrus Mistry or even automobile company is not Mercedes. fyi, The car's wheel was thrown very far from the spot and must be in custody of police.
Why we are ignoring these points:

1. Car was burnt intentionally, why, by whom ?
2. Police tried to force the victim to accept that he was under influence of alcohol only then he will get punchnama copy.
3. Why police did not allow insurance surveyer to survey the vehicle for claim initially,later they allowed. Was this a time buying tactics but for what?

If all three events would have not happened, i could have been in position to accepte it like any other accident but then these 3 points clearly pointing towards some fishy stuff and hence believing on victim's word in the video.

Mahindra has time to throw all his manpower to go and record the sunroof water leaking issue and solve one famous you tubers issue. But the guy who lost his limb, requested through all the possible ways for help from mahindra, and not a single person helping even the service advisor who had refused about complained issue, looks he has no face to talk now.

We are expecting mahindra to show some responsibility. Their ignorance impacting thousands of existing/TO-BE customers, not only a single guy,they should understand this.

And yes I can say Mahindra Dealers/SC people don’t call/email/msg if there is any recall. You come to know only when you hear from other mahindra car's owner or if you go for servicing then it will be in TO-DO list.
They have tendency to ignore because they just want to do oil change. If you got any mechanical issue then god save you. It will not be resolved until you chase them and sit on them for a month.

[SidTheChamp]

The bane of the hottest selling car season. Every manufacturer is in the rat race to produce a car with loads of features, attract the customers and sell as much possible in a hugely competitive market.

Somewhere in this chaos, the care gets lost. ideally Mahindra should immediately identify the problem and recall all cars when the first issue happened. Rather they are hiding the problem to save PR image.

The vehicle burnout is most suspicious. That was done to destroy evidence , obviously.

Shocking beyond belief.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

. Think of ways an 'idiot' customer can destroy his suspension.

I can think of several ways in how a suspension can get destroyed. Whether you want to call the customer/driver an Idiot is entirely up to you.

Wheels and suspensions have come off on many different cars. Usually these cars were driving at high speed and impacted something. A pot hole, speed bump, curb you name it. Or hitting a piece debris. I am not sure what causes more damage. Probably hitting a relatively small piece of metal at high speed can play absolutely havoc. It will cut through anything. Remember Concorde?

If you find yourself hitting anything at high speed, chances are, when hit, the suspension caves in.

The suspension could have been damaged earlier by hitting a curb or something earlier and it ultimately fails at high speed.

Here is one article I googled for you earlier

https://suspensionlist.com/causes-of-suspension-damage/

Maybe not relevant in this particular case, but if a car had undergone suspension or allignement, if not done properly, that can cause problems.

Although it might not be a very popular thing to say. I think we can not rule out the car being driven at very high speed and somehow lost control, or swerved. If you look at the images you can see a very large piece a barrier that has impaled itself right through the car! If there was a suspension it would have smashed it to bits.

I am not party to giving anybody the benefit of doubt. It simply distracts from the facts as can and or need to be established.

The very fact that this has all the appearances of a high speed crash, should also mean we should not rule out anything.

Jeroen

[master uio]

While there is no reason to doubt the Scorpio-N owner here and all my sympathies are with him and his family, I am curious to know why the suspension failure did not occur on the Mahindra proving grounds near Chennai on the tough tracks, banked test tracks, trails in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where multiple vehicle experts test drove the Scorpio-N. I already canceled my booking for the Z8L 4x4 Manual today with a feeling of sadness and loss of pride that I had in me when I thought, still think? that we made a World Class SUV fully capable of rubbing shoulders with the best. Is there sabotage by vested interests - if so is it so easy to almost do it over 4 times (The suspension issue has occured with multiple Scorpio-N's on different occassions in separate locations in India.

[Sidban85]

If a similar accident happens (without injury to occupants hopefully) to one of cars sold in Australia, then maybe, perhaps, hopefully, we will get the real picture.

Not that it will impact anything in Indian market though.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I can think of several ways in how a suspension can get destroyed.

If you find yourself hitting anything at high speed, chances are, when hit, the suspension caves in.

The suspension could have been damaged earlier by hitting a curb or something earlier and it ultimately fails at high speed.

He claimed that he was driving moderately considering fuel efficiency.

Regarding your last statement, another wording could be:

The suspension could have been defective and it ultimately fails at high speed.

This person has got the suspension checked sometime before the trip and it was all OK as per the SVC (including the noise).

[Tiago_Boy]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

But all this brings me to another question. Why was Tata Motors brought into this discussion? Are there any documented cases of Tata cars in similar life threatening situations?

Here is a similar incident where the tyre of Nexon detached.

URL - https://indianexpress.com/article/tr...aches-9083441/

[Darkcloud]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

That is the precise reason it is hearsay and or circumstantial. We only have this gentlemans word for it. No independent witnesses. It doesn't mean he is lying. It is just how he remembers it. The fact remains that people who experience big accidents and also personal trauma make for very poor witnesses. And that is before a person’s normal bias kicks in.

Victims make for poor witnesses. That is unfortunate, but it's just how it works with humans.

I wouldn't want to delve into semantics here but as he was involved in the accident and was a victim means it isn't hearsay or circumstantial evidence.
(Hearsay is when the person making the statement wasn't present himself or has heard it from others. Circumstantial evidence or direct evidence would be for the investigation to decide later.)
So either he's telling the truth or he's lying. And considering the incidents before and after the accident I'm inclined to side with the former. Then again, I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I am an engineer. When an accident happens I need to see a logical relevant explanation that make sense and is supported by direct evidence and not anecdotal evidence.Jeroen

Well, I'm a doctor, and I believe that victims of an accident too can give credible evidence and do not necessarily make for poor witnesses. You'd be surprised at the details many of them can remember and also how most of them do accept their mistake if they've made one. (This is pertaining to road accidents).

So before an investigation gets to the truth, I would first trust the victim's statement rather than support a faceless corporation which will at most times quickly blame the victim and flatly deny any problem with their product. Then later when the number of victims increase, it will be time for a printed bland acceptance and/or a recall and all will be forgotten.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by master uio

While there is no reason to doubt the Scorpio-N owner here and all my sympathies are with him and his family, I am curious to know why the suspension failure did not occur on the Mahindra proving grounds near Chennai on the tough tracks, banked test tracks, trails in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where multiple vehicle experts test drove the Scorpio-N.

As I mentioned in my previous posts,
(i) design
(ii) vendor sourced part quality of a particular 'batch' of a component related to suspension
(iii) mistake in assembly line missed by QA/QC
(iv) unprofessional re-assembly at service center, where suspension components needed to be removed and refixed

It could be any of the above, ("subjectively speaking" that is, emotionally, from a brain preparing this list purely out of sympathy) the order (i) to (iv) ranking from least likely to most likely. Other than (i), any of (ii)(iii)(iv) could be the answer to your Q.

[Comrade]

I hope GoI realizes that we need an investigative agency similar to NHTSA in the US. Many questions arise here, which can be answered only after proper investigation by a competent agency. Maybe ARAI can take up such role if the MORTH has the intention of improving the safety of our roads.

1. Was Car (manufacturer) at fault? Was there really some component failure? Does it warrant a recall from the Manufacturer?

2. Was Driver at fault? Was he distracted at the moment? How fast were they travelling?

3. Are there any deficiencies in the Highway design that could have caused this crash?

4. Was the Crash Barrier (Guard Rail) improperly designed or installed at the point of impact? What if an "apparently" safe Japanese or German car hits the same crash barrier at the same point at the same speed regardless of the cause of impact.

5. Post-crash analysis of the all parties involved. Why did the car burn down later in the evening? Was there any malicious intent?

6. What compensation can be awarded for the disability?

If there is a manufacturing defect, a fine has to be applied on the manufacturer and a recall has to be opened but that still does not absolve the government or the road contractor from poor design/installation of the guard rail. Guard Rails are known to be quite dangerous in a crash if they are not properly designed or installed! A simple google image search will give crashes from across the world where people have died due to guard rails piercing the cars! The guard rail is supposed to absorb/withstand the momentum and stop the car. Instead it just pierced this car here.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Have tweeted this to Anand Mahindra. Would request others to do so as well, or retweet my tweet to make sure it reaches his attention

https://twitter.com/goswami_h/status...A7qVNjZli4ONJg

Rest assured this gent will not pay two hoots to this tweet. He has all the time in the world for his philanthropic and witty tweets; but anything serious like this one which malign their brand image; be sure they'll shrug it under the carpet.

We have seen such catastrophic failures from this manufacture in the past in case of the XUV500 airbags not being deployed. Even worse is that , there are still no lessons learnt as we continue to have such cases reported on the forum. Latest being rather high-speed crash (approx. 80 kmph) Scorpio-N rear ended and Salvia and the chassis go bent ; but the airbags didn't open.

In the hindsight, I feel this whole 5-star safety thing with the GNCAP and now the BNCAP is all a marketing bull***. I mean see the amount of hype and publicity it generates. TATA & M&M are at the helm of it; but is it really all that true?
And ofcourse, we all know how a '5-star' rating is awarded to the car by the famed GNCAP.

Apologies if this has been OT.

[buzzy_boy]

XUV 700 owner here. I'm leaning towards believing the owner of the Scorpio N. In my own experience (My Mahindra XUV700 AX-5 D | Ownership Review), the service centres are least bothered about the diagnosis of issues. IMHO this accident could've been prevented had the service center acted upon the owner's complaints.