[clevermax]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Never knew that limiting speed is a million dollar idea involving enormous complexity on a 24x7 basis! But making sure millions of people wear seat belts, helmets properly is child's play right?

Making sure that everyone wears seat belts isn't that difficult. In KL, every car driver follows it. This enforcement should extend to passengers as well.

Originally Posted by CarNerd

It's a statement, not a research report.

Whatever it is, I go by that viewpoint. Capping the speed of private cars is a terrible idea.

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Not everyone can drive safely beyond 120 kmph.

Forget about 120kmph. Many can't even drive safely at 63kmph. Why don't y'all root for speed capping at 63kmph instead of 120kmph?

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Such an easy thing to do!

You didn't get the CDSL joke, did you?

Originally Posted by CarNerd

It's not a good thing to break the law in the name of enthusiasm, is it?

Can you confidently say that you haven't broken any driving rules? If you can, I am happy to know that there's at least one!

[Turbohead]

According to the 2019 report put up here https://morth.nic.in/road-accident-in-india
Kerala had the 4th highest number of accidents in the country but ranked 16th highest number of fatalities in the country. Obviously, lower the speed, lesser the intensity and thus casualties.

And here is my argument on why limiting a vehicle's speed is futile: speeding is not the real problem. If speed was the real problem, Kerala would've ranked 16 in the total number of accidents. It all boils down to driver awareness and training and not outright speed although speed amplifies everything in case of a mistake. It's next to impossible to go over 120 kmph considering that every such stretch has speed cameras ready to suck your wallet dry.

I find this report quite surprising because Kerala has rather strict driver's license test but then was reminded that they only focus on rules like not stopping in a bridge, driving in an H etc but nothing related to safe driving techniques like overtaking which is an extremely critical piece of skill required in Kerala. Let's not forget the infrastructure which is inadequate and overloaded. All the major 4 lane highways have signals in all the junctions.

I'm simply surprised at how demonised speed is in T-BHP. Personally, I rarely look at the speedometer and drive as per the conditions on the road which may get well be below or above the speed limit.

[roby.thomas]

I believe problem in India is just cultural. We do not have the habit of respecting others. Respecting rules, respecting convenience of others, respecting property of others, respecting lives of others while we enjoy ours. Since the talk was about enforcing it in ECU, I was thinking a little bit more and believe it is technically feasible. Issue is burning in irrelevant hard-coded speed limits like 120 Km/Hr, we should have dynamic speed enforcement.

Have the manufacturers incorporate a radio receiver, which can receive paging from roadside installed transmitters. I think this can actually be done very easily provided someone thinks through this. They can simply send in the speed limit, and the car receiver sets the speed limits. This way, you don't have to put up meaningless speed limit boards, and if the authorities really care they can simply page the speeds according to the traffic conditions.

ie; while approaching a junction about 500 meters ahead the paging posts can be installed and can send in broadcast to a reduced speed limit and the vehicle automatically adjusts to it. Of course this paging comes with a time limit, beyond which its expired from ECU cache and you drive peacefully, so long as the next paging post isn't in vicinity. At traffic prone areas and cities, along with putting surveillance cameras (which govt is eager to do), install this paging transmitter too. I think this is a win-win situation for all. Of course intention of authorities has to be to reduce accidents, and not issue challan finding someone speeding, and fill the coffers.

By the way, does something like this already exist ?

[tilt]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

*SNIP*


Could you please summarise the findings of that study?

Basically that changing speed limits (both increasing and decreasing) did not demonstrate any significant change in the speeds people actually drove at; and that there was no significant changes in crashes either. However, re. the crash statistics, the study also says that they did not have sufficient data to form any definitive conclusions.

So what exactly were you saying earlier?

Not quite. I have been saying all the while that blindly attributing speed to the cause of crashes is something that has been (and is being done) in an unscientific manner.

Cheers

[theabstractmind]

I am uploading a report from the US National Highway authority. Refer to Table 64 which provides the figures for factors involved in fatal crashes. Speeding beyond the required limit is on the top of the list for known factors. Yeah - it involves crashes at all speeds - but notably, beyond allowed speed limits. Crashes at 55mph and above 60mph take the top spots, so do passenger cars and light trucks. And this, in a country where enforcement and driver education is supposedly excellent. India doesn't even come close. So the data published by our own NHAI is quite believable considering how entitled and invincible as @Jeroen put it - we Indians feel when driving on the road.

So, if we kind of take the essence of the thread to not just 120 kmph and involve dynamic speed control as a few members have proposed, suddenly everything starts making sense. Doesn't it? And data does show that Speed kills. Yes, there are other problems, that doesn't mean we don't solve what we can.

I can again be preachy but will stop here.

[jalex77]

I agree with the OP, we need ECU based speed restrictions cutting it off at 120 Kmph.
Forget controlling the car at over 120Kmph or even 100kmph, vast majority of people can't even park straight or know when to replace the tyres on their cars.

Then arguments against the OP like need for speeding over 120kmph for overtaking a bus doing 115Kmph, Mafia chasing scenario which needs higher top speeds,
Medical emergencies and so on don't actually seem as valid enough reasons.

I mean I too would have used the same kind of arguments if I was back in my early 20s or so, but a couple of decades passed me by from there and I stand corrected on many of my views from my younger days, some thanks to being a part of this forum, others life, work and the world taught.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by roby.thomas

I believe problem in India is just cultural. We do not have the habit of respecting others. Respecting rules, respecting convenience of others, respecting property of others, respecting lives of others while we enjoy ours. ?

This is absolutely true. When in India we feel ‘entitled’ and ‘invincible’ and ‘more equal than everyone else’. Always. This is a basic behavioural issue.
Laws and rules are for others. We ll always find ways to circumvent them.
Example: How to do Software Tweak Jugaad and remove the 80kmph and 120kmph speed warnings from our fancy shiny new cars.
None of us transcend this behaviour, truth be told. So best not to preach.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

I am uploading a report from the US National Highway authority. Refer to Table 64 which provides the figures for factors involved in fatal crashes.

*Snip*

So, if we kind of take the essence of the thread to not just 120 kmph and involve dynamic speed control as a few members have proposed, suddenly everything starts making sense. Doesn't it? And data does show that Speed kills. Yes, there are other problems, that doesn't mean we don't solve what we can.

I can again be preachy but will stop here.

Ah, United States my favorite country from where a fairly recent but very powerful phenomenon has originated -Virtue Signaling.

Anyhow I wish you read through the history or Express highways or Freeways or in our country we call them Expressways - Their primary purpose is not safety but it is very well considered after speed.

Quote from Britannica (perhaps not from US but west nevertheless)

"Their advantages include high speed, greater safety, comfort and convenience for drivers and passengers, and lower vehicle operating costs."

120 kmph is not high speed if the highway itself can handle 150 or 180 - engineers have worked on it, they know better.

20 Kmph speed limit is where we can save most lives but its also ridiculously slow and does not guarantee safety when combined with a loaded truck.

[theabstractmind]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Anyhow I wish you read through the history or Express highways or Freeways or in our country we call them Expressways - Their primary purpose is not safety but it is very well considered after speed.

Quote from Britannica (perhaps not from US but west nevertheless)

"Their advantages include high speed, greater safety, comfort and convenience for drivers and passengers, and lower vehicle operating costs."

Oh! I didn't know that expressways were built for providing a faster and comfortable means of transporting. I always thought it is for the Government to spend and make money

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

Oh! I didn't know that expressways were built for providing a faster and comfortable means of transporting. I always thought it is for the Government to spend and make money

And since you mentioned USA earlier, can you imagine USA if it was not for Model T Ford and the Freeway system? It would not be the same country that we see now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHZukqaRdoA

Yet for all its greatness, USA now is a mouthpiece for Wokeism, a clueless country from where we have really nothing to learn.

A rapid transit highway system will take this country forward, I am a beneficiary of improved highway system and I will always support it for how much time it saves - you CAN cover 100 Kms in 1 hour on our roads now without having to feel like you are doing dangerous driving.

Speed limits have to go up, 120 is not fast enough.

[zaks]

Everybody wants to be able to drive fast, because it makes people feel good, that it can endanger life and property if done without caution is something people don't pay much attention to.
We cannot push the civic problems to the manufacturer because we have failed to control that. It is like asking Chemicals manufacturing to be stopped because people can make bomb with it. This is a regulation and law and order issue and has to be solved in the same framework.

[CarNerd]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Making sure that everyone wears seat belts isn't that difficult. In KL, every car driver follows it. This enforcement should extend to passengers as well.

Really? Unbelievable!

Whatever it is, I go by that viewpoint. Capping the speed of private cars is a terrible idea.

Anything that saves lives in India is a welcome idea.

Forget about 120kmph. Many can't even drive safely at 63kmph. Why don't y'all root for speed capping at 63kmph instead of 120kmph?

You don't seem happy at 120, will you be happy at 63?

Attachment 2390276

What is this graph? Where did you get this from?

You didn't get the CDSL joke, did you?

No. What's CDSL?

Can you confidently say that you haven't broken any driving rules? If you can, I am happy to know that there's at least one!

I have broken a few but I don't have a plan to break a particular rule in the future.

Originally Posted by tilt

Basically that changing speed limits (both increasing and decreasing) did not demonstrate any significant change in the speeds people actually drove at; and that there was no significant changes in crashes either. However, re. the crash statistics, the study also says that they did not have sufficient data to form any definitive conclusions.

Changing speed limits on signs is different from restricting speed by ECU. The definitive thing about speed is at higher speeds, the chances of survival are less.

Not quite. I have been saying all the while that blindly attributing speed to the cause of crashes is something that has been (and is being done) in an unscientific manner.

Nobody is saying that speed is the only thing that causes crashes. It's one of the many measures we have to take. Have a look at this:

[ajilphilip]

This is a very simplistic approach to solving problems, by attributing a single cause to what is a complex issue.
When I'm travelling at 90-100 on a highway the most dangerous thing on the road is whatever's traveling at under 40, or stationary.
If you limit speed to 120, but a truck ambles along at 30 trying to pull ahead of a tractor doing 30 then you are going to have to slam on your brakes.
Like they say, it wasn't the speed that killed him, it was the sudden stopping.

Don't expect or ask the government to nanny us and put us in a bubble wrapped safe world. We won't realise until we've lost all the freedoms that make life worth living.

[theabstractmind]

I sense a lot of irony among the members. On one hand they want some strict enforcement but only for the issues which don't affect them directly. One simple question - if the same members who are against the rule were to be a victim of a crash induced by another driver who lost control due to over speeding, would they still hold the same opinion or accept it as collateral damage?

It is not a matter of 120 kmph - let us assume dynamic speed limits enforced with buffer zones having no limit - and then answer the above question.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

I sense a lot of irony among the members. On one hand they want some strict enforcement but only for the issues which don't affect them directly. One simple question - if the same members who are against the rule were to be a victim of a crash induced by another driver who lost control due to over speeding, would they still hold the same opinion or accept it as collateral damage?

It is not a matter of 120 kmph - let us assume dynamic speed limits enforced with buffer zones having no limit

As I have probably mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a different definition of over-speeding from many other folks.

I define over-speeding as driving beyond current conditions of the environment and the vehicle, while most others define it purely as driving higher than posted limits.

I have no objection to limits being posted; and shall happily follow them; as long as said limits have not been determined by pulling "lucky numbers" out of a hat.

I do; however; draw the line at ECU-based top-speed limitation because like some others have said, there are times (albeit rare) that one needs to exceed posted limits in the interests of public safety. I do concede that such instances are usually born out of my driving beyond current conditions though and as such could be avoided.

I am all for ECU-based speed notifications or warnings like what Google Maps displays though.

let us assume dynamic speed limits enforced with buffer zones having no limit

I am afraid I do not catch your drift. Would you maybe elaborate? Or have I addressed this in my response above?

Thanks and cheers