[Yash390]

DISCLAIMER : Long post, some people may find this boring

As a navigating officer on cargo ships, I consider safety to be paramount in all aspects of life. Whether I'm working onboard, at home, while driving/riding, while changing a flat tyre, while operating power tools etc.

After seeing so many accidents on this thread caused due to inappropriate speeds, I started wondering why drivers don't keep the concept of safe speed in their mind. In marine navigation, we have a convention called COLREGS (Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea), which can quite simply be understood as 'Rules of the Road'. It is practically a navigating officer's bible. It lays down guidelines for things like -

1. Whose responsibility is it to get out of the way ?
2. Who would be culpable if a collision, or even a near miss, occurred ?
3. Who should do what at what point to prevent a collision from occurring ?

All seagoing vessels are required to comply with these regulations. Due to these rules, traffic out at sea is somewhat regulated. All navigating officers are required to comply with these rules as any neglect in compliance can result in strict legal action, fines accounting to millions of dollars, forfeiture of licenses etc. As expected, there are some complacent officers who don't follow these rules (just like careless drivers on the road). There are guidelines for different types of vessels, different types of waterways and different states of visibility. Although these rules are made for seagoing vessels, one particular rule comes to my mind which can be applied while driving also, known as 'Safe speed'.

Time and again it has been discussed on this forum what a safe speed while driving should be. Yes, it depends on various factors. Just because an expressway has a speed limit of 120kmph does not mean that one can and should drive at 120kmph. A driver must take full responsibility for his vehicle, his actions, analyse the situation and then decide what his safe speed should be. Safe speed is not the same as legal speed. I incorporate this rule in my everyday driving/riding and it is really helpful.

I just want to share this with you.
Here is an excerpt from Rule #6 of COLREGS : Safe speed -



Do you see how similar it is to the driving conditions we face on the roads, and how we can incorporate it in our driving ? Except the last point, all have a practical application on the roads too.

PS - This rule applies in all states of visibility and I have not gone in depth due to the vastness of the topic. Sorry for the long post. I thought of this thread to be the most suitable to share something like this. Hope you like it. As always, drive safe.

[gomzi]

Originally Posted by Yash390

[center]

After seeing so many accidents on this thread caused due to inappropriate speeds, I started wondering why drivers don't keep the concept of safe speed in their mind.

At least where i'm located and people i've met/observed, a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that driving fast = good driving i.e. driving skill is equated to driving fast which is

Even inside a residential society complex, speed breakers and those plastic rumble strips don't discourage many cars from going fast in the parking lot (relatively even 20 kmph is fast in a parking lot) where they endanger their neighbours.

[Aditya]

Why don't cars stick to a safe speed (lower than the legal speed) like in marine navigation? - Posts moved to a new thread.

[adi.mariner]

To get a Deck Officer/Engineer's Certificate of Competency, you need to have certain minimum educational qualifications. Also stringent exams are conducted by the Marine Mercantile Departments before the Certificates are awarded. However getting a Driving License is very easy in India and you do not need to cross so many hurdles. So most of the drivers are not aware of the rules of the road, leave alone think about following them. follow them.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by Yash390

All seagoing vessels are required to comply with these regulations. Due to these rules, traffic out at sea is somewhat regulated. All navigating officers are required to comply with these rules as any neglect in compliance can result in strict legal action, fines accounting to millions of dollars, forfeiture of licenses etc.

Thank you for this interesting analogy. Please throw light on who typically enforces punitive action (fines, license revocation,etc) in the case of marine navigation. I am curious especially about incidents occurring in international waters which are outside the jurisdiction of a country. Also how is the enforcement rigour typically? Are most violators taken to task?

[bivision]

If everybody abides by the rules, then we wouldn't need the speed breakers and the road barriers. Problem is in enforcing the rules.

[fhdowntheline]

The only solution to go along the suggested lines is to de-power private vehicles to sub 40bhp levels. They will save more fuel too in this process. The reality is that super highways are being built to supposedly enable people drive at break-neck speeds, with claims of reaching 500+km in less than 6 hours etc.

[Rohan265]

After conducting interviews of many drivers involved in road crashes, I have a couple of ideas behind the 'why':

1. Lower risk perception. Many drivers I interviewed did not believe that their actions could have catastrophic results. They never even thought of the possibility that they could be involved in a crash and may even lose their lives. The risk of dying in a road crash is not internalised. Hence we see high-risk-taking behaviour. "This was my first accident and I never thought this could happen to me" was a common statement in many interviews. The lower risk perception is contrary to marine or air crashes where pilots, captains, and even passengers are more careful just because they have internalised that having a crash in such vehicles may result in death.
2. Lack of a systemic approach towards safety. I believe the acceptance of this risk is also the reason why air or marine travel is statistically safer than road travel. The whole safety system is designed to accommodate the high risk, unlike road travel where the system leaves safety up to individuals. More so in a country like India.
3. Low/No fear of consequences. This reason is often brought up in such discussions as it is true in most cases. Many drivers told me that they would not take similar actions if there was a police officer or some other check in that particular crash location. The lack of fear is linked to both the above points. As the risk is not internalized, drivers need an external source/influence to keep them safe. This is also a system failure as, unlike marine traffic, there are no severe consequences for breaking traffic rules or causing a crash.

Many may not agree, but we are too fixated on fixing reason 3 mentioned above. Increasing fines and penalties is not a bad solution. But, that should be the last resort while tackling this issue. I may be wrong but I don't think that most ship captains and air pilots are more cautious because of high fines and jail time. Either they internally have a lower risk-taking attitude or the system has many controls to prevent failures. The same needs to be applied to road safety through well-designed systems and risk-awareness programs. A driver that easily perceives the risks behind driving will naturally absorb all defensive or safe driving techniques. Self-preservation is one of the basic human needs.
However, I do agree that it is easier said than done.

[Jeroen]

There is an interesting difference between the international col regs and most if not all road and rule regulations.

The col reg have right of way regulation. But even when you have the right of way, the master of arhat vessel will have a responsibility to ensure the safe passage at all time, by using all resources at his/her disposal.

What it means that if ships collide, obviously it needs to decided who had the right away. Once that has been established the authorities will also verify that the master the right of way took appropriate action to try and prevent and or minimise the imminent collision. This applies to any and all situations, not just right of way.

This is fundamentally very different from what tends to with road rules and regulations. If you have the right of way and we’re not breaking the speedlimit the other guy tends to get the blame. You crash into somebody from the rear, you are to blame.

So mariners compared to drivers start from a very different perspective, where they will be judged on their adequate ensuring safety of passage. Irrespective whether there are idiots out their on the sea. Irrespective of whether they have the right of way. There are some very interesting court cases around the world in which this has been established as a matter of jurisprudence. My dad was a lawyer specilialising in international transport and maritime law. When I was a naval college he told me quite a few of court room stories.

Unfortunately, speed limits get broken at sea as well. About two weeks ago we had a very sad accident here in the Netherlands. A high speed ferry and high speed water taxi collided. Four people were killed. Two persons, a dad and his son went overboard and are still missing and presumed drowned.

Both vessels were operating in a narrow channel with speed restriction. Both were running well above the speed limit. They were in radio contact with each other and agreed on how they would pass eachother. Standard procedure. Somehow they collided and four people lost their life.

Coming back to topic, I believe it is partly a lack of any formal training, poor examination and virtually no law enforcement.

I don’t want to offend anybody, but my experience in India has always been that nobody takes any rules particularly seriously. Those who do are ridiculed, or maybe foreigners?.

No mistake, this cavelier and improvisation type of approach has advantages too. But on the road it is going to get a lot of people killed and it does.

So I think it is all down to attitude. If you are not too concerned about your own life, why would you be concerned about somebody else?

Jeroen

[asmr]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I don’t want to offend anybody, but my experience in India has always been that nobody takes any rules particularly seriously. Those who do are ridiculed, or maybe foreigners?.

Those who do follow the rules are not just ridiculed. They are abused, yelled at, put on edge by constant honking from behind, aggressive close encounters by vehicles on the move and/or by the drivers after blocking the road & sometimes end up in the hospital or, worse, dead.

Originally Posted by Rohan265

Lower risk perception, Lack of a systemic approach towards safety, Low/No fear of consequences.

Bingo on all 3. People don't have the temperament to respect speed & momentum. They watch too many movies and serials where their false sense of security is reinforced. The lack of fear of consequences is a typical mindset problem - rules are there but don't need to follow unless there is immediate threat of fine, arrest etc. Everyone from those who don't stop at red signals during the night to those who make U-turns in prohibited areas in to oncoming traffic contributes to this.

Many of those who violate rules on our roads are well educated and well to do. Setting up automated systems that capture violations and levy hefty fines, punishments with teeth all will fail if we don't have large scale, long term campaigns to inculcate "awareness" right from schools, re-training - to drive defensively first and re-training to be less selfish or entitled on the road (and that is much more difficult) and reduce corruption in the system.

Now to answer the main question - Why don't cars stick to a safe speed (lower than the legal speed)? Because the drivers don't care enough about safety, not only for themselves and their passengers but also for others who share "their" road with them.

[Kosfactor]

My daily ride to school was in an open boat fitted with an outboard engine, Suzuki , Yamaha etc - I don't remember it following any rules as such.

Then there were fishing boats (beautiful wooden black boats) fitted with two outboard engines or more that used to blitz through the harbour, sometimes catching airtime , beautiful sight to watch as you move along the equally beautiful Old harbour bridge - those who are from Kochi will know what I am talking about.

I am sure most of the marine traffic in the world by numbers are comprised of these small boats with one operator at the rudder and won't have a clue about any rules as such.

Anyhow , I think the purpose and intend of an average fellow going to drop his kids to school and then off to work is different from a cargo vessel, a race against time in whatever automobile they have at hand.

[DicKy]

The speed limits set are already lower than the designed speed of the road taking into various other factors. So doing 70-80km/h in a road that has 80km/h is not an issue. Problems creators are those who go 50-60km/h in such roads in the fast lane like goody good guys. And I believe the rule states that even if you are at the limit in the fast lane, if a faster car comes you must make way. Not be a speed limit enforcer. Speed differential is the biggest problem in India. Not practical for India, but atleast access controlled highways should have a minimum speed limit.

Originally Posted by Rohan265

[*]Lower risk perception.

True. Most of the people who drive/ride fast and weave through traffic are those who really don't understand the consequences that may occur if the fist size patch of rubber gives up or something brushes them with margins of millimetres. Going fast is not bad, but doing so at the mercy of other road users is utter cowardice. Riles me up when people do some risky manoeuvre and show it as some sort of expert driving. Dude, you got to successfully complete the risky overtake just because the other road users slowed down or moved away or you bullied the others with the sheer size of your vehicle. Not something to boast of.

[fiat_tarun]

Similar to the rules at sea, we have the rules in place to ensure accidents are minimal but the unfortunate reality is that the rules are not followed in our country. In addition the infrastructure, speed limits and some rules are not scientifically implemented which makes it impossible to follow some of the rules even if you want to !

I personally do not agree with the idea of setting unrealistic speed limit restrictions on the vehicle itself (taking away the joy of driving), as an idiot can cause an 'accident' even at 60kmph and hence that is not the solution. We tend to focus on the lowest hanging fruit which may not be the right solution to the problem.

I think Europe, especially Germany is a good example of how it should work. There are vast stretches of road with no speed limit and still reports one of the lowest road fatality rates in the world.

[Small Bot]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Most of the people who drive/ride fast and weave through traffic are those who really don't understand the consequences that may occur if the fist size patch of rubber gives up or something brushes them with margins of millimetres. Going fast is not bad, but doing so at the mercy of other road users is utter cowardice.

Oh, how I agree to that. It annoys me to no end when the driver of the cab I'm in does this and then smirks as though he's accomplished something by saving ten seconds of driving time. All he's done is increase my heart rate for no real reason and reduce his own star rating in Ola/Uber.

Back to the topic, I used to work in a shipbuilding yard from 2013 to 2016, and I used to chat up some retired seamen (both commercial and defence folks) during breaks. This topic had come up and I had asked them why they felt that traveling by roads in India is way less safer than traveling by sea.

They had these points to offer: Lesser training and it being exponentially easier to obtain a license to operate motorcycles and automobiles as compared to other vehicles, lesser understanding of how automobiles actually are meant to work and to be driven, lesser awareness of consequences of reckless behaviour and lack of understanding of what to do in case of emergencies.

The training that a person has to undergo in order to get a driver's license from the RTO is not nearly sufficient enough, is what I understood from them. And this might not be limited just to India.

The topic of law enforcement was not even cited as a major reason.

[drift87]

Well, i feel this is related to the quality of checkpoints involved in issuing the motor vehicle driving license. Getting a license is a cake walk in our country, we cannot expect quality drivers - be it driving in a civil way or following the basic paradigm of driving. This is further complimented by lax penalties , non prosecution of habitual offenders and ineffective/tardy system all together.