[mygodbole]

Excellent thread.
My two bits:
Knowledge of lanes and using that knowledge are different things. Most people are aware of lane discipline. But the moment the ignition is turned on, the nut behind the wheel/handlebar is loosened.
I look at traffic in Mumbai and Guwahati, where most two-wheelers stick to the slow lanes. Then I look at Pune. And I rest my case. Actually, Pune road users follow the rules outside the city, lane discipline and all, just not in their own (and my) city.
Secondly, road users everywhere, whether in India or elsewhere, follow country-, city-, region-specific road norms. Norms, not laws or rules. Here I cite Mizoram and Goa. No high-beam, lane discipline are just two instances.
Having driven/ridden in Europe, Middle-East, India and South East Asia, I have experienced wild driving everywhere.
As I and many of my city-mates say again and again: If you can ride a bike or drive a car in Pune, you can ride or drive anywhere in the world.
My assessment is that most people are willing to follow the relevant rules if 'everyone else' follows them too. Even the most disciplined driver will have to remodel their skills to suit their environment. And ditto for an unruly driver.
One point that I have observed in New Delhi and Pune is that people already in a roundabout come to a stop in the roundabout. Road users still outside the roundabout get right of way. That leads to traffic snarls. I think Mumbai has eliminated most roundabouts. Not seen roundabouts in other places that I have visited. Just an observation.

[Sarinkrc]

this is why there's no lane discipline in India. Drivers need to be properly . When i got my license from India only thing i had to do was to pass reverse test & after changing gear to the second I got my license. When we go to outside countries for example in the Middle East all people from India are properly trained for lane discipline , changing lanes , shoulder check , blind spot check .

[anoopelias]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Corollary to Rule #4: It is imperative to perform a head check (aka a shoulder check) before changing lanes or turning. This eliminates the chance of getting hit by vehicles in your mirror blind spots.

If I remember correctly, not doing shoulder check during lane changing is a severe mistake in UK license road test. You can fail the entire test with one such mistake.

[narmad]

Brilliant thread.
I have seen friends giving excuses of not proper lanes on mumbai road, drive the same way on Mumbai Pune Expressway. Specially at the curves, where the lanes are completely disregarded .

I remember losing 5 points during my driving test in Massaland. Sudden change of lanes being the reason given.
I passed, but was advised to imagine my old grandmother sitting with an hot cup of coffee and to drive accordingly.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

There's just one reason I feel for the constant straying to adjacent lanes - most of them just DON'T KNOW the purpose and importance of the lane markers. This is the only thing that irks me no end while driving. And the one who knows it would absent mindedly straddle once a while. The accidents on highways can be curtailed to a great extent if every single motorist out there follows lane discipline.

Lane discipline cannot be absolutely followed in India for multiple reasons - bad road surfaces, improper lane markings, cow sitting in the middle of a road... the list is endless. However, if everybody does attempt to follow lane rules (as well as understand Right of Way rules), we certainly would have safer traffic movement.

I'm sharing it in all relevant groups.

Hope there is a 0.5% improvement in the quality of drivers across the country. Just that would make it worth my effort.

Originally Posted by goenkakushal

...in that process of looking behind for a second or two the vehicle used to move away from the center of the lane, as his concentration was not on the steering.
This can be more dangerous.

Originally Posted by raksrules

This is the exact mistake new drivers in US make. I am talking from perspective of Indian folks. Especially the ones who started driving in US for first time. Myself and wife first learned driving in US for the first time and while learning, and doing shoulder check to overtake or change lanes (before exit), our car would also start going in that direction as we mistakenly started steering in the said direction.
After few days, this got fixed and we were able to do shoulder check with car being in same lane.

Don't actually look. Just glance back from the corner of your eye, for less than a second. If in doubt, cast a second glance. You'll never drift off your lane.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Excellent thread. I'd add two minor but relevant points
1. Use indicators prior to shifting lanes. Even during day. Get into the habit of doing this even if there's no vehicle behind you on any of the lanes. One day when it'll matter, the habit will make it's worth felt.

Oh yes. Never stop communicating with other road users, even if you cannot spot them.

2. Do not blindly follow what the vehicle in front of you is doing (while changing lanes, overtaking, etc.) - get visibility and then take the decision. Doesn't matter what's in front of you, if it's a big car/truck/bus, you don't have the visibility of what's ahead of that vehicle. If it's a 2-wheeler/auto, you don't have the luxury of the easy of maneuverability of such leaner/smaller sized vehicles.

Which is why maintaining the CAS is so important.

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

Also lane changes on curves is useful since that exposes a wider view behind your vehicle before attempting the lane change (in appropriate direction).
Lastly being situationally aware is paramount during driving since there would always be idiots who don't think through these aspects of driving.

Depends on how sharp the curve is. Moving to the outer radius of the curve allows one to continue at greater speed despite sticking to the 5-second static CAS rule, because one can see further around the curve. But that should not mean one ought to break lane discipline.

Originally Posted by Secretariat

Wonderful thread. To follow as a Bible.

This is just a small part of the Bible of driving!

May I request your tutorial on two India specific topics since your practical tips are far more useful than theoretical lectures which sadly are impossible to follow in India.

1. Overtaking a truck on the left (should not be done, but inevitable in India).Especially on a two lane when you run the risk of an idiot coming on the wrong side of the road or a parked vehicle sitting right there.

In cities, overtaking from the left at slower speeds is absolutely fine. If you are turning left, or the vehicle in the right lane seems to want to turn right, go ahead and overtake from the left by all means. On highways, overtaking heavy vehicles from the left becomes essential when the HTV sticks to the right lane - they do this just to avoid weaving across lanes because the left lane has vulnerable slow moving traffic - bicycles, 2-wheelers, 3-wheelers etc. You as the driver of the more nimble car (with lesser blind spots) can overtake while avoiding these slow moving vehicles; but always be mindful of maintaining the lateral CAS.

2. The need sometimes to weave between lines of trucks who are hogging all the lanes at very slow speed. Again, should not be done, but absolutely unavoidable, especially when a queue of cars build up behind you and if you don't do it, the cars behind take even crazier risks. Sometimes defensive driving is doing the wrong thing, if it will prevent an even riskier situation from developing.

Again, weaving is fine, as long as forward, rear and lateral CAS is maintained - and when merging into the front of another vehicle, make sure you give him enough space (the 2-headlights-in-ORVM rule).

Originally Posted by malim

I've found that this sometimes puts me on the receiving end of road rage from drivers who think they are entitled to use every inch of road space. Happens a lot at multilane choke points where the default "me first" behavior results in a 3-lane road holding 4 lines of cars.

The guy desperately honking behind you to get alongside with 3 inches of lateral space to spare is certainly enraged. But letting him into that space is more unsafe than holding him back. If you must let him pass, pull over at a convenient passing point (wider road) and give him space enough to get fully ahead past you and drive away. What he thinks of your driving skills is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by hagarthenormal

...the eyes and the associated apparatus just seem to optimise for fore vision based danger detection. And this acute optimisation increases with speed, which is quite dangerous for Indian conditions, where people/animals cross the road even on roads divided with barriers (many accidents on Bangalore - Mysore road are proof of this).

It is described as tunnel vision.

One way to make this life saving tip less of a chore on highways, is to make a conscious attempt to enjoy the landscape around wherever possible. Helps the heart and the brain too.

Frequent ORVM checks on both sides (once every 5-8 seconds) as a habit prevents tunnel vision. Enjoying the scenery can well take one's focus off the task at hand, i.e. keeping the car straight on the road.

Originally Posted by Sen

This is one of the most crucial and important threads I've ever seen on safety, especially in India. I've circulated this as much as I can already, hope more folks become aware of lane discipline, and eventually, right of way as well.
I learned a LOT from this thread as well, here's to being a better driver!
Last but not the least, thanks for sharing! I usually lurk, but this thread was too important to pass by without comment

I am glad this thread has been of help to many of you.

Originally Posted by silverado

Adding my 2 cents, in slow moving Traffic i stick to right most lane so that i only have to worry about left side of my car.

That is certainly not what you should be doing. However, this is a natural tendency - the right kerb is like the handrail of a flight of stairs. When climbing a long flight of stairs, most folks woud stick to the side where the handrail is, because the handrail gives one a sense of safety. But keeping to the right at all times as well as driving slow actually obstructs free flow of traffic as well as forces others to overtake from the left - and there fly the rules of the road out of the window. I don't blame you for it, though. Many driving training schools as newbie drivers to stick to the right, irrespective of rules and consequences. Here's a video from my dashcam, from many years ago. I did ask some Maruti Driving School trainers why they do this - and their answer was the stair-climbing analogy that I've described above.

https://youtu.be/QAGX_M7mPcU

Its always important to change lanes gracefully, and remember not everyone watches your indicators. Always assume that people will not, i have had a biker hit my car when he tried to squeeze in gap even though i had put on indicators well in advance.
Always be on a lookout for people especially the ones driving cars , they can have improper judgment when they are using mobiles.

When switching to the next lane, always assume that the vehicle coming up behind has lost his brakes (or is busy on his mobile, or is blind to the amber colour of your indicator, as you might want to say). So the manoeuvre must be completed without forcing the other vehicle to brake.

Originally Posted by pariwar

Check in your rear view mirror and only when you see the overtaken vehicle in it, you start the process of changing lanes back into the original lane. This ensures that there is sufficient gap between you and the vehicles and you have also checked in the blind spots.

Many vehicles nowadays come equipped with lane-changing indicators, where tapping the indicator switch once in either direction causes the light to blink 3 or 5 times. That is usually enough to let the person behind / ahead know that you are changing lanes.

Originally Posted by Strider24

...here is small video from KIA on how to use your ORVMs effectively eveb without a blind spot mirrors.
I believe in European market the blind spot mirrors are inbuild to vehicle's ORVM, but these are mostly limited to either full size trucks or on lorries etc.

Yes, setting up the ORVMs correctly (read: the bodyline of the car is not visible in the mirrors) eliminates the need for those convex blind spot mirrors in the LMVs we drive. Many cars have ORVMs with a variable curvature, that allows a wider view (more convex) at the outer edge. These help too.

Originally Posted by sushantr5

When I drive in India, co-passengers always find it unnecessary about my shoulder check habit. I am always laughed out about my habit. This is our ignorance and omission of really important safety measure.

Don't worry about it. Co-passengers in India also always find it unnecessary to put on seat belts. It's all about doing the right thing, not pleasing everyone.

Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI

Adding a practical dimension from our roads, do not change lanes all of a sudden to dodge a pothole which you unexpectedly encountered. Grit your teeth and take the thud if need be (also applies to sudden halts for the same reason).
My personal experience (scare) was a large vehicle in the distance ahead in the rightmost lane which kept growing bigger till it turned out it was stationary and broken down. The call was to brake hard and stay in the lane hoping the car behind also did the same.

Which is why, on roads riddled with potholes, it is important to have extra CAS ahead of you (increase CAS by 1-2 seconds, and even more if you have a tailgater). Following the vehicle ahead too closely leads to the surprise of a pothole suddenly appearing in front of your tyre, leaving you no time to brake.

Originally Posted by Aravind_M92

Now it's all about let him pass and cruise along between 1-1500 rpm! I've barely Crossed 3000 rpm in the past 10000 kms ( I've covered about 60k kms in my car since her purchase in 2016).

Remember the Indian truck driver's prayer: Do not kill me, and do not die under my vehicle. Just get me safely to my destination.

Originally Posted by condor

...the point of being able to view both headlamps of the overtaken vehicle - as mentioned in the drivers' handbooks in US / other countries - cant be applied fully here in India (my observation). We often dont have a sufficiently open merge zone to do this. When overtaking trucks and other slower vehicles, one headlamp coming into view fully is sufficient. If the overtaken vehicle is a car/faster vehicle - and if that driver is not taking affront to the overtaking maneuver, then a sufficient guideline would be - being able to see at least half the other vehicle in your side RVM.

This will depend on the speeds of both vehicles. Set up 2 static vehicles, in either the one headlight situation, or the 2 headlight situation. You'll find that in the 1-headlight-visible state, the gap is in the region of 15-20 metres (rear of your car to front end of the car behind), which is much less than the 2-second CAS at 60 kmph. May not be able to sustain the faster speed once you merge back into his lane, so effectively you have moved into the other vehicle's front CAS, forcing him to brake and fall back. A truck will easily need 4 seconds of CAS to be safe. That is not safe driving, is it? (You need to calculate how far a vehicle travels in 1 second when travelling at 60 kmph).

Originally Posted by turbowhistle

Lovely thread and very informative for sure! It's sad that we as a forum have to take up these topics and inform/educate people when there should be things already in place by the goventment at the time we obtain the license. I learned a lot of these things while converting my license in Germany and realised we are missing this back home. But kudos to Team-BHP!!

The government's focus is on road safety without including training of the key player in road safety - the driver.

...most of the newer cars I drive come with blind spot monitor. My car even shows it on HUD so you don't even have to do a shoulder check most times. It might not be taught in next 5-10 years when the feature trickles down to common cars

Blind spot monitors have their limitations in India. The prepetual beeping of objects in your blind spot would drive most folks crazy.

Originally Posted by vineetklkrn

...in most cases I see Trucks occupying the right most lanes. Leaving us to always overtake from left lane and return back to lane of choice like middle if driving casually or right if moving fast.
On my trip abroad to Germany, I noticed all the trucks lining up on the slow lane. Somehow it is opposite here in India. This I believe is single most deterrent to follow lane discipline.

This also has to do with the differential speed limit on Indian highways. Trucks in most countries follow the same speed limit that a smaller car does, but here you'd be doing 100 kmph while the truck is doing 60 kmph by law (and due to speed governors in some trucks). We assume that the truck driver is an idiot, and cannot control his vehicle at higher speeds than 60 kmph.

Originally Posted by mygodbole

As I and many of my city-mates say again and again: If you can ride a bike or drive a car in Pune, you can ride or drive anywhere in the world.
My assessment is that most people are willing to follow the relevant rules if 'everyone else' follows them too. Even the most disciplined driver will have to remodel their skills to suit their environment. And ditto for an unruly driver.
One point that I have observed in New Delhi and Pune is that people already in a roundabout come to a stop in the roundabout. Road users still outside the roundabout get right of way. That leads to traffic snarls. I think Mumbai has eliminated most roundabouts. Not seen roundabouts in other places that I have visited. Just an observation.

The problem is that no one in India follows any kind of Right of Way rules. It would be impossible to make the majority of Indian drivers relearn driving by following such rules - so we try to stay safe despite others not following these rules.

Originally Posted by Sarinkrc

this is why there's no lane discipline in India. Drivers need to be properly . When i got my license from India only thing i had to do was to pass reverse test & after changing gear to the second I got my license. When we go to outside countries for example in the Middle East all people from India are properly trained for lane discipline , changing lanes , shoulder check , blind spot check .

LOL! Indian drivers are not allowed to drive in many countries of the Middle-East with their Indian licences! They know how badly we drive!

Originally Posted by anoopelias

If I remember correctly, not doing shoulder check during lane changing is a severe mistake in UK license road test. You can fail the entire test with one such mistake.

That is true in many countries, not just the UK.

Originally Posted by narmad

I...was advised to imagine my old grandmother sitting with an hot cup of coffee and to drive accordingly.

A cup of boiling hot coffee, almost full to the brim, and without a lid!

[silverado]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

But keeping to the right at all times as well as driving slow actually obstructs free flow of traffic as well as forces others to overtake from the left

I dont keep to right at all times, its only in slow moving traffic that i find comfort in keeping at right. And again this is only when i need to go straight and i am not nearing any junction. I admit i have been guilty at times for this kind of behavior where in i have landed in lane which is meant for turning right or for U turn. Need to work on that part going ahead

[malim]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

The guy desperately honking behind you to get alongside with 3 inches of lateral space to spare is certainly enraged. But letting him into that space is more unsafe than holding him back. If you must let him pass, pull over at a convenient passing point (wider road) and give him space enough to get fully ahead past you and drive away. What he thinks of your driving skills is irrelevant.

With you there. If he squeezes in then fall back to maintain safe distance. It may feel like you're effectively moving backward in traffic but in the end what matters is staying safe.

[Piyush_DT]

Excellent thread!

One tip from me on to how drive in middle/center of lane and not at the corners. If you drive while looking at the White lane markings, you are tend to drive on them and you are not at the center. However, if you look at the middle/center of the lane, you will drive in center and will be in the lane.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by condor

Thanks, SS-da.
Cant stress enough on this point, or #3 about a clear merge-area.

However, the point of being able to view both headlamps of the overtaken vehicle - as mentioned in the drivers' handbooks in US / other countries - cant be applied fully here in India (my observation). We often dont have a sufficiently open merge zone to do this. When overtaking trucks and other slower vehicles, one headlamp coming into view fully is sufficient. If the overtaken vehicle is a car/faster vehicle - and if that driver is not taking affront to the overtaking maneuver, then a sufficient guideline would be - being able to see at least half the other vehicle in your side RVM.

Isn't this also partly driven by ORVM positioning? I always position ORVMs so that I can see the tail of the car. It helps me gauge gaps better and reduce blind spots. I find that the 2 headlight thing works here.

[condor]

Originally Posted by chinkara

Isn't this also partly driven by ORVM positioning?

Two headlight view works at all times. Regarding ORVM positioning - you know your car. Overtaking is a part of the art of driving - all by judgement.

Unlike the Coyote in that Road Runner episode, No one is going to sit and make calculations before doing an overtake.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by condor

Two headlight view works at all times. Regarding ORVM positioning - you know your car. Overtaking is a part of the art of driving - all by judgement.

Unlike the Coyote in that Road Runner episode, No one is going to sit and make calculations before doing an overtake.

You don't do it consciously but your subconscious does.
That is how "judgement" forms.

[condor]

Originally Posted by chinkara

You don't do it consciously but your subconscious does.

Isnt that what I said ?

Your car, your ORVM position. My car, my position for my ORVM. And we still will do our overtakes. We cant be discussing who's mirror is in the right position, or who's is in the in-correct position.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by Strider24

So this happened during my ongoing long road trip. While the overall experience so far has been amazing, one tyre blowout experience gave us trouble in the middle of an empty highway.


Thanks a lot.

I don't mean any offense but I feel compelled to ask this question. Why was your father straddling both lanes on an almost empty highway? The brick (and the resulting blowout) could have been totally avoided if the driver had chosen one single lane and stuck to it. Or were you merging back into the right lane after overtaking some vehicle in the right lane? If such is the case, then it is understandable. If not, please add this point to the lesson learnt section.

Again, I don't intend to any disrespect but drivers who straddle both lanes on an empty highway simply annoy me more than right lane hoggers. Such drivers force faster moving traffic to lose momentum and attempt dangerous maneuvers to get around the errant vehicle (the lane straddler).

[supertinu]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

I don't mean any offense but I feel compelled to ask this question. Why was your father straddling both lanes on an almost empty highway? The brick (and the resulting blowout) could have been totally avoided if the driver had chosen one single lane and stuck to it. Or were you merging back into the right lane after overtaking some vehicle in the right lane? If such is the case, then it is understandable. If not, please add this point to the lesson learnt section.

Again, I don't intend to any disrespect but drivers who straddle both lanes on an empty highway simply annoy me more than right lane hoggers. Such drivers force faster moving traffic to lose momentum and attempt dangerous maneuvers to get around the errant vehicle (the lane straddler).

Sticking to lane would have avoided the incident is true but then in hindsight many more things could have been done.

Not to defend the driver, but i just did a cross country drive from Bangalore to Punjab on NH44 and ended up doing the same middle of 2 lanes driving. Left lane is too disrupting due to wrong side drivers and slow 2/4 wheelers. And sticking to fast right lane is too dangerous due to sudden cattle crossing and 2 wheelers jumping curbs. I had a close shave with a cow on right lane.

[shravansp24]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

drivers who straddle both lanes on an empty highway simply annoy me more than right lane hoggers.

To be honest, when there's only 2 lanes available in a NH, I myself will be driving in the middle of the 2 lanes when the road is absolutely empty(+/- 500m), such that I can atleast have some greater bandwith of time to avoid when an animal, human, slow moving/ wrong side motorcycles or something that is hiding behind the bushes in the median or on the sidepath decides to jump into my way.(You can find multiple threads in out tbhp threads under 'Road Safety' about accidents in NH due to jaywalkers, animals jumping from median etc.)

But I do always keep an eye on my IRVM and if I spot any fast approaching vehicle, I'll swiftly move to the right or the left lane depending on my speed and other circumstances.

And on the contrary, when the highway is 'not empty', I'll always stick to one proper lane, such that it is safe for myself and not affecting the driveability of my fellow commuters