[Vishal.R]

Our last two purchases (Ignis and S-presso) are from Maruti, and there were strong reasons to go for these cars, over others like Tiago.

I am driving ZEST since last six years so have realistic idea about ownership and quality of TATA cars. Even I can be considered a happy TATA consumer but I don't have any doubts about existence of scope of improvements in many aspects like QC, Service quality, product management etc.

Having said that, this thread does not offer any points against TATA which requires objective discussion, and looks like result of either extreme fanboyism of Suzuki or with some vested interest by someone associated with Suzuki.

[Slick]

I think this topic has been discussed to death so creating a thread about this doesn't make any sense to me, unless it is to vent out or bash Tata. I am not sure if OP owns a Tata, makes the thread all the more suspect.

Tata seems to be ruffling some feathers here, else why the outcry?

Companies in general tend to exaggerate the quality/ features of their products. Average performance cars are tagged Sport, Sticker jobs are special edition. A car manufacturer will do anything as long as it is legally acceptable.
Some Adverts of Maruti & Hyundai have been shared by Bhpians.


The title made me feel like a scandal had been unearthed, only to suggest that Harpic doesn't kill 99.99% germs but only 89% so it is a scam, but I am ok to use a product that kills 60%.

I also saw an interesting & well written post on this thread (since deleted, I assume for perceived personal attack, though it seemed like a good point) highlighting OP's angst on anyone criticising Maruti, showed a concrete bias.


I think we should avoid being blind fans, to the level that we bash the competition.
I hope Maruti forces Tata to make more reliable cars and Tata forces Maruti to make safer cars, that's how we, Bhpians, benefit.


- Slick


PS - We have known historically that car manufacturers use Team- Bhp for feedback, I have always wondered, what stops the PR teams of these brands from logging on to team-bhp and slandering each other?

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Slick

PS - We have known historically that car manufacturers use Team- Bhp for feedback, I have always wondered, what stops the PR teams of these brands from logging on to team-bhp and slandering each other?

Mods.

They are the ones who identify registered members who might be PR teams. Getting to BHPian level from Newbie level needs 25 posts that will be reviewed by mods before it gets posted. So, they can't just yet show their colours in their first 25 posts. Beyond that, honestly, It isn't hard to identify them. Usually they are infracted a few times and eventually are permanently banned if their PR behavior does not come to a stop.

You and me can help too, by reporting such posts/members.

This is one instance we must feel glad that getting a TeamBHP membership approved is quite a task in itself.

If it was open for all, TeamBHP would have looked like a giant YouTube comments section, full of stupidity and spam, with no useful content.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Slick

I have always wondered, what stops the PR teams of these brands from logging on to team-bhp and slandering each other?

Cough, cough... we stop, I mean support team watches out like a hawk and stops them.

Check this old comment from GTO. We have been watchful of ORMs for a long time.

[Rolling_Stock]

Tata Motors ain't the saints, nobody expects them to be so. But, by doubting their intent, we are indeed shooting the messenger !!

The traffic conditions that prevail, the growing road infrastructure and associated increasing speed limits, the mismanagement of driver's licensing, etc, all lead to the need for a safety element in the design of the car. This is what should be the outcome of risk assessment. If Tata is trying to address this gap from the design stage, we should commend it.

Coming to the specific topic of Harrier / Safari not being tested voluntarily by Tata is a fair expectation, but cannot be a reason to question their intent without evidence.

As a layman, if I'm correct the oil filter (presumably the culprit) would consists of a housing, filtering element, drain pipe, spring retainer and a cover. The housing is normally constructed using a 18/19 gauge sheet. I fail to understand how a steel structure around the footwell can be so flimsy to allow the intrusion of the oil filter, thus impacting the tibia (shinbone) of the driver. I might be totally wrong in this assessment, but if someone could throw light on this would be great for the understanding of the mass.

[Slick]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Mods....


You and me can help too, by reporting such posts/members.

This is one instance we must feel glad that getting a TeamBHP membership approved is quite a task in itself.

If it was open for all, TeamBHP would have looked like a giant YouTube comments section, full of stupidity and spam, with no useful content.

Absolutely and I spend time on team-bhp because of the quality content, I have always appreciated the filter that we have here, makes spending time worth it. Good analogy - Youtube comments.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Cough, cough... we stop, I mean support team watches out like a hawk and stops them.

Check this old comment from GTO. We have been watchful of ORMs for a long time.

Yes, those policies make all the difference

[ashokabs]

Interestingly if you look at the list of most trusted companies in India especially from the investors viewpoint most polls have put the Tata Group on top. There must be variations in how each company in the Group deals with issues of trust but the Group's overwhelming call to it's constituents is to be upfront and ethical. When the dust settles I would not be surprised if Tata Motors will emerge with the least egg on their face.

[VVN]

The only response this thread needs is "LOL" but TBHP rules don't allow me to post it. Granted that TATA is far from being the Saint that it portrays itself to be but in this day and age, Tata and Mahindra are the only ones with some sort of moral dignity to address the elephant in the room. And trust me, the elephant has been in the room for years.

I found the OP defending Swift in another thread and the opening post of this thread again spoke about it. This is a clear case of bias. Swift is a tin can and will always be just like Honda City is (I own a City btw). There are no two ways about it. It is what it is. Tata may not manufacture the 'Safest' car in India but they sure as hell are miles ahead of Maruti, Hyundai and Kia.

I am all for discussions and good content but I was surprised to see this post on the homepage. At the risk of sounding negative, this thread is biased and doesn't deserve any more comments or homepage visibility.

[Drlmtukkar]

This posts title is totally misleading and I believe it needs to be changed or deleted. I’ve used both Suzuki cars and Tata products and firmly know that the feeling of robustness and toughness of the TATA products is a no brainer. Yes there are some short comings but none in the safety department I believe. Who ever has doubt’s about Tata motor’s safety ratings is purely based on the hate they have for Tata brand. Actually we need to be proud of Tata motors and Mahindra for giving us cars with such good safety rating. We should all do I our bit and support them rather than shameless trying to blame our own people. Stop buying Japanese n Korean products and for God’s sake ban the Chinese ones. I find it shameful that so many of Chinese cars are being sold in India. History just repeating itself ‘A nation let down by back stabber’.
Be Careful Indian buy Indian.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

Quite frankly, unless the Compass has been tested in the exact configuration it is sold in India (RHD+2.0MJD), I couldn't care less about EURO NCAP conflating the ratings of two quite different cars (LHS vs RHD).
....

Had missed this post.

There is a lot of subjectivity and opinions and unconfirmed stuff around why the RHD versions with Fiat's MJD have been tested or not. Many points to consider. The link and the post by @Torqueindia add another point worth considering, since it specifically gives a RHD based on the said MJD in the 5 star list of EuroNCAP. (I do realize that vehicles can have different structural strengths in their different avatars)

How much to care for what is an entirely personal decision. I'm in no rush to pronounce any vehicle, Tata or other, a death trap.

For me, I place limited value to crash tests to start with, and more to being alert and keeping the car mechanically sound and tyres in good shape and properly inflated (think TPMS) to the extent viable; and to drive accordingly when not so. Having EBD, ABS, ESP to minimise the chances of a collision ans might more important towards safety. When in a dicey situation, being able to avert or minimize the speed at impact might count for more, than a star or two in a NCAP.

To each his own

[Neversaygbye]

Originally Posted by VVN

I am all for discussions and good content but I was surprised to see this post on the homepage. At the risk of sounding negative, this thread is biased and doesn't deserve any more comments or homepage visibility.

I agree - a speculative post that is biased and bashes a brand for no reason should not get so much visibility.

It's not that Tata is great and the best there is - there are many things to improve, as has been mentioned in umpteen posts. But that is true for all OEMs. No OEM is perfect and we have to give credit where it's due.

However, I think the purpose of the post has spectacularly backfired. Not that I'm happy about that. TBHP is an enthusiast's forum and unbiased opinions and reviews is one of the things that makes it great. It will be a shame if that aspect gets diluted due to the biased agenda of a few fanboys.

[vik99]

GNCAP really should buy a Harrier/Safari/Hector/Compass from a dealership and test it. The Harrier/Safari not being tested is what makes folks question their neutrality.

A vehicle with a higher GNCAP rating will be safer in scenarios tested than a lesser rated one. That is a big deal given how some vehicles seem to be so badly put together especially for our market.

While it can't be denied that GNCAP rating related marketing buzz has made people more conscious of crash test safety, what we really need is BNVSAP to become operational ASAP.

[Geta]

Originally Posted by racer_ash

Sorry. I don't get the point of this thread. In the same way, we can start threads like 'Is Maruti really the mileage king as it claims to be?'. Is Kia/Hyundai really the luxury and perfect SUV brand it claims to be? Is MG really as British as it claims to be?

It is simple. Nobody is going to lose their life/lives of loved ones if Maruti is not the mileage king it claims to be. But when someone buys a Harrier/Safari assuming them to be 5 star safe as advertised misleadingly, he may land up in serious trouble.

Yes, Maruti should be seriously bashed for its "Dil Se Strong" campaign, but we just see it as a joke from a bunch of clowns, not even worthy of bashing. Tata gets bashed because it has more credibility when it comes to safety and also because it was the one who initiated the campaign mocking other cars based on their GNCAP scores ("crash date with i20", "jackpot with siwtf" etc)

Yes, MG has been bashed (also Renault, when it tried to project Captur as the one sold in Europe) enough in this forum for its misleading claims.

[DieselAddikt]

I can only laugh at being so proactive about "safety" and then supporting Maruti for producing unsafe cars. I have only one thing to say. I will buy a car that is rated 4 or 5 starts in GNCAP (how much ever flawed the testing is) and not buy something that was rated 0 or 2 stars with a comment of "unstable body structure". Sometimes, it can well be the difference between life and death. And I am not ready to take changes there. If the OP has a difference in opinion, then he is free to buy the Swift. No one stops anyone from doing that. But to start a thread based on assumptions and then bashing a manufacturer does not look good. I hope Mods take some action. This thread doesn't stand for anything meaningful or constructive. The only thing it does is to give Tata a negative vibe when they are the ones who actually educated common car buyers on something called safety. And looking at more of the posts by Mr X, I have all the more reasons to believe that this is something like a hidden agenda.
Yes, people who want good service will continue to buy Maruti and people who are worried about safety will look elsewhere. Let this continue and one fine day, we might get safer cars from Maruti as well. That is what we all want, isn't it ?

[speedguy]

So what should Tata do now as per the initiator of this thread? Do they need to withdraw all the safety ratings they have achieved for other cars as they've not submitted Harried & Safari yet to GNCAP? Do they need to say sorry for not publishing Nexon EV's GNCAP score?
I mean get real sir. Tata & Mahindra single handedly introduced safety as an important point to Indians. GNCAP score is valid for 1 year from the test. As other car (Namely XUV 300) is better than Nexon, then there is no point to publish & market safety score again. Nexon, Tiago, Altroz, Tigor EV, Punch. Out of 7 cars from Tata stable, 5 are tested & verified. What else can they do?
It is like a Batsman scores century in 120 balls and others who score 0 are asking the centurion why you have wasted 20 more balls..