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5th December 2021, 10:10 | #16 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Guys, we are all being mislead here. We should not be questioning Tata or Mahindra here. Rather, we should be focusing on the testing agency, Glocal NCAP as per the follows: 1. The are a UK based non profit who are focused on testing cars in India & Africa. But why? What does a UK based non-profit have anything to do with India? Why the exclusive interest with Indian cars? What happened to the rest of the countries? Does "Global" stand for "Desi"? 2. Their used to initially test the base models of cars buy buying it anonymously so that manufacturers would not rig the test cars. This has now evolved into them giving out ratings to cars before it has even been launched (Tata Punch). 3. Testing process: Harrier and Safari have not been tested, side impact testing for the XUV 300 was done on the passenger side, all others were tested on the driver side. Source: Got this info from a malayalam YT video the other day. |
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5th December 2021, 10:17 | #17 | |
BHPian | re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
Tata bashing or otherwise, the thread is relevant to pull data from across the respective threads into a single thread of safety. People interested in particular models only drop in on those threads, while a common thread like this concerns all. Any debates regarding safety should be left open for healthy discussions if we are serious about promoting safety consciousness among the market. So if we can add any other value to the OPs theme we should, rather than bring up a shield for his sword and start the blind bash and defend spiral. I'm not against Tata, I owned both their cheapest and costliest cars of the time, (see signature). I still drive around in an airbag-less Safari Storme but can't let go of it for a lack of a better option. So here's my 2 cents to add. Firstly, Tata has morphed into a company that makes world class designs which are eye candies and gorgeous to look at. Kudos to the team and Impact Design Philosophy that has been done right, in every offering of theirs. The Tatas have been a crucial tipping point in making safety talk mainstream and an advertisable feature. Praise where it's due. The disgrunt is because of their partial treatment of their flagships and casual extension/implication of lower car's safety performance all the way up to the flagship twins. I've been test driving all their launches extensively and in my opinion I think Tata has two sub segments within its product line. 1. Nexon and Below Well engineered post extensive R&D, fresh products built well with- safety by design- as key differentiator to stand out from the crowded competition common in this price bracket. 2. Pedigree Twins. These were rushed to the market riding on pedigree talk and good looking designs, with single motivation of speed to market (launch well before XUV to cash in). In the flagship neighbourhood, Tata has been fumbling and dropping ball ever since the poor sales of the VFM Hexa, and then killing the Safari to the debated rename of the Gravitas. There has not been the kind of commitment and clear vision like the XUV7OO perhaps shows, to build a solid flagship with a sequential idea for future facelifts. Gold Edition with marble ? Really? What's next update a chandelier? The FCA engine and its effect on crash test ratings is becoming apparent and Tata simply cannot ride on its safety halo unabashedly built on lower models' performance. And frankly, the 'accident paparazzi' is becoming annoying showing the twins pounding other cars on the road. I'd rather the accident did not occur in the first place. Last edited by vigneshkumar31 : 5th December 2021 at 10:47. | |
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5th December 2021, 10:19 | #18 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Think people seem really confused about the meaning of NCAP ratings. What does GNCAP test? It tests a car crashing into a static barrier with a lateral offset at 64 kmph. This is the equivalent of two cars of similar weight crashing into each other at 32 kmph. Like any test, it is not perfect. On Indian highways, you are far more likely to crash either into a truck or bus, or a small car (sub 4 m). The outcomes will of course be very different. Let’s say you are in your Punch with a kerb weight of 1000 kg. If you crash into a LCV with a GVW of 8000 kg while moving at 32 kmph, your Punch gets the same impact from the LCV moving at 11 kmph as it would crashing into another Punch moving at 32 kmph. On the other hand in an XUV 700 with a kerb weight of 2000 kg, the LCV would have to be moving at 16 kmph to deliver the GNCAP impact to you. In short, as should be obvious, a car which weighs twice as much is twice as safe if they both have similar GNCAP results (or it can protect you at 40% higher speed). So while the Safari may not get a 5 star rating (and I will believe the sources that it is unlikely to get even 4 star - else Tata would have sent it for testing), it is still likely to be safer than a Punch in a head on collision. Further, the speed at which the collision takes place is very important - hence the importance of good brakes to both reduce the risk of the collision and reduce the relative velocity if it happens- which is why I always found the Fortuner (for example) which had terrible brakes to be an unsafe car. As for Tata Motors, they have taken on the positioning based on safety - I think it is highly unlikely that having done that, they will go the Maruti way and design cars to be unsafe (or less safe). While it is highly likely that the Safari will not in current form get a 5 star rating, I won’t hold that against Tata Motors. For their volume products, they have done more than any other player to highlight the importance of safety. And that has induced folks like Mahindra to follow suit. Do not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. |
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5th December 2021, 10:25 | #19 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Tata Motors did a wonderful job educating the market about crash safety because that's the only USP they had when they started with the Nexon. Let them reap the benefits while they can. Last edited by Aditya : 6th December 2021 at 05:25. Reason: Off-topic part deleted |
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5th December 2021, 10:33 | #20 | |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
Then I realize this is probably a tata bashing thread. | |
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5th December 2021, 10:39 | #21 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Asking the wrong questions again are we? Tata and Mahindra have done great in making safety a mainstream concern. And they are not the first one to attempt this. Toyota had earlier tried endorsing the Etios twins for its safety ratings. But those were different times and it sunk without a trace. Tata and Mahindra didn't start on a great note with GNCAP. Remember the crumbling Scorpio and 0 star Zest and Nano?? But both these companies took an effort to understand the situation and modified their products accordingly. The Nexon already has a "safe car" image why bother with the facelift and EV considering it is the same car? The Tigor is a "flop" model so it needs as much attention as it can get. The EV also hasn't gained traction. The Harrier/Safari debacle has been discussed enough in the Safari thread. Nothing other than a GNCAP test can settle that matter. Mahindra has been going great guns on all its new launches post XUV 300. Hats off to them. So more or less these companies have been doing something or the other. Honda and Toyota enjoyed enough snob value early on. They didn't need a differentiator to sell their models. However their story today is altogether another issue. The Germans were always considered well built. Coming to the main topic, Tata might be no Saint but definitely is not a sinner like MS. The top bosses publicly diss safety. No effort to improve low scoring models. And the shameless puke-inducing parading of the Wagon R as "dil se strong". I'll side be with Tata on this one. |
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5th December 2021, 10:39 | #22 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Tata has done far far more for safety in India than any of these concern troll threads. The fact that they sell sturdy well-built cars and competitive prices has kick started safety consciousness in a big way. |
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5th December 2021, 10:52 | #23 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? One thing to note is that these tests keep evolving and the requirements keep getting more strict. The same 2015 model which was rated 5* when new might get a lower rating by 2021 standards. While saying I don't trust Tata or GNCAP is strong statement, I'd say that I take all the ratings and manufacturer claims with a pinch of salt. i.e. Tata may not be the bosses as they claim and Maruti may not be as bad as the press portrays them to be. The key is for India to start standardizing stringent crash testing requirements. We boast of world class highways (and road infrastructure); Adding world class car crash safety to that list should be top priority. |
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5th December 2021, 11:34 | #24 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Kudos to the OP. These are some important questions that need to be answered. Cars like the Tata Safari and Tata Harrier which aren't crash tested do pose a serious question on their safety. If TaMo is scared to send its Pedigree Twins to GNCAP which has relatively easy standards, while it proudly sends it's Altroz and Punch via the sponsored route before launch, it proves to show that something is seriously wrong. Even without crash test ratings I can confidently say that the twins will be safer than any run of the mill Maruti Suzuki, it still leads me to wonder what is the flaw in the twins holding Tata back. I do appreciate TaMo's strive to make safer cars for India but selective transparency is not the way to go. |
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5th December 2021, 11:43 | #25 | |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
These have not been tested so it's a misleading ad. Safari and Harrier may or may not be safe cars but till the time they have a proof of being safe they should not advertise them in the safest car ads. It's like Maruti showing an ad with Brezza with 4 stars and all other untested Maruti cars in tow with an ad claiming 4 star safety cars. Last edited by Aditya : 11th December 2021 at 06:32. Reason: Capital letters | |
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5th December 2021, 11:44 | #26 | |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
For a good part of the last decade, very few people even considered their cars, there was too much stigma attached to buying a TATA, cabbies were more interested and private owners rarely visited the showrooms. However, even then, their cars were on point being extremely spacious, superb ride on broken roads, sturdily built and priced competitively, they just lacked in design. Doing so many things right and still not being able to sell your cars must have been harrowing for them. However, I don't agree with you that the biggest sinner is Maruti Suzuki. They never tried to deceive customers by portraying their cars as safe - heck, their senior officials diss safety at every opportunity they get. They have always portrayed their cars as the most fuel efficient and they have been truthful about it. Moreover, there expensive cars like the Brezza, Ertiga etc. have performed decently at crash tests. When you buy a MS, you know what you are getting into. The biggest sinners, IMO, are the Koreans. They make their cars to give you a feeling of good build, stuff them with airbags and all the electronic wizardry, price them high (to confirm with the belief - good things cost a premium) and then cheap out on the structure of the car which a customer cannot see nor would come to his mind either. They are like a friend who appears loyal to you when the time is good and then stabs you when you are low. They are the Brutus of the Julius Caesar! Imagine a layman buying a 20 lakh crossover - it has good heft in the doors, has all the safety gadgets, the same model has scored 5 stars in other countries, this car is safe that is what he must have thought only to get stabbed in the back! The reality is - the Korean cars have failed crash tests across the price spectrum and at the same time none of their cars will give you a feeling of poor build, like the MS cars do. So, the Koreans are the biggest sinners. Last edited by Candy$Cars : 5th December 2021 at 11:45. | |
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5th December 2021, 12:16 | #27 | |||||||||||
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
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If anyone reading this post found the relevant excerpts I have quoted here helpful, please do thank BHPian ron178 on his original posts instead of hitting the thanks button on this post. Last edited by rpm : 5th December 2021 at 12:36. | |||||||||||
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5th December 2021, 12:20 | #28 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?
Wrong! Please stop getting baited by these brand X vs brand Y comparison threads/posts. Every brand that sells well has an USP that draws in a segment of the market. -The Koreans brought latest feature and design at affordable prices. -MSIL provides fill-it, forget-it fuss free ownership for the average customer. -Toyota have rugged and reliable going for them. -Mahindra peddles utility and lifestyle. -Ford and GM couldn't provide anything unique and had to shut shop. -TaMo had nothing going for them so they latched onto safety (and edgy design) now the market is safety conscious and the other players are beginning to see value in marketing safety. Thanks TaMo for that. -Soon MG is going to capture a significant percentage of the market share (~10%) given their focus on features, design and affordability. Instead of engaging in these mindless threads we should rejoice that qualified competition is increasing. I want MSIL market share to go down, MG's to increase and that might just happen. Enjoy the fact that even sub 15Lakh cars now have a 7-8 inch touch screen, digital cockpit and panoramic sunroof. Thank competition and encourage competition. |
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5th December 2021, 12:22 | #29 | |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Quote:
It still doesn't prove that what I said was wrong. Last edited by Candy$Cars : 5th December 2021 at 12:29. | |
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5th December 2021, 12:27 | #30 |
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| re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be? Instead of bashing Tata and Mahindra, can we discuss about the habitual offenders instead? Maruti and Hyundai have almost 70% market share in our country and all they do is dilute their international offerings under the disguise of localisation. Is Tata a saint? Absolutely not. Can we expect them to act like one? Nope. They are just like all the other automotive manufacturers who are in this for profits. Right now, safety sells in this market and they are cashing on it. Credit where it is due - the 2 manufacturers which are being bashed right left and centre are the ones who are at least providing relatively safe cars in this market. Instead of questioning a specific manufacturer, I think the discussion should instead focus on dearth of safe cars in our market. |
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