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3rd December 2021, 08:00 | #31 | ||||
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Even Latin NCAP seems to pick a random side to test. The Toyota Yaris, GM New Onix and most others were tested on the passenger side, the Nissan Murano and the Ford Ranger on the driver side (and possibly more, but I haven't found any). (The last one was conducted at a different laboratory (BASt FTVA, also in Germany), though, so I'm not sure if that had a role to play). Nevertheless I don't think of it as much of a goof, really, though I mentioned it as part of one. Quote:
At 4:47 you can see the dashboard nearly separating from the door pillar which could explain the integrity of passenger compartment modifier (unstable structure). At 5:38, you can see a before-and-after view of the rearward and upward displacement of the clutch and brake pedals, and it looks quite concerning. In other news, two new Latin NCAP results will be out at 7:30 p.m. IST today. Quote:
Any other configuration would classify as a far-side impact test, which could further be classified as follows: If the passenger side was struck and there was a dummy only on the driver seat, that would be the configuration used by Euro NCAP for assessing far-side occupant excursion (how far the non-struck side occupant's body parts move to the side struck by the MDB). Not even the more advanced NCAPs place a dummy on the non-struck side unless a countermeasure is fitted. (Citroën C4) Far-side occupant excursion being assessed in a sled test (Toyota Yaris Cross) On the other hand if there were dummies on both front seats, that would be the configuration for an occupant interaction test (to check interaction between body parts of both occupants). Euro NCAP presently conducts this test only if the car is fitted with a countermeasure to prevent interaction between the occupants, like a centre airbag. The Toyota Yaris Cross has a centre airbag so ANCAP placed a dummy on the non-struck side to assess occupant interaction Note that these side impact tests are different from Global NCAP's R95 test for a number of reasons, besides the fact that R95 is a pass/fail test while these tests are graded. Differences include 60km/h barrier speed instead of 50km/h, a heavier, more car-like barrier called the AE-MDB, and more advanced worldSID dummies developed specifically for side impact instead of Hybrid IIIs. Global NCAP does not perform either of these yet, and to the best of my knowledge Euro NCAP (and by extension ANCAP) is pretty much the only NCAP who performs these tests. Global NCAP is not likely to conduct these before 2026, or maybe even later, and by then I reckon a Bharat NCAP would have been set up and the Safer Cars for India project would likely have stopped. But I do not personally see any problem with any of the side impact tests conducted by Global NCAP as yet. Image credits: Euro NCAP/ANCAP Last edited by Aditya : 3rd December 2021 at 18:39. Reason: Back to back posts merged | ||||
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5th December 2021, 15:28 | #32 | ||||||
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained I'm replying here to some questions on the thread about Tata's advertising which are more suited to this thread, to prevent that thread from going any further off topic. As part of it I will also address some recent claims on the Internet questioning who Global NCAP is in the first place. Note that if I quote a member it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm specifically targeting that member in my reply (which is more generic to the issue on the Internet). Quote:
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When one says 'Global NCAP is a UK-based nonprofit', it seems like it's some sort of a company who's coming out of the blue and crash testing cars from random markets. It's really not. The people responsible for Global NCAP have been involved with Euro NCAP and others for a very long time. I know Max Mosley was a controversial figure for whatever reasons there may be (I'm not quite clear about them since I'm not into Formula 1) but you have to remember that he was Global NCAP Chairman from the start until 2017, and this is the same person who helped found Euro NCAP and served as its President from 1997 to 2004. Similarly with Mr David Ward, current Global NCAP President, who campaigned against dilution of proposed regulatory crash test standards in the EU in the nineties (which today are known as UN R94, R95 etc. and are now applied in many countries around the world including India albeit modified as AIS-098 and 099), then in 1996 helped set up Euro NCAP and served on its board for ten years. So this is really nothing new. Global NCAP may have been founded just in 2011 and yes, it may be a 'UK-based non-profit' but you have to remember that the people behind it have a lot of experience in the area and know well how to deal with manufacturers and manufacturer associations. And you have to remember that Global NCAP has been here a bit longer than just Safer Cars for India. Unlike other NCAPs, Global NCAP also has to perform a lot of other duties than just test cars and issue ratings. They regularly lobby against manufacturer associations like OICA and ACEA who continuously push for the dilution and delay of regulation in third-world countries (if you see some of their statements you'll think RC Bhargava and Andy Palmer's statements are very sane in comparison). This was the reason Global NCAP was set up in the first place: all the work by the UN and Euro NCAP was only benefitting Europe and other developed markets. Just for example, Renault. They made the first ever car to score a five star adult protection rating in Euro NCAP, the Laguna back in 2002. This was followed by a literal barrage of five star cars like the Modus, the Espace and more. So when Renault-Nissan was developing low-cost cars with no airbags and likely failing to meet even the UN regulation - but only for emerging markets - like the Clio Mio, the Kwid and the GO, you can understand why it would worry the people who lobbied so hard against the same thing in developed markets. Global NCAP's crash test programmes are not just limited to India and Africa. Latin NCAP and ASEAN NCAP both were started in part because of Global NCAP. Global NCAP engaged with organisations and insurance companies in Latin America to set up an NCAP there, which then came to be known as Latin NCAP, which is a very high-profile programme today. They also engaged with the Malaysian Institute for Road Safety (MIRoS) to set up ASEAN NCAP for South-East Asia. MIRoS was very quick and set up a crash test laboratory (PC3) in the region and started testing for ASEAN NCAP. With India, it was slightly different. India was (and is) turning out to be one of the largest car markets and exporters globally and the lack of regulation or consumer information was concerning. However, unlike with Latin NCAP and ASEAN NCAP, they didn't get much local partnership. So instead of setting up a new NCAP they just started a 'demo' NCAP, which we know as Safer Cars for India, which functions like a proper NCAP but gets limited funds and can only test a few cars every year out of their pockets. The limited testing is why they want a full-fledged NCAP to be set up in India by the Government (Bharat NCAP or BNVSAP) and are continuously pushing for this, but in the meanwhile they will continue the Safer Cars for India project until this happens. It's not just India, then. It also affects markets we export to. A consumer in a neighbouring country for example will read about crash test results in India for cars exported from here. Take Nepal, for example. They don't have a Safer Cars for Nepal project. They don't have regulatory crash test standards. But Renault now sells the Kwid there with a driver's airbag and ABS brakes in its standard specification anyway. Correct me here if I'm wrong but I don't think this would have happened if this was 'only for India'. It's not ideal, and yes, Safer Cars for India protocols are updated much less frequently than proper NCAPs', but you have to remember that this is this only an intermediate project until a proper NCAP is set up here. So I think if one says that the people at Global NCAP don't know what they're doing, they're effectively questioning the integrity of Euro NCAP, Latin NCAP, ASEAN NCAP and pretty much everything other than ANCAP, the NHTSA and IIHS (and the NCAPs in China, Japan, Korea and Russia) - all of whom also engage very well with Global NCAP. Whether one wishes to do that or not is of course one's own choice. Bottom line - Global NCAP as an organisation is not really an NCAP, however funny it might sound. It's an organisation that promotes cooperation between NCAPs and helps establish new local, 'desi' NCAPs in more markets. Where this is not possible in a short time frame they have set up their own small crash test projects which will operate till an NCAP is set up in the region. Quote:
You really can't expect them to test every car on the market. Even if we had a proper NCAP they wouldn't be able to do test every car on sale, you can't possibly hold that against them. They'll test that model when they can, but that may not be soon, or ever. All we can do is hope. Quote:
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Last edited by ron178 : 5th December 2021 at 15:37. Reason: added link to thread | ||||||
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25th December 2021, 07:52 | #33 | ||
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Got answers for a few questions: Quote:
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6th January 2022, 11:39 | #34 |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Any update if reports in January expected for any Indian market cars? |
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6th January 2022, 12:41 | #35 | |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Quote:
There will likely be no updates about this until the official publication. They have very strict embargoes on which models have been tested, and obviously I didn't ask. He did mention that they have tested more models than usual. How many more models, that is not clear. I expect less than double the usual (maybe around 3-5 depending on how expensive the tested cars are). The delay in publication is also probably because Global NCAP had a very busy last quarter in 2021, especially for Latin NCAP. All I know is that the VW Taigun is not included, and there is a high possibility the MG Hector and Renault Kiger are, though it's possible that there is no truth to the rumours. Beyond that, no idea. | |
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9th January 2022, 20:21 | #36 | |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Percentage sales of cars with five-star Global NCAP ratings for adult protection more than double year-on-year (Source: Autohead) Link to Tweet Not sure which results have been considered as still valid in the calculation, especially for the zero-star cars. Quote:
Last edited by ron178 : 9th January 2022 at 20:24. | |
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17th January 2022, 09:38 | #37 | |||
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained GNCAP Safety Rated Passenger Vehicles in India - 2021 Quote:
Manufacturer wise GNCAP of their product portfolio Quote:
GNCAP - Unrated manufacturers Bodystyle wise GNCAP Rating Quote:
Last edited by Venkatesh : 17th January 2022 at 09:45. | |||
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25th January 2022, 20:13 | #38 | ||
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Quote:
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I haven't been sure whether he said 'later half' or 'last week' of January, but he definitely said somewhere in late January which is why I have said 'second half' in the past to be safe. Normally the results should be on schedule, which is why I am slightly confused, but sometimes there are issues which might delay results (it has happened with Latin NCAP in late 2016 and 2021). I still think the results will be published soon but I'm losing confidence day after day. Last edited by ron178 : 25th January 2022 at 20:37. | ||
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3rd February 2022, 23:50 | #39 |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Hi ron178 Curious to know if there has been any developments for the next round. I have been trying to shortlist cars for over 6 months now and the biggest hurdle holding me back is the lack of NCAP ratings for almost all the cars that interest me - i20 N Line, City, Kushaq |
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4th February 2022, 14:21 | #40 | |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Quote:
They are very hush-hush about which models they have tested. Out of the models you have mentioned, the only one which I personally think has a chance at being included is the Hyundai New i20. You will not see the new VW Group products in the next publication (unless there was a sudden change of plans). Maybe in the one after that (definitely not before July). I don't personally think they'll test the Honda New City in this publication unless Honda has sponsored a test (like in Latin America where they went aggressive on their safety strategy and sponsored their entire model range in 2015 right after Latin NCAP announced they would be updating their protocol in a year). It has side airbags and ESC in its basic specification so they would most likely want to test those systems too, which they can only do under their new assessment protocols (which will start in July). They might test another Honda model because no Honda model on sale in India has a rating and some of them are very popular. It has also been a long time since they tested a Honda for India. The only ones I am reasonably sure of are the Hector, Kiger and Nexon EV (all three based on rumours), but I still might be wrong about all three. Global NCAP make it very hard to determine what they're testing. I expect the Kiger's test to be voluntary. Not sure whether the Hector's test is voluntary or not, but if it is then it is possible (just a gut feeling) that MG have sponsored tests on their their other models. Most likely Global NCAP have also tested more models, but no idea which one(s) it/they might be. Last edited by ron178 : 4th February 2022 at 14:48. | |
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9th February 2022, 19:28 | #41 | |||||
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Quote:
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Link to Tweet *not sure how soon exactly. Yawn. Last edited by ron178 : 9th February 2022 at 19:30. | |||||
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10th February 2022, 07:29 | #42 |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained
Interesting analysis. I would also like to review the price vs Safety rating quadrant. Most of the tested and well-rated cars sit in the mid-price segment. Most of the upper price segment (>15 lac INR) has untested cars. |
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10th February 2022, 08:56 | #43 | |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Quote:
The best way to see more expensive models rated is by manufacturer sponsorship. In Latin NCAP for example, Toyota, VW and Seat have a habit of sponsoring nearly every new model right before launch, even the less popular ones like the RAV4 and Taos. Of course, this is because they expect them to perform well and intend to use the result as a sales argument (like Tata and Mahindra do in India), but at the end the consumer is informed. Sometimes even sponsored tests can expose unexpected anomalies, like the Indian airbag-equipped Duster, and this expensive, well-equipped, US-made CBU Nissan Murano sponsored by Nissan, that consumers in Latin America might have expected to perform like the US version. Last edited by ron178 : 10th February 2022 at 08:59. | |
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15th February 2022, 09:44 | #44 | |
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| Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained Not 100% sure but the new Global NCAP Safer Cars for India results could be published today. They might include the Renault Kiger (likely voluntary), Kia Carens (likely voluntary) and the Honda Jazz (not sure whether voluntary or not). Not sure whether the Hector (thanks to MG's Tweet) and Nexon EV (can't say why) are included. I could be completely wrong so best take it with a pinch of salt. Source (?) Quote:
Plus, the Jazz/WR-V are the only Hondas on sale with no ISOFIX anchorages, which the models get internationally. So maybe it was of particular interest especially considering that in Africa the Amaze's child dynamic test was an absolute nightmare even though the Q3 was in an ISOFIX seat. A full zero for dynamics. OR maybe Honda has sponsored it, in which case I would expect that they've sponsored other models too. Though I would have preferred to see the New City tested under the new protocol. Or, as I've said above, I might be entirely wrong. Can anyone identify the model at the bottom left? Last edited by ron178 : 15th February 2022 at 10:14. | |
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15th February 2022, 09:54 | #45 |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained |
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