[shivasuma]

Indian buyers will be like “so what, I get 1kmpl more and can get the car serviced anywhere in India at minimal cost” (though this is no longer true). My father-in-law is a prime example and he owns a swift��. Man, our thinking has got to change!!

[superguy282]

Originally Posted by ron178

Their current protocol is more suited to developing markets where regulation has not been applied. And that was exactly what India was in 2014 when the #SaferCarsForIndia program started. They would have updated their protocol already, but we still have some 0 and 1-star cars, and the SaferCarsForIndia program doesn't get a lot of funding anyway. They have made 5-star requirements fairly demanding so manufacturers can't simply focus on the frontal collision and bag the fifth star. The jump from 4 to 5 stars is far harder than that from 3 to 4 stars (it has to pass UNECE 95 side impact regulation, have 4-channel ABS and should have a perfect score for seatbelt reminders). But they're planning to update the protocol next year.

Yup I'm well aware, but the fact remains that all cars coming in aren't tested for anything except front collision unless the manufacturer is confident of 5 stars and is sending the car themselves. I feel like the current protocol not being stringent enough shouldn't make it apt for our kind of market where the need of the hour are safer cars due to very wild nature of our roads, infact these type of ratings constantly highlight just how sub-par and lenient manufacturers are when it comes to giving safer cars to India. I don't see how this can be resolved other than government regulation, but that is another sad matter entirely.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by ss212

Could you throw more light on this? I know very little about it. Why is GNCAP not enough?

GNCAP and it's Links with EU as a trade tool is well known in automotive industry. Putting it simply, suppose you are EU/US and you want to sell EU/US made cars in a target market but your cars are too costly for the target market. The target market also manufactures cars and in fact sells more car in EU/US than EU/ US does in target market. Your research tells you that the safety kit and related regulatory requirements is a major cost factors that impacts price of your car. The target market prioritizes fuel economy over safety in regulatory arena. However you do not want to re-engineer / de-engineer your car and want to sell as it is. So, what do you do? You use GNCAP as a tool to lobby the government via public pressure in the name of safety campaigns and public education going to the extent of fear mongering. The higher the safety kit requirements go up, the lower is the cost differential.And that is how balance of trade is managed for the Auto Industry. The first OEMs to acknowledge and take actions as per GNCAP results were Ford and VW. The same approach worked wonderfully in ASEAN since 2012 with the establishment of ASEAN NCAP. India and Africa are the next frontiers.
Now I don't have problem with the safety standards going up, after all it benefits customers. But instead of focussed targetting of safety equipment, Cars get equipped with kit which are not laser focussed for the target market. In their presentation and press comments, I hardly ever see comments on need to use seat belts for safer performance. In the so called, 4 star and 5 star rated cars, the moment you remove seat belt from dummy, the performance will plummet like anything. I will not even talk of seat belt usage in Rear Seats. I can bet more than 50% of Team BHPians do not use seat belts when seated on Rear Seat. The US was very clear in pushing for unbelted crash tests as a part of regulations. Their Driver and Passenger Airbags are much bigger as a result than what is used world wide. Now that is a focussed safety kit usage.
If you look at impact of GNCAP and it's lobbying success, Govt has mandated Driver and Passenger Airbags, ABS, ESC, etc in recent years. These are all kits that have been added. The GOI very recently talked of 6 airbags but not of Pole Impact. So, structurally screwed up cars with Safety equipment is what we are getting. Is it a recipe for disaster? Time will tell.

[Aditya_Bhp]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

The results would be even more fun to watch then.

Maruti's top models can't even register more than 2 stars in the 'easy' GNCAP crash tests. Once GNCAP becomes stricter, wonder what will happen!! GNCAP may have to start negative scoring for the same.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

So, structurally screwed up cars with Safety equipment is what we are getting. Is it a recipe for disaster? Time will tell.

By NCAP's own standards, cars cannot have more kit to compensate for structural issues. This latest test shows the proof whereby the door integrity was compromised. As to seatbelt usage safety, there is always a big X factor in all of this. That is the assumption that these accidents will follow the demonstrated pattern of NCAP tests. That is often not the case. Even if people are belted up, certain accidents may happen that are beyond the realm of testing scenarios. Even a Santro can easily t-bone a mighty Ford Endeavour and emerge relatively unscathed, given specific circumstances .In the highly unregulated Indian traffic context, even more so.
Therefore these tests should be used as an important benchmark of safety design and equipment, but equal rigor must be placed on improving traffic regulation, road layouts, and strictly limiting "stray" movement at least in major cities.

[quattroa4]

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...-test/85710633
Here's the link of the above article . But doesn't come as a shock as we already know that most of Suzuki and Hyundai/Kia models sold here doesn't stand a chance in any NCAP tests around the globe. Tailor fit for transportation purposes only ,all the other accepts are ignored outrightly while making these cars . Actually now I feel proud of TATA and Mahindra for the work they have done on their cars regarding safety while still keeping costs at minimum .

[SPARKled]

No surprise at all, just confirms the fact what we Team BHPians already know. Hope this news brings more sense to the general car buying public, who need to know that there is something more than just 'kitna deti hai' when buying their cars.

[Lowflyer23]

"We are able to sell whatever we produce". It's sad though that the dummies don't have a heart otherwise they would have fared better (Dil se Strong).

It's not surprising that many Maruti owners would ignore this thread but would jump in to rave about the so called low cost of maintenance on other threads. On to the more serious part, it's us who need to bring a change, we as enthusiasts should buy safer cars at least and soon enough some people will follow (not all definitely).

It's sad to see even well informed Team BHPians pick up tin cans and then justify their purchase even though a safer car was available with most of their requirements at a similar price.

[Shashwat.75]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

In India, by just meeting Offset Deformable Barrier test at 64kph and regulatory compliance to basic Side Impact test at 50kph, one can get a 5 star if you have some equipment as standard like seat belt reminders for Front Driver and Co-passenger etc.

Don't think that's the case - because in that case , Hyundai & Kia shouldn't have got such low ratings.

But, if that's indeed true then I have no words for the Korean siblings and atleast in my opinion they would deserve much more criticism than maruti ( mascarading as safe cars but being little or no better than Maruti)

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by Shashwat.75

Don't think that's the case - because in that case , Hyundai & Kia shouldn't have got such low ratings.

But, if that's indeed true then I have no words for the Korean siblings and atleast in my opinion they would deserve much more criticism than maruti ( mascarading as safe cars but being little or no better than Maruti)

This is what was shared to us by one of the J-OEMS ( not Suzuki or Toyota with whom I work extensively). I have seen the scoring methodology and it looked similar to what was shown

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

By NCAP's own standards, cars cannot have more kit to compensate for structural issues. This latest test shows the proof whereby the door integrity was compromised. As to seatbelt usage safety, there is always a big X factor in all of this. That is the assumption that these accidents will follow the demonstrated pattern of NCAP tests. That is often not the case. Even if people are belted up, certain accidents may happen.....

If any of you can, then have a look at MoRTH or consortium data like that of RASSI that they publish and share with Police and their constituents like Bosch, Hyundai, airbag makers like Autoliv, Honda, Suzuki, TATA etc as shown on their website. The data is shocking in its nature as these are accidents that have only been analysed as per methodology on their website. Maximum accidents in India involving Cars that were classified as Fatal or Serious actually involved unbelted inhabitants. So, pls forgive me if I politely ignore NCAP test results hype as the actual serious injury reasons reside elsewhere.

[Rohan265]

Originally Posted by superguy282

The tests conducted (atleast for India) do not provide a comprehensive crash rating and focus only on frontal collision simply because that's what causes relatively more deaths globally. there still is a conderable gap between NCAP safety and real world safety atleast in case of India. Testing agencies like EuroNCAP or even the IIHS do conduct considerably more number of tests which gives much more credibility to their rating, but then again exceptions will always exist. Worst part is, GNCAP scores or any agencies score for that matter assume good/average road conditions, all seatbelts being worn, and the car being in good shape which itself disconnects it from the ground reality here.

I agree completely. I would say that the scenarios tested in an NCAP test are the exceptions when it comes to India. I personally remember only a handful of crashes in which the vehicle was involved in a crash similar to an NCAP crash test. In our country, cars are more likely to collide with trucks, buses, and two-wheelers, than other cars. Even when a car hits a pole or tree sideways, the car usually is in a partial rollover. The current NCAP tests don't cover these scenarios. Even the proposed Bharat NCAP won't be of much help if we just copy the tests from the EU/US. We need tests designed using our own crash data.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

The US was very clear in pushing for unbelted crash tests as a part of regulations. Their Driver and Passenger Airbags are much bigger as a result than what is used worldwide. Now that is a focussed safety kit usage.

I agree with you that tests and safety equipment should be focussed. However, crash tests and safety systems should be focused on crash data of the local market/country. Not on the driver/occupant behavior in the market. I believe that the US continued with the unbelted crash tests because they were facing resistance from a lobby in the 80s/90s that was against wearing seat belts. These tests will most likely be phased out as their belt usage rates increase. Also, the unbelted crash test is conducted at a much slower speed than the belted tests. Otherwise, most vehicles would fail the test. Coming to airbags..the airbags in the US are also more powerful than their global counterparts. An unbelted occupant impacting a large and powerful airbag has a high chance of sustaining severe internal injuries even if the airbag somehow manages to prevent a forward movement of the occupant.

[klgiridhar]

I am not surprised by the poor rating of Swift.

On a side note, it is good that these testing agencies are giving out whatever assessments they have done on each vehicle and how it fared in each one of them. In addition, they have given out detailed testing protocols followed. Some are much more stringent than others. At least, there is transparency involved here as the results are put out in the public domain.

Now, we often hear from the big two manufacturers that they pass all the Indian safety norms. And from whatever info is present online, our own testing agency BNVSAP started in 2019, the same year we had an amendment to our motor vehicles act. What's startling is neither does BNVSAP has an official website, nor the detailed testing methods, protocols and results are made available in the public domain. What is stopping them from giving us a detailed report of the assessment done on each vehicle? It will at the end of the day, benefit the end customer buying a product to make an informed decision as well as make the overall assessment process more transparent. Yes, some info like the frontal offset test was conducted at 56kmph (citing lower average speeds on Indian roads) instead of 64kmph were given out but not the results of how each car fared in the tests. If anyone has more info/link on BNVSAP and their testing methods as well as results, do share it with us. The info on the various labs used for testing can be found on NATRIP website.

I hope, we will soon start getting star ratings of the cars assessed, like how we get on electrical appliances right now.

[matizcrazy]

Why only blame the ' general car buying public' ?
I am sure many 'experts' who routinely condemn certain automakers for not offering this or that, are proud owners of Swifts, Wagon Rs or Balenos.

[Carma2017]

BNVSAP as of today only exists on papers. There is nothing concrete on the table. The Indian government's priority is to reduce fuel import bills. Hence a big focus is on EVs and improvements in Fuel Economy.

I read in this thread somewhere that GNCAP looks beyond Equipment being added. It's true that GNCAP looks at weld ruptures and intrusion data as well, but there are specific points for equipment also like Seat Belt reminders etc.

What surprises me is that GNCAP claims credit ( directly or indirectly) for introduction of more severe norms than what was there in 2014. But the facts are that GOI notifications had already been issued when GNCAP did their media event showing almost all cars in India are unsafe and we would all die if we suffered accidents in such cars. The regulations are not implemented immediately after a notification. There is always a time period given for compliance for new cars and for existing cars with a further phase lag. Case in point being BS VI where 3-4 years were given to manufactures for compliance.