[Hayek]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

This guy from car and bike almost sounds like a Kia employee who is giving an explanation.

Found Sidharth Vinayak Patankar’s comments disgusting - would have used a much stronger word for him but for forum rules.

I can understand it when a car is designed ground up for emerging markets and is therefore built to a cost. But when people redesign a car sold elsewhere to be less safe, putting customer’s lives at risk - and do not disclose that fact, that amounts to fraud. So I would certainly state that Kia and Hyundai are guilty of recklessly endangering the lives of their customers.

As for Suzuki, anyone who buys one of their products is doing so knowing fully well that their products are death traps - ok if you are upgrading from a scooter but unacceptable otherwise. So at least one has to give them the limited credit that there is no fraud here - it is merely Caveat Emptor (which I would accept as a libertarian).

Didn’t think I would be so bugged with this - but I genuinely thought the Seltos with 6 air bags would be a safe car - strongly recommended the GT Series top end to a friend on that basis. But an unstable body shell has no place in any car, much less something which advertises itself as safe.

Agree fully that the GNCAP ratings for all cars should be front and center in our official reviews. India is unfortunately a very unequal country - so I can understand why the government is reluctant to lay out crash test requirements that the affluent may expect, but which would make cars more expensive and cost more lives through fewer people upgrading from scooters than they save. But perhaps they could come out with a regulation that any car which talks of safety in its advertising must be independently crash tested and make detailed ratings public.

[ShivrajG]

Just for a smile!
My Brute was very happy in 2019 no competition and it was selling like cake , then comes the KIA Seltos with all the fanfare and hoola boolah.

It took away the charm from each and every CSUV in the segment.

Brute was unhappy and whenever it saw a glittering image of the Seltos DRL's in the rear view mirror it used to grunt.

Today Brute is happy again! Brute has a 5 Star sticker on the back!

Brute: Tata Nexon XZ Diesel 2019
Safety Standards
Brute : 1
Seltos : 0

PS: No offense to Seltos owners its a nice looking car!

[AZT]

Originally Posted by GTO

As if the crash test rating wasn't bad enough, Maruti's response is even worse
Hi,

PFB Maruti Suzuki India Limited statement on GNCAP ratings. Request to kindly use the same in your story.

"Safety is a critical issue and is therefore closely regulated by governments around the world as they are responsible for the safety of the people in their countries. It cannot be left to the opinion of any self proclaimed party. The Government of India has recently increased the stringency of car crash test standards and made them identical to European standards. All products of the company are fully compliant with these global standards and duly tested and certified by the Government of India. "

These statements are prepared by the PR department and this comes across as an amateurish response. If I were them I would have gone with something like
"While we respect the GNCAP ratings, we assure our patrons that all our vehicles are in line with the Govt of India norms. We understand we need to do better and while there is a fine line between keeping our cars cost efficient and adding safety features, we assure you we will do better going ahead.

That's all they needed to say - we assure you we will do better going ahead. For me what's really sad is not the Seltos rating, but the S Presso one. Anyone with a sub 5 lakh budget is recommended an Alto / S Presso and just by sheer volume, these cars being sold the highest also makes it more probable that they will be in more accidents compared to a Seltos.

In 2018 alone India reported 151,000 fatalities due to road accidents. This is 2018 data and the numbers have probably gone up. Also, these numbers are just the deaths, imagine how many more would have been injured or lost an arm or a leg and permanently disabled.

[OSH]

Originally Posted by arjab

The Indica VISTA or the "Tata X-1" platform as it was known internally was extremely well engineered and robust.

Yes. A lot of people are unaware of the fact that even the Tata Indica Vista was crash tested by the AseanNCAP in 2014. It was an export model which was picked up AFAIK.

http://youtu.be/xJlcnEQLbQs

[Latheesh]

Have a look at this CEAT secura drive ad featuring dummy Amir Khan. He is concerned about his life and decided to sit inside the car only because it has secura drive tires. But dummy bhai, you forgot to check which car it is!!
Test car is a Kia Seltos

https://youtu.be/4V9M1zaRfak

[giri1.8]

This is such an disappointment for someone shopping in the 15+L segment, frankly after dealing with a Desi car maker, I am just running out of options in this segment right now(looking to upgrade for my dad's Swift).

Would be very easy for anyone to say life matters more than reliability and issues, so Desi brands are the way to go, but I had to take my scooter(significantly riskier) when my old car was at their A.S.S for a week (plus at lease once a month visits) this and all the stress related to dealing with them made me go ahead with the Ford Figo. One less star than my previous ride, HUGE loss in depreciation, but I sleep better at night knowing I can concentrate on my business rather than A.S.S guys.

Hope Mahindra Ford JV goes well, that way we could get the best of both worlds.

[sou_3749]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Dearest Sou_3749,
Apologies if you felt hurt, please forgive. And don't address me as Sir, I'm not worthy of that stuff and I feel it's derogatory that we have to call others Sir!

No offence taken. Let's stick to the point and have a healthy discussion. These occasional emotional outbursts are ok.

At the end we might agree that in India cost takes precedence over safety. Why are we getting inferior product is not because of manufacturers, but due to the fact that govt makes the lion's share out of the ex-showroom cost (43%). We can keep on cursing OEMs for not providing products at par with international standard, but it's the govt who deserves the bashing. You can only see Maruti/Hyundai making profits, but they are the ones who revolutionize Indian car scene.

(just my opinion).

Does Kia need to improve on safety front - hell yes
Do all cars in KIA/Hyundai/Maruti deserve bashing - I won't (not guilty unless proved)
Is seltos a bad car - No way (for me 3* is still respectable)

I am extremely happy that Tata/Mahindra (my fav Nexon) have taken the safety aspect to another level, but I don't see myself buying one until they match the biggies in other departments.

[ZenMaster]

The discussion on the thread seems to veering off frequently from people discussing about the crash test rating to a few members who are fanboys of certain companies bashing each other and certain others bashing the Mods as if there is some conspiracy going on b/w TeamBHP and Korean Manufacturers.

There is absolutely no doubt that Crash Test ratings and safety report should be added/updated in the Official Reviews and I'm sure the Mods have heard it and will do what's needed to update the Reviews and even maybe rework their review methodology and update certain terms.
Everyone seems to have a problem with the term "Build quality" in the review. I request the mods and reviewers to use separate points for each category under what normal people think of when considering "QUALITY" in general.

Ex: Trim & Material quality, Fit and Finish, outer panel quality and structural integrity etc. so that people don't get confused by a blanket term like "Build quality"

To people saying they feel cheated by the company : you have every right to feel cheated and this attitute by manufacturers of considering us second class buyers is unacceptable. If anyone has the right to make noise its you and you guys should make your voice heard not just on this forum but in social media and any other forums as well.

To members saying they felt cheated by the Forum/Mods:
Consider reading the reviews only after Crash testing is done by G-NCAP. Because as far as I know Team-BHP doesn't have a crash test facitlity of its own. They can only attest to what they touch and feel and observe. But yes, they should update Crash Test ratings once they are revealed and maybe modify their opinion afterwards.

And I'm sure most of us, including me, who preach about safety would probably be doing so while driving a Maruti Suzuki TinCan (TM) because we are not ready to deal with service woes and want a trouble free experience and better resale value to make the most of that Vehicle Loan.

If there's anybody to blame apart from these Companies, it us the consumers. As long as we carry forward our nonchalant attitude to safety in general and VFM over everything attitute and our innate tendency to "showoff on a budget" to our car purchases, they take advantage of us and build products that fit our criteria & take us for a ride selling subpar products with extra chrome garnish and features.

[Hemi6.2]

I think Hyundai is more villainous than Maruti.
The point being that if you buy a Maruti you know that you are buying the 'lightly' built vehicle whereas everyone assumed that Hyundais would atleast perform respectably in the crash tests.

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by Pigcee

I managed to get a reply from car& bike!

The "It's at least got 3 stars" is such a bad argument, I've also seen it mentioned here by someone. This is not a "test" where you pass and fail and 3/5 is seen as 60% or "adequate" safety. This is the chart of adult occupant safety -



The safety on offer for the driver mostly ranges from "marginal" to "weak". An all round "adequate" safety gets you 5/5 stars. A 4 star VW Polo still has only "marginal" safety for the thighs. 3/5 stars is NOT ADEQUATE SAFETY! This rating system is not like the grades you get at school where 5/5 is excellent and 3/5 is "good" or "above average".

The "Bodyshell integrity: UNSTABLE" should also be plastered everywhere.

[koushikroy1989]

Just cancelled my booking of gtx seltos. What a great timing of this crash report. I was almost towards the week of receiving the car. Hope they will refund the money now.

But at the same time, confused now thinking about what would be car at this 20l budget. :(

Please help guyss!!!!

[aniyo]

Here is my take.
1. Government can bring in law for crash test, but this will be opposed by Maruti and officials will make their cut and stall the crash test norms.
2. Government will push the crash test norms and this will lead to increase in car prices, which govt can ill-afford with political consequence.
3. Government can offer rebate on tax to cars with better safety rating but then cars are seen as a cash cow after fuel and alcohol for revenue. So this will not happen

Best way is tax high, let the companies give sub-standard cars to Indians. Public doesn't care as long as they are able to show-off.
This is Win-Win-Win (actually loss) for Government-OEM-Public

Best we can do is take informed decision ourselves help our near and dear one do the same and resign to fate, we are a country that has far more important priorities like Reha, SSR, Bigboss, why one not-so-good-driver is not getting married etc etc.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

If there's anybody to blame apart from these Companies, it us the consumers. As long as we carry forward our nonchalant attitude to safety in general and VFM over everything attitute and our innate tendency to "showoff on a budget" to our car purchases, they take advantage of us and build products that fit our criteria & take us for a ride selling subpar products with extra chrome garnish and features.

Bang on, consumers and regulations have played a major role here. What do consumer need?

Good A.S.S
Long list of features
Good looks
Efficiency

Also important to note that primary objective of all companies is to make money and keep investors happy. Yes, there are fancy vision/mission but all holds no value unless they make money. As long as we have weak regulations and majority of customers don't demand, companies will continue to encash. Are they technically right? Yes they are but not ethical!

Another observation:
Everyone of us cornered Renault on C(K)aptur fiasco. Seltos is exactly the same, as elsewhere they are built on Kona platform. While KIA did not claim about 5 star ratings, Seltos case seem very similar to Renault C(K)aptur.

[nagr22]

Originally Posted by Pigcee

I managed to get a reply from car& bike!

From the reply it is kind of clear to me who is paying his salary this month! How can he claim 3/5 stars is enough? It is like saying, "3 stars sir! You will only lose your legs in an accident. At least your life is safe na?"

I am expecting more and more such Kia sponsored media influencers supporting Kia with such statements and articles in the coming days. Already Maruti is claiming GNCAP is a monopoly so we shouldn't believe them. I am waiting to see how much further down Kia will go when they come up with their official response.

Seriously guys! This is downright pathetic on part of manufacturers! I can digest if they make unsafe cars to every everyone irrespective of where they are sold. Case in point is Suzuki - worldwide they are considered tincans and are generally perceived as less safe. Heck I would even forgive an A segment car scoring 0 because for a buyer who can only afford a Kwid or an SPresso, alternative is to use a two wheeler which is much more unsafe. This kind of 'Just pass' 3 star rating performance (8.03/16 when you need >8 to get a 3 star) from a C segment car and that too ONLY FOR INDIANS is downright atrocious! It's not like we are paying less than consumers of other countries. Then why does our lives matter less? Indian lives matter too right?

Being members of this reputed forum, I want us to do something about this. Earlier some of our forum members had fought a case for one nation one road tax. Can we file a PIL (sorry if that's not right. I don't know the legal name) petition to mandate minimum safety ratings for cars in India? If funds are needed for that cause, let us start a fundraiser and I am willing to contribute. I seriously want @mods to consider this. Otherwise every year GNCAP releases their star ratings and we all rant for a few days and then we go on and even recommend those cars to others. If we don't do anything now, I bet we all will rant again the next time GNCAP releases its test results.

If we are not going to do anything about this, let's close the thread and move on to discuss something useful. Let's not make this forum like Facebook or Twitter by having rants and useless discussions

[Breathe2drive]

Disappointing to say the least. A 2 million car selling like hotcakes since its inception !!! Was looking forward to the 7 seater version of Creta, but now it's out of question since less than half priced Ertiga has same safety rating of 3 stars. Much proud of our Indian manufacturers Tata and Mahindra for prioritizing safety. Seems like the Korean cousins are taking us for a ride. It's high time we should them pay them back by not paying them.