[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I really would like to see an end to the increasing number of comments like this. Toyotas are not safe; Hondas are not safe. The truth is cars are not safe and drivers are even less safe.

Sorry, nothing personal, not against you: it has been bugging me for a while. I hope you won't mind me picking your post to make this point.

Agreed. Its the driver who makes the mistake.

But all said and done, lets assume a hypothetical situation where we have two similar drivers having an accident in exactly the same way in two separate instances. Dont you think chances of survival of the driver in a better built (comparatively safer) car is more than the one driving a flimsy car?

Accidents never happen purposely right? Its always a mistake. And I feel cars should be built to counter this mistake of humans. Performance and fuel efficiency is secondary.

P.S.: Please dont take this as brand bashing. I myself own an Innova and I love it.

[aadithsince1980]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

A terrible accidents took place last evening in our town, uphill. One little girl and three adults, all of them who were in front seats died.

This is what happens if you cannot analyze your speed in a turn. this Sumo over shoot the turn and nose dived.

Attachment 931320

Which place exactly is this? Looks like somewhere down Kalhatti Ghats? Am from Ooty so was just wondering

[Suess]

Sorry couldn't find a international accident pics post, so posting here. Moderators pl, move the post if we have proper hanger for this.

Irrer Crash: LKW kippt aus Kurve in Gegenverkehr - Yahoo!

here is a spectacular video recording from Russia! no lesser than hollywood movie! nobody hurt so enjoy!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Agreed, no point in picking on a Honda or a Toyota.
That said; cars are not safe, but a better engineered car (for safety) can reduce the impact of the driver errors/misjudgment to an extent. After all, safety features are there for a reason. I am sure you have considered those while deciding on your Polo.

If I hit a solid steel truck at 80kph, I do not expect my Polo to do any more for me than an M800 would. I don't think anyone should expect that of any car. This thread is here as a grim reminder of this.

Not really. A Honda City sold in Australia has 5-star ANCAP rating. Just that in our case, safety features are not considered in the VFM parameters, and manufacturers reduce cost on that very aspect.

Just for comparison – a Vento sold in Malaysia (as Polo Sedan) have 4 airbags, ABS w EBD, 3-point seat belts for all 3 passengers in the rear. And it’s made in India, but not sold in India!

Cultural and human contradictions. Safety is not considered important here, and the marketing people know that, but buyers also think, "If I spent that much money then this car must be indestructible."

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Agreed. Its the driver who makes the mistake.

But all said and done, lets assume a hypothetical situation where we have two similar drivers having an accident in exactly the same way in two separate instances. Dont you think chances of survival of the driver in a better built (comparatively safer) car is more than the one driving a flimsy car?

Accidents never happen purposely right? Its always a mistake. And I feel cars should be built to counter this mistake of humans. Performance and fuel efficiency is secondary.

P.S.: Please dont take this as brand bashing. I myself own an Innova and I love it.

I think that some of the expectations are reasonable, and some are not. There are all to many accident situations which no car and no driver/passenger could survive.

If you add bike to my M800/Polo comparison, the M800 (assuming wearing of seatbelts etc) is vastly safer than the bike, but the Polo is probably only a small degree safer (if at all) than the M800.

With respect to you and other good-driver Innova members, who must be even more aware than I am of the kind of hands so often on the Innova wheel, why is always Innovas, and not Corolas, featuring in this thread? Does that say something about Toyota? Or does it say something about people?

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by aadithsince1980

Which place exactly is this? Looks like somewhere down Kalhatti Ghats? Am from Ooty so was just wondering

its mount abu, rajasthan.

[aadithsince1980]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

its mount abu, rajasthan.

Oh ok! Since your handle reads "Queen Of Hills" (The Nilgiris is called the queen of hill stations) I was assuming that you were from Ooty and this happened somewhere near Ooty.

[akshay380]

On ORR 3-4 days back. The driver was very lucky to escape with minor cuts. The truck as expected was not having any crash bars installed.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by akshay380

On ORR 3-4 days back. The driver was very lucky to escape with minor cuts. The truck as expected was not having any crash bars installed.

Hey dude, on a side note , are u back on your feet and on the road again? Congratulations!!

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

With respect to you and other good-driver Innova members, who must be even more aware than I am of the kind of hands so often on the Innova wheel, why is always Innovas, and not Corolas, featuring in this thread? Does that say something about Toyota? Or does it say something about people?

There are much more tourist taxi Innovas than corollas and many of these does duty on our dreaded highways.

Secondly, many of these Innovas are the G variants without ABS and an Innova without ABS is a deathtrap. I feel the puny tyres on such a huge vehicle and over assisted brakes are the reason. No offence to any owners, but I have witnessed this on multiple occasions. An Innova without ABS does not stop in time...

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Though the links shed light to EBD, I am still not clear as I get the impression that EBD implies individual wheel brakeforce control, after reading all that stuff.

And what are the cars that come with less than 4-channel ABS? Is 4-channel ABS the same as a car with ABS and EBD?

I do not know how to make it any simpler but I shall try once again.

1) 4 channel ABS is what it means by individual wheel control of all wheels during impeding lock up during braking in four wheeled vehicles.

2) EBD can make do with just 2 channels which means front and rear separately. It also may make use of more than 2 channels but as per actual requirements of the designer just two channels will do front to back.

3)A car with ABS may be 2, 3, 4 channel or more in case of multi axle trucks. A car with ABS does not imply that it has EBD. The Cruze has one of the shortest braking distance among cars manufactured here but has the worst of ABS systems installed in any vehicle in India.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I actually don't care if owners get offended: we are not branding anybody by their cars, only by their driving, whether it's an Alto or an Innova.

Taxi drivers... yes. That's my point: it's the peole, not the vehicles.

An Innova without ABS does not stop in time...

Any vehicle stops in time if it is driven safely. It's best we have all the safety features we can get for those times when it is someone else's fault, but all accidents are caused by drivers.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

I feel the puny tyres on such a huge vehicle and over assisted brakes are the reason. No offence to any owners, but I have witnessed this on multiple occasions. An Innova without ABS does not stop in time...

ABS doesn't reduce braking distance! It simply allows you to continue to steer when braking hard. Trust me! It doesn't always help.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

That's my point: it's the peole, not the vehicles.

Yes, vehicles have little role to play, and its the driver's responsibility to know his own and the vehicle's safe limits.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Any vehicle stops in time if it is driven safely. It's best we have all the safety features we can get for those times when it is someone else's fault, but all accidents are caused by drivers.

To add to that, not just driven safely but also maintained. Most drivers don't bother about tyre condition, air pressure and brake systems. For most commercial vehicles, tryes are changed when there is NO tread left and people rarely get the brake discs changed, which tend to lose shape with time/kms.

[M5_fan]

Originally Posted by SLK

ABS doesn't reduce braking distance! It simply allows you to continue to steer when braking hard. Trust me! It doesn't always help.
s.

ABS does reduce stopping distance in case of panic braking. The normal brakes lock the tires and hence the car skids on the road, while in abs there is no skidding and hence stopping distance reduces. This is specially important when the road surface is slick like in the case of rains.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by M5_fan

ABS does reduce stopping distance in case of panic braking. The normal brakes lock the tires and hence the car skids on the road, while in abs there is no skidding and hence stopping distance reduces. This is specially important when the road surface is slick like in the case of rains.

Theoretically yes! but practical difference is only on slippery surfaces. Point is ABS won't save big bang accidents! unless it's due to lack of steer-ability.

[Thad E Ginathom]

The ABS how/what/why/why-not discussion is very much covered elsewhere. If we branch off into it here, the mods will rightly prune!