Team-BHP - Accidents in India

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jupizire (Post 5782389)

Many times I see 2 wheelers jump the red signal, but then they would be going at slow pace after crossing the signal. If one really jumps a red signal, then at least do justice to it by going fast. Else, what's the use of disobeying traffic rules?

We also have people who wait for the traffic light to turn green, start their bike at 7/8, rev it up at 4/5, shift into first gear at 3, engage the clutch at 2 and drive off at 1 with one thumb on the horn and a firm grip on the throttle. Once they've crossed the opposing signal, their signal adventure is over and they start to hog the lane, flaunting 'Yes, it's my dad's road' on their rear mudguards. These are the common species on the roads of India, the 'signal racers'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphere (Post 5782682)

My point is licenses should be suspended after a certain age, (everyone ages differently, they need independence, medical checks every 2 years - all understood, but these don't work in India because everything can be bought).

Well, I hear your perspective, you have highlighted the fact that 'everything can be bought'. How will suspending a license even help in this case? It wont work just like other things you disregarded.

Also, on the age part, if you say senior citizens are a threat on the road - the same can be said about the younger generation who are high on adrenaline especially when they have vehicles with power which they can exploit. So, that doesn't leave us with a very small age group who should drive.

And if we take out senior citizens, we wouldn't really have matured and experienced drivers on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphere (Post 5782524)

You know I read your post while leaving office and during my drive home, I was thinking about how will I reply to your post with a long paragraph on 'how this is a public forum and I put out my point of view, how there is a better way to call my opinions skewed etc etc.'

Sphere, I would love to chat further with you, but we are offtopic, and should not do it here.

Just a couple of points, though. Do you know that if you were driving in my mother country, you would have to be quite well off to even afford the insurance? Why, because it is priced by the driver, and the rates are informed by hard statistics analysed by actuaries and underwriters. I am not talking about your personal skills: this pricing is certainly unfair on those youngsters who took their lessons seriously and drive well, albeit with lesser experience. But the pricing is based on hard statistics, not bias. Young/inexperienced drivers are the most dangerous (and, in GB, have the highest insurance bills. And yes, it starts to rise again for elders.

The ease of getting an Indian driving licence is well discussed elsewhere on the forum. And will continue to be, as, sadly, we don't see any changes likely. I too took an Indian driving test: one of easiest 2 minutes of driving I have ever done!

Please note that I didn't question your right to express your opinion: equally, you should not question the right to reply.

Thank you for the rest of your post (and for not calling me Grandad lol: ). Drive safe: I'll try to do so too :)

Talking about age and licencing. I used to hold an airline pilots licence till internationally mandated age of 65. However one can hold a non commercial pilots licence till he is medically certified fit once every year. I know of pilots holding valid licence and flying till age of 80.
I lost interest in renewing the licence after 70 as there was no opportunity to get hold of an airplane.

I am now nearing 79 and still drive regularly.
Matter of fact this winter drove bom kolkata back via varanasi over a period of 8 driving days. Me being the only one driving. My wife who also holds valid licence accompanied me. But she hates highway driving. Yes once upon a time done bom blr or alld kolkata nonstop, but now stay less than 500kms per day.

Except to do bom nnp nonstop last year. But it was boring!!

What I don't do now is drive alone other than really short distance like 2kms. And I undergo 6 monthly medical checkups as I have got used to it since age of 30 odd years.

Point I want to make is that rules should be tightened to make sure of medical fitness annually after latest say 75 years of age. Of course you can bribe your way.

But then again one does not lose hope that our citizens will improve and abiding by the law will become the normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphere (Post 5782524)

Public forum, Yes. But there are certain long timers who have a reputation for posting quality content on this forum and that in itself is a treasure.

I don't post often but I read, everyday. To me, Thad's posts are hands down the best ones on this forum. There have been instances where I pick his profile and read only his posts. I am not just his fan, he is a Guru to most of us, me included.

So, when you are behind the keyboard and a screen, it doesn't mean you can leave certain manners behind. This is a highly professional and respectable forum with highly qualified people.

Back to the topic - Your opinion on age seems illogical to me. Age is just a number and the criteria to drive should be based on the medical condition of the person. In that case, it's not just about driving, there are multiple other jobs and activities which require so much finesse and people of all ages do them. With your logic, senior people beyond an age should sit at home and do nothing ? Come on mate, get a life.

We all get mature and experienced and wiser with age. The posts by Thad and others are a testimony to that.

Come back after 50 years when you are nearly that age and introspect. Most of us including myself may not be alive, but this Forum and it's contents will be. Make sure you come back to this thread and find out what has changed - within you.

PS: My dad is 72 and he still drives. He is fit to drive - physically and mentally. He is not a threat just because of his age.

- Param, 40

I'm 38. Bash me in private or public, but I'm in favour of age related ban, even though I wouldn't ask to keep age limit at 70 specifically, I'll let an expert decide a more appropriate one, upper or lower.

It may be 60, or it may be 90, I'm not saying which.

Who can deny a 90 year old ought to retire from a lot of things except mild yoga, no offence meant?

The reason is, we don't legally allow the young to drive and ride. Why? Because its proven than road riding requires skills that not everyone younger can master.

Not even a proven track racer gets a license if he/she's below the age.

We have 14 year olds who didn't crash ever, but on the road, a rule is a rule. A public road is a government property.

Then, why should the extremely old people be allowed when its medically proven their risk of cardiac arrest or sudden heart attack, is significantly higher?

Don't get me wrong, I love old people. But in case of traffic rules, I'd better be objective than subjective.

@Jereon's data is very insightful, but it quotes just every accident, not a percentage from each age group. Lies, damned lies and statistics is how I call it.

People between 25 and 34 could have accounted for most accidents, because that might very well be the age group with maximum number of drivers.

Old people obviously drive in lesser total numbers, their accidents will be lower too.

The correct question is, what is the percentage of people who face an accident within an age group?

At least, we should have a limited low speed vehicle license, something that can't cross 40 kmph? or a special vehicle that bonds better with the rider?

Gaps are there, but the policyon this can't be a matter of 1 paragraph or 1 page for that matter. It could be studied extensively.

My few cents.

i. I may be exaggerating a bit, but we can find hundreds of accidents caused by underaged teens, thousands caused by young adults and adults on this very thread. I must add that most of these accidents were caused by their negligence, or under the influence of alcohol, or they were just plain stupid in most of the cases. I can only see very few accidents caused by senior citizens.

ii. As long as one is of sound health (mentally and physically) and their reflexes are good enough to adjust to the unpredictable traffic, I don't see any problem with them driving/riding. At the same time, it's completely up to the individuals. My father is 74 and refuses to go anywhere near the driving seat and he has been like that since attaining the age of 65, I believe. He is not comfortable driving, and I respect his decision.

iii. And most importantly, this thread has discussed each case in detail, so we can take inputs and make ourselves better drivers/riders. In that respect, this thread is a gold mine (albeit at the expense of someone else's misery, unfortunately). At the end of the day, we are human beings, and we may have erred many times, and may have been spared by fate / luck / divine intervention / whatever you want to call it. These accidents, the way they happened, and the consequences are in front of us to understand what could have happened to us, if we weren't lucky/were not saved by divine intervention etc. Let's keep learning to become better drivers/riders.

- Peace. techsvy, 40.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samarth 619 (Post 5782860)

@Jereon's data is very insightful, but it quotes just every accident, not a percentage from each age group. Lies, damned lies and statistics is how I call it.
People between 25 and 34 could have accounted for most accidents, because that might very well be the age group with maximum number of drivers.
Old people obviously drive in lesser total numbers, their accidents will be lower too.

The correct question is, what is the percentage of people who face an accident within an age group?
.

I think the table provided in the article I quoted is pretty comprehensive. Showing absolute and percentages values.

Jeroen

Witnessed an accident two days ago. This was on the service road from Babusaplaya to Horamavu. Looks like an overtake gone wrong, the two-wheeler went straight into the car. No one seems to be injured, at least seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfMZIjEFSPo

The bigger problem I see these days is the way people drive on the service roads adjacent to the ring road. The service road is two-way but most drivers/riders/ drive/ride as if the road is one-way. After exiting the ring road, vehicles continue to drive on the right side instead of the left side. There is absolutely no hesitation to drive on the wrong side at high speed. This is completely normalized in some sections, for instance around Prestige Jindal City where the traffic is completely right-handed. Feels weird driving there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom (Post 5782841)

Sphere, I would love to chat further with you, but we are offtopic, and should not do it here.

Please note that I didn't question your right to express your opinion: equally, you should not question the right to reply.

Agree with you, I rest my case. Hope to read some of your "quality" posts in the future as mentioned by others on this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom (Post 5782841)

Thank you for the rest of your post (and for not calling me Grandad lol: ). Drive safe: I'll try to do so too :)

Thank you sir, (and grandad is not a bad thing to call someone, my dad is waiting to be called a grandad, and my grandad was the happiest when I called him grandad for the first time :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by denzdm (Post 5782838)

Well, if you see, older people are the most inclined to following rules, then comes the middle aged followed by the youth and finally teenagers.

Teenagers<Youth<Middle Age<Elderly

So my point is if there is an age limit, many people will just not take any vehicle (2/4 wheeler) out by themselves. Looking at my grandad and many other older people in the society, they follow rules and national duty (voting, paying taxes etc.) better than youngsters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by para_7k (Post 5782853)

Public forum, Yes. But there are certain long timers who have a reputation for posting quality content on this forum and that in itself is a treasure.

So, when you are behind the keyboard and a screen, it doesn't mean you can leave certain manners behind. This is a highly professional and respectable forum with highly qualified people.

I am not an internet bully or troll sir, and I definitely did not act or behave mannerlessly with anyone on the forum, and Thad can vouch for that. I agree there are many professional and respectable people on the forum, no doubt about that.

I had my point of view and I put it out, some people agree to me and some don't. It was a topic of debate, not a topic for a fight or accusations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by para_7k (Post 5782853)

Come back after 50 years when you are nearly that age and introspect. Most of us including myself may not be alive, but this Forum and it's contents will be. Make sure you come back to this thread and find out what has changed - within you.

Everyone has a different point of view, I shared mine, you shared yours. POV's change with time, mine might too. I may realize if I'm right or wrong later in my life.

My last post on this topic, no more debates please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neon115 (Post 5782550)

I think you are getting confusing AEB with something different.
This is: AEB.

It detects presence of an obstacle and applies break automatically. It even works at slow speeds in bumper to bumper traffic situations.

Other than some comfort and safety related differences, Adaptive Cruise Control and Automatic Emergency Braking are the same thing. Neither of them are designed to take over the vehicle from an actively controlling driver. Flooring the accelerator pedal overrides AEB and ACC. Nothing AEB could have done differently in this particular scenario.