Team-BHP - Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by epiccross (Post 5467571)

What does it have to do with potholes?

Well that's the story that NHAI and Rishabh Pant are sticking to now. They claim that they checked all speed cameras through the road and this car was never overspeeding.

With this version, everything else is only speculation and conspiracy theories, which all of us are free to make.

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Originally Posted by epiccross (Post 5467571)

There are some cases where of course, even professional drivers may falter. But then again, I have no reasons to presume that Pant would do any better, as he's no sedate/defensive driver, evidently.

There is nothing called a professional driver, other than track drivers, who train and specialize in that. Very heavy vehicle drivers are also well trained, but road cars?

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Originally Posted by epiccross (Post 5467571)

People who can't afford the luxury of a chauffer (I am one of those) should be extra careful and avoid such adventurous,

Over the last 36 years of my family owning cars, we've had 4 accidents where the cars had to immediately go to a workshop. One was when an auto came wrong side and hit our car (bending the side fender) when my dad was driving. The other 3 where our car rear-ended the next or diagonally next vehicle was when hired drivers were at wheel (they did only 20% of the driving that our family does).

We've had drivers for the past 25 years but always had to do back-seat driving, warning drivers of speed, lane, distance, oncoming traffic. So I don't believe there really is something called 'Professional Drivers', there can be good drivers for hire, but most of them are also just safe and steady drivers, they do not have the technical understanding or experience of handling/ speed/ capabilities and limits of a car to be called a 'professional'.

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ (Post 5467605)

I think we need to rephrase "professional drivers" to "safe drivers". I am not sure who are these "professional drivers" when it comes to a car or smaller vehicles, unlike you have those real professional drivers where you need niche skills like loco pilots and those kind of.

I would rely on a "safe driver" rather than a so called "professional" driver for cars. Just because they do driving as a profession does not qualify them as a safe driver, IMHO.

Exactly!

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Originally Posted by Venkatesh (Post 5465988)

Cricketer Rishabh Pant met with an accident on Delhi-Dehradun highway near Roorkee border, car catches fire.

Attachment 2397060

There should be a portal for the 'persons of eminence' to register their road movement and the authorities should endorse their movement after authorizing a minimum of 3 cordon vehicles of silent/non-flasher pilot car, a lead car and additional trailing vans for their period of trip. They may be allowed to self drive and take their own precautions should they move between the odd hours as usually preferred by the persons of eminence for their well being and not causing traffic chaos during their commute. This portal should be monitored for self-proclaimed VIPs unlawfully availing such facilities. Simultaneously, a seizure of flasher/hooter loaded vehicles all local MLA's and so-called illiterate Presidents/Heads of organizations should be undertaken at national level to make them aware of their menace in the society.

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Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts (Post 5466173)

He was driving a GLE43 AMG Coupe.

He was infact in one of the safest V6 cars in India he could buy at the time of his purchase. The car is at present not on sale. It offered more than sufficient safety features. Mercedes Benz should go after recovering the dashcam/vehicle telematics data or declare their inability to recover it.

https://www.indiatoday.in/auto/lates...502-2022-12-30

The media advisory (or the delayed one) does deserve some respect, however the citizen journalism speaks far more clearly for the greater good than just the individual as seen in the following video (it doesn't carry english subtitles):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjZ6Q9P-sg
Do notice how the spot had been repaired. It is also confirmed by the authorities that the accident damaged the stretch of the road :Frustrati and it had to be repaired just in time to allow for the traffic expected on the new year eve and afterwards. Yet, the small stretch of the earthen mound is still there welcoming possibly another catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by Old_Salt (Post 5466701)

I have tried to search online but could not get any details whether a drug and alcohol test of Mr Pant was conducted soon after the incident.
Any information on that?

He was involved in a crash due to misalignment of the road. You should ask what actions were taken on the officiating MoRTH staff approving the highway connecting the national capital to the state capital and the state govt officials who had conducted safety audits a month ago on the roads in the state. Moreover, BCCI/ICC has far more rigorous policies in place and stringent, sensitive testing than any govt approved body could have performed on the spot for detecting anything obviously unlawful on a cricketer who is expecting a major series in the forthcoming year. Players know that, whether they are on the field or off. Would someone be under the influence while on the move to visit their family?

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Originally Posted by epiccross (Post 5467683)

Wow. Yes exactly, I find this incredibly hard to believe, given the footage + state of the guard rails.

Also, NHAI funnily enough contradicts this version:

My guess is, since it's a celeb like him, he must have been bailed out by the authorities.

Or surely NHAI has to be lying, which is tenfolds worse and should be held accountable!

A simple look at the imagery proves why a three lane highway had to merge into one-and-half because of a mound of earth, a small irrigation canal and possibly unauthorised highway markings by the state authorities. The NHAI is possibly busy in filming other areas of the nation and hence they sent their investigation team with mobile cameras! :thumbsdown Also, while the victim is stating that a 'dark object' was on the road, the politicians are busy quoting him with statements such as 'avoiding a pothole like object' caused the accident. The irrigation dept clearly is the culprit in not allowing NHAI go with the sensible alignment of a 3 lane highway.
(Google Earth imagery courtesy of Google Earth, Maxxar and respective map providers)

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Originally Posted by SLK (Post 5467787)

Well that's the story that NHAI and Rishabh Pant are sticking to now. They claim that they checked all speed cameras through the road and this car was never overspeeding.

Fine. If that's true then good.

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With this version, everything else is only speculation and conspiracy theories, which all of us are free to make.

Absolutely, but we can speculate based on what we see. The damage to the guard rail + suspicion of Pant not being a defensive/sedate driver makes me question this. Also the CCTV footage. Especially since there was no other person involved in any way, a cover up doesn't sound far fetched. Granted, all speculation and I'll be happy to stand corrected here.

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There is nothing called a professional driver, other than track drivers, who train and specialize in that. Very heavy vehicle drivers are also well trained, but road cars?

Let's not get stuck on terminologies. How about chauffeur who is experienced, and drives defensively? Does that make more sense? This is what I meant. Of course, from the context anyone can deduce that we're not talking about track drivers.

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So I don't believe there really is something called 'Professional Drivers', there can be good drivers for hire, but most of them are also just safe and steady drivers, they do not have the technical understanding or experience of handling/ speed/ capabilities and limits of a car to be called a 'professional'.

Fine, again we're getting stuck at terminologies. Well rested, safe, defensive drivers with experience would have done better - especially in difficult driving conditions like this. But again since the official version is that he was fully alert, within speed limits and was just avoiding a pothold, I don't think I can add much here.

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Originally Posted by epiccross (Post 5467835)

While it is someone's personal choice whether to hire a driver or not, I fully agree that a safe and sane driver doesn't get into such a situation as this.

Also, the images posted of the road no doubt shows a misalignment. But, a big one at that - only the filling up of the edge looks fresh. There seems to be paint on the road, reflectors and poles with reflectors to show that there is an obstacle ahead. And they don't appear fresh. The TV anchor though mentions reflectors were put in afresh. Though the reflector on the road which shows merging lane paint doesn't look fresh. Important to note that the interviewees and the interviewer only say vehicles coming at some speed are the ones who face difficulties.

Yes, the misalignment is a hazard. But, it looks like that there were at least some measures in place to warn the road users. And being a straight road, any alert driver at sane speed should be able to spot the misalignment unless the conditions were rainy or foggy with the driver driving in left most lane. The contradiction in the official version of being "alert" As against the initial version of "dozing" Has only added to speculation. Someone may need to do a simulation of what force and conditions it takes to bend those railings to the extent they are - to be able to have a fair non-biased idea of what actually would have happened.

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Originally Posted by anandhsub (Post 5467673)

The DDCA report says he was neither overspeeding nor dozing off, but lost control of the car when swerving to avoid a pothole.

NHAI repaired the pothole after the accident while locals said accidents happen regularly due to the pothole on that stretch.

Of course given the state of the car and the guard rails difficult to believe he was going at sane speeds.

DDCA (Delhi DCA) is neither an authority that can declare a road safe, nor was present at the site. Their statement also carries an underlying meaning that anyone passing by the spot will eventually meet an accident. He was going home. A place where he had driven to before. Many times.

The Dehradun District Cricket Association is even worse, where they don't even have a functional cricket ground. They give it away for events more often than they hold cricket matches!

Maybe there was some coal-tar reservoir abandoned on-site or a large oil-spill from the movement of such repair vehicles in anticipation of new year rush of vehicles on the stretch? The police has also stated that there was no animate person or vehicle ahead of the victim, else he would have reacted entirely differently and screeched the brakes in a straight line. Either there was no highway surveillance cameras on the entire stretch, or if any, the cameras have been overwritten by now to close the case. The entire govt machinery is out there to disprove the existence of a 'dark object' on the curb and the presence of a mound of rough ground where the left lane of the highway should normally be aligned at.

While covering long stretches, it's obvious that your average speed is higher than those who commute short distances. Also, for a sportsman who is trained to track and grab a moving projectile of a cricketball, he must have strong reflexes even while tired, against what was being stated as the only 'reason' of the accident. All that is being talked about now is 'all is well now' and it could have been worse.

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Originally Posted by theabstractmind (Post 5467822)

I can't recollect if I posted this previously and my post was deleted by mods - if the video of Pant's crash is genuine, one can hear two short beeps of the horn and a long one when crashing. Purely speculative on my part but the beep pattern seemed to be avoiding some obstacle - human or animal - and not a pothole avoidance. The pattern of the honk sounded panic mode. Well.

Now that the story is seemingly frozen, we have no choice but to rely on official version.

Note to mods: while this post may sound speculative, I am drawing inference from the CCTV footage and therefore request not to treat it as speculative but circumstantial.

The short horn-beeps and the panic-honk in the original videos do mean that there was indeed something at the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if you were driving in the center lane at any speed, where would you turn the steering at the spot where the left lane disappears? The thick fog which is usually present in the adjoining areas must have reflected the lights back and not registered itself as a 'dark object.' The quality of the reflectors placed on the road also matters. A reflector placed at 1 feet above ground can't warn an oncoming vehicle from a distance of 200 meters. The placement of bollards is unjustified and unscientific placement of anything that reflects light, on a highway where the curbs need crash barriers and guard rails.

It wouldn't take a JCB 5 minutes to remove the mound, mend the small field irrigation canal to it's proper place and flatten the curb to properly align the NH 334. Maybe the positioning is intentional for the local 'hafta' police to stop the trucks and commercial vehicles by forcing them to slow down and then hand over the bribes to the corrupt officials before they could get to the next town.

If the roads can't be made safe, the road-tax collected should have a standard deduction of rains, foggy weather and in-animate objects lying on the roads.

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Originally Posted by h3mnzu (Post 5467896)

Maybe there was some coal-tar reservoir abandoned on-site or a large oil-spill from the movement of such repair vehicles in anticipation of new year rush of vehicles on the stretch? The police has also stated that there was no animate person or vehicle ahead of the victim, else he would have reacted entirely differently and screeched the brakes in a straight line. Either there was no highway surveillance cameras on the entire stretch, or if any, the cameras have been overwritten by now to close the case. The entire govt machinery is out there to disprove the existence of a 'dark object' on the curb and the presence of a mound of rough ground where the left lane of the highway should normally be aligned at.

While covering long stretches, it's obvious that your average speed is higher than those who commute short distances.

The short horn-beeps and the panic-honk in the original videos do mean that there was indeed something at the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if you were driving in the center lane at any speed, where would you turn the steering at the spot where the left lane disappears? The thick fog which is usually present in the adjoining areas must have reflected the lights back and not registered itself as a 'dark object.' The quality of the reflectors placed on the road also matters. A reflector placed at 1 feet above ground can't warn an oncoming vehicle from a distance of 200 meters. The placement of bollards is unjustified and unscientific placement of anything that reflects light, on a highway where the curbs need crash barriers and guard rails.

Indeed I pointed out the beeps and acknowledged possibility of an obstacle. Only that explains the honking. But I don't think there is a case to justify the visible speed of the crash especially during dark hours and foggy conditions (the video footage doesn't show fog).

Also, even if any single of those reflectors on the mound were there, they could have been spotted on a straight road. The least of those is the reflector fixed to the road shown in the snapshot below. These ones act as a guide during dark and can easily be spotted. I have driven in pitch dark conditions down ghats and once in foggy condition where these reflectors do a fantastic job of showing the way. If there was a series of these leading up to the painted spot, any regular driver could have spotted them. Not to forget the paint indicating merging lanes - which unless covered in sand must be visible. Whether they cleaned up after the accident?

I know hindsight is 20/20. But something doesn't add up here. I could be totally wrong. But the objective of all these discussions aren't to lay the blame, but to learn what we can from it so that we can avoid such mishaps.

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Originally Posted by h3mnzu (Post 5467828)

Sir, let’s look at some data.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website...rier%20itself.

These are supposed to be people who have the responsibility of carrying the most expensive cargo in the world, humans. Now if they can behave irresponsibly and knowing what kind of stringent tests they have prior flying, and still show wilful misconduct, I won’t blame Mr Pant if it was established that indeed it was a drunk driving case. After all he was just driving home, at high speed.

I am not in a position to comment whether someone who is visiting his family was or wasn’t drunk? Which brings me back to the initial question, was a D&A conducted? All I am saying is that all angles should be explored including the one you mentioned regarding NH. But just blaming the NH, and ignoring D&A angle will not lead us to the root cause.

As someone pointed out earlier that kids look up to these sportsman as role models and BCCI and the media will do utmost to preserve that image.