Team-BHP - Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by skb1811 (Post 5278497)

I bet that most of these people think that having a 5 star rated car makes it invincible...

Forget expecting general population to understand compressive/tensile load, elastic/plastic deformation etc --- the 'mindset' situation is far worse than it.
I have witnessed people with engg degrees say "my car has ABS, so braking distance is far better than non ABS vehicles, I can go really fast, no problem".

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Originally Posted by SS80 (Post 5278868)

The part you highlighted is of the Innova and not under run bar of the truck. I think this is called the lower cross member or radiator protector.

No it isn't. In case of under runs, the lower members are untouched. You can clearly see the same member effectively untouched in that accident pic too. Also check the cross section of the metal highlighted, it is a generic square cross-section bar, which probably welded later in the truck's life to get the RTO approval.

Most trucks in India have underrun bars just to avoid bikers falling under tires. It does nothing for 2+ tonne vehicle traveling towards it at 100kmph.

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Originally Posted by audioholic (Post 5278118)

Unfortunately majority of our trucks and buses have the main chassis ladder quite high up compared to a developed country like in the EU, where most heavy vehicles excluding tippers and cement mixers have the chassis ladder quite low, or if not it would have the ladder itself extended downwards in the rear end of the vehicle. That would help create an ideal frontal crash scenario where most of the design or safety elements would work best.

But this is India.

Yeah I mean most of the coach builders for instance do a lousy job and use unscientific methods in their builds. Just look at some of those mini vans masquerading as buses in the highways, where their bodies protrude out like crazy looking like they would tumble anytime. I am not sure if these coach builders follow any regulations or go through any certifications and even if there is, they are going to simply bypass them.

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Originally Posted by Lobogris (Post 5278140)

Fully agree with you. In addition, a lot of trucks and buses are missing rear lights. That is so obvious to see at night but they continue to ply on manor highways with impunity. What is urgently needed is a properly trained and dedicated highway patrol force to patrol all highways.

Talking about possibilities by looking at the pic, after the rear collision, its possible the Innova got lodged/stuck at the back of the truck. The truck could have moved, or driven slowly to the shoulder/road side after the impact. Not necessarily moved because of the impact, the driver could have driven the truck to the side after impact, not knowing what had happened at the back. It doesn't make sense that the Innova drove on the shoulder for a long distance or at high speeds. There are no skid or swerve marks on the road either.

I think the new age car "reviewers" from Youtube has some role to play here. Their reviews, saying that doors shut with a "thud" and once you are in seat makes you feel you are in a "tank" has lot to do with these cases of over speeding. People take these reviews seriously and to add their overzealous ego causes accidents and is a bane to other motorists and road users.

These drivers have to realize that driving a car at 180 or any speed is the car's capability, not theirs. Reaching the destination safely is the real capability and skill of the driver.

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Originally Posted by sridhu (Post 5261696)

On review, I do not really see how I could have avoided the cow, under normal driving assumptions. (I did have about 2.5 seconds gap with the XUV.)

The only clue is the Dezire in the left lane hitting the brakes.

I don't think there was much you could do in this situation. There was hardly any time to brake.
After seeing this video, I had been thinking of ways of reducing our braking reaction time while driving on the highway. I think the most time is lost moving our foot from accelerator to the brake, and in some cases, in panic, even the wrong pedal is pressed.

To avoid this in my recent highway trips, I tried to use cruise control where ever possible. However, while the cruise control is set I keep my foot at the brake.
This way, when I need to overtake, I can accelerate, do the overtake maneuver and then leave the gas pedal to go back to the set speed. In case of emergencies, my right foot is at the brakes, so I can immediately brake, without any time loss. This also ensure, that I would brake instead of avoiding braking and severing as we used to do prior to ABS.

In case I need some mild braking, the cruise control gets disabled, and all I need to do is press resume to get back to the set speed.

This helps in many ways.
1. Speed remains in check.
2. Acceleration is more moderate, as compared to when we accelerate ourselves.
3. Foot is always on the brake, so we might have quicker braking response times.
4. Better fuel efficiency in automatic, as the car will maintain the speed in top gear, and usually keeps it at low rpms.

It did take some time to get used to using cruise control so often and changing response post braking from accelerating back to using the resume button on cruise control, but overall I feel, I was in better control during panic braking situations. I wanted to post this after trying this over a few thousand kilometers, which I have covered. I had a few incidents of dogs jumping near my car, and I feel, my braking was quicker and I was able to react much better this way. It also helps that I was not monitoring my speeds too much, so was more relaxed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebring (Post 5278608)

Very sad. People have to realise that 'tank like' build quality doesn't mean they're sitting in a tank. My friends laugh at me when I say that I never cross 80KMPh while driving in India. But I just cant handle the 'surprises' thrown at me, at every corner

This is the double-edged sword manufacturers may have to deal with. No manufacturer mentions that their car has the "5-star performance" only up to a certain speed, and in certain crash scenarios. I am not even sure if any advert mentions that the occupants need to be belted.
Normal car buyers do not know (or care) how NCAP ratings are calculated and the limitations of the ratings. All they see is what the manufacturer projects. And the manufacturer tells them they are buying "India's safest car". It is not surprising that the car buyer will push the car further with that extra safety net.
We may continue to see such crashes till people eventually realize that 5-star cars also have a limit.

I don't think we should read much into the 150-200 kmph speed touted in such reports. Only an investigation can provide an answer on vehicle speeds. In my experience, these reports are exaggerated a lot based on how "damaged" the car looks. Even an impact of 80 kmph is enough to split a car into two, depending on where the impact lands on the car.
P.S: Oddly enough I have seen such high speeds mentioned only in crashes involving Tata cars (I remember seeing a Punch underride crash where similar speeds were mentioned).

Mahindra Thar rolls over four times during high speed overtaking. Fortunately, everyone survived as they were wearing seatbelts.

Mahindra Thar Rolls Over 4 Times While Overtaking In North Goa

Detailed report and high-res images in the link above.

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As per one of the famous media portals, the Thar rolled over four times after rushing into a wall while overtaking.

Looking at the images, we see that the accident was horrible and the vehicle’s body was badly damaged. But, fortunately, all the occupants in the Thar were safe thanks to Mahindra’s good build quality. A guy who was inside the car during the accident said that the Mahindra Thar was a test drive vehicle from the showroom and was driven properly carefully. And since they were wearing seatbelts during the ride, everyone sitting in the vehicle was safe after such a fatal accident, and only he got a cut on his hand.

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Originally Posted by the.dogfather (Post 5279423)

To avoid this in my recent highway trips, I tried to use cruise control where ever possible. However, while the cruise control is set I keep my foot at the brake.
This way, when I need to overtake, I can accelerate, do the overtake maneuver and then leave the gas pedal to go back to the set speed. In case of emergencies, my right foot is at the brakes, so I can immediately brake, without any time loss. This also ensure, that I would brake instead of avoiding braking and severing as we used to do prior to ABS.

Thank you! Brilliant idea and technique, which I have never heard of before.

I've seldom driven a car with cruise control, and never missed it, but you have just made the best case I ever heard for it. Cruise control not just as a convenience, but as a contribution to safety.

:thumbs up

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Originally Posted by the.dogfather (Post 5279423)

To avoid this in my recent highway trips, I tried to use cruise control where ever possible. However, while the cruise control is set I keep my foot at the brake.

Fully agree! Even I have adopted this technique for open highways; tried and tested as well for at least 2500+ kms.

The resume button is a life-saver. Although in cases where the speed drops more than 10%, I manually accelerate to within 5kmph of my set cruise speed before pressing resume. This way I can avoid hard acceleration by the car. Not sure if this is an XUV300 thing, but the car always tries to get to set cruise speed within a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by krishnakumar (Post 5279554)

Yes, the resume button in my car also works the same way, the command is "get to the speed ASAP :)"