Team-BHP
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https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)
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Road Safety
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https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-safety/)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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Nope, this is what you call killing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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:Shockked::Shockked:
What happened to the couple on the scooter??
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = mc²
(Post 4402080)
What's with Tata cars getting into all these mishaps of late.? One thing in particular is that almost every car has the temporary plates on them and passengers come out unscathed. They are then scooped up by various pages, applauding their build quality.
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Even I have been noticing the folks talking about the build quality but it's getting to be so much that it seems like a target fixation scenario. People are forgetting the other things happening alongside, like, for instance why is it that only the Tata cars are the ones who's wheels love to face the sky more than their roofs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by discoverwild
(Post 4402113)
There are 100s of crashes each day that happens in India and this topic is witness to it. How many instances of people surviving such horrific crashes come to mind?
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I thought exactly the same point too. Then I started noticing a pattern with the Tata cars.
While the Tatas were also part of what we can technically call "crashes", mostly they were just rollovers in comparison to the other vehicles who saw the real deal like bashing up against stationary lorries at insane speeds, jumping dividers and smooching the oncoming vehicles on the other side, getting hit head on, being a part of high-speed pile-ups, t-boning, getting cut in half by rickshaws(I'm still reeling from that post :what: ) , and the likes, which I think are much more deadly accidents than rolling down the road and showing your wheels to the sky, and then claiming invincibility on top of it! OK, people could still have got maimed or killed in the Tata cases especially if they were not belted up, but I saw a kind of worrying pattern here. The showing-your-wheels-to-the-sky part, I mean. Because apart from the "obvious" part of people being virtually unhurt, it was also true that most of the new Tata boys seemed very topple-happy for God knows what reason. Mostly without any inputs from other vehicles too.
For the record, I'm not a Tata fan boy, at all, but I do believe the Tatas have good build quality when compared to other cars. Yes, I'll give them that. Absolutely. In fact, it's the only thing I find really positive in Tata cars. There, I said it. But somehow, I don't like the idea of playing upside-down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
(Post 4402444)
Another high speed crash of Toyota Fortuner
This is a previous gen Fortuner and looks like airbags have worked perfectly.
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Finally. I think this post should finally settle the uncertainty that was created by the recent cases/posts where the Airbags apparently didn't deploy when they should have, by showing that the airbags are fine and only deploy at particular kind of scenarios and hits which are of a particular intensity. This might vary from brand to brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian
(Post 4402524)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz
(Post 4402685)
While the Tatas were also part of what we can technically call "crashes", mostly they were just rollovers in comparison to the other vehicles who saw the real deal like bashing up against stationary lorries at insane speeds, jumping dividers and smooching the oncoming vehicles on the other side, getting hit head on, being a part of high-speed pile-ups, t-boning, getting cut in half by rickshaws(I'm still reeling from that post :what: ) , and the likes, which I think are much more deadly accidents than rolling down the road and showing your wheels to the sky, and then claiming invincibility on top of it! OK, people could still have got maimed or killed in the Tata cases especially if they were not belted up, but I saw a kind of worrying pattern here. The showing-your-wheels-to-the-sky part, I mean. Because apart from the "obvious" part of people being virtually unhurt, it was also true that most of the new Tata boys seemed very topple-happy for God knows what reason. Mostly without any inputs from other vehicles too.
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Plenty of instances of head-on collisions too. Check out the post of the Scorpio a few posts back and the Nexon a page earlier, just to quote a couple.
Rolling over is more to driver error (sudden counter steering inputs) than just the vehicle design. Taller vehicles tend to roll over much more than hatchbacks and sedans because of the high centre of gravity.
No two accidents are the same. So it's hard to pinpoint why a car rolled over or was damaged lesser or crumpled. All our inferences are post-mortem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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This is definitely as pointed out earlier, murder. :Frustrati Any idea what happened to the couple on the activa?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrongturn
(Post 4402595)
We must consider the aspect of pedestrian safety as well and on the basis of that I think I will not criticize the MSIL build quality here.
The passenger cabin is intact, the crumble zones did their job fairly well. As for the damages, they will be covered by the insurance. Nothing can compensate for a loss of life.
Put a pedestrian inplace of the vehicle in this scenario, I assume he would also have suffered less damages.
Good Job MSIL.
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I don't agree with you on this. In most of the cases, a pedestrian is thrown over when a car crashes into him/her. In a case where a pedestrian is struck infront of the car, even these delicate sheets present on the car will not help. The human body is not so strong that it can withstand the huge force exerted during the crash. Also the crumpled sheet metal and other stuff can prove to be fatal for a person as these things can pierce through the human body.
According to me, MSIL is delivering products with lower built quality and is covering this fact by saying that the quality is due to crumple zones, pedestrian safety etc.
However I also agree that we can go on forever debating about the products by MSIL and will find people fighting for and against the topic. stupid:
So far, I have come across many accidents involving Maruti Suzuki cars and believe that the quality and strength of the cars are being compromised.
Just browse the internet and we can find many accidents involving cars by VW, Ford, Skoda, Tata, etc where the passengers survived near fatal crashes and the car too did not show so much of damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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No. I will go all the way and call this
murder. For the following reasons.
1. Driving on wrong side of the road.
2. Cutting into oncoming traffic
3. Complete disregard for human life. The driver did all of this just to save few bucks of his fuel cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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The bus driver should be charged with manslaughter. Wrong side driving is becoming a trend these days :Frustrati. Near Pune, who can see people driving on the wrong side with high beam and high speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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Certainly not. But, such scenes are not uncommon nowadays even in NH.
I am a regular traveller using Chennai Trichy NH 45 . Even government buses come in the opposite direction , wherever they need to intersect the NH. While self discipline and compliance to safety rules are the most basic needs for safe driving, NH should have been designed, considering such intersection. Even , one can see lots of cattles crossing between Ulundurpet and Samayapuram. One may not know, when a cattle suddenly jumps out of the plantations in the median.
Underpasses are the simplest way to provide way for local traffic to move between the sides.
Maduravoyal bypass in Chennai has been completely plugged from such crossings, which was earlier abused by quarry tippers. Now, the lanes and sides are fully closed with medians / barriers and no one can cross in between. However, they enabled the service road pretty well for the benefit of locals. Same is the case with Outer ring road between Vandalur and Minjur.
Long way to go !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil_burner
(Post 4402739)
I don't agree with you on this. In most of the cases, a pedestrian is thrown over when a car crashes into him/her. In a case where a pedestrian is struck infront of the car, even these delicate sheets present on the car will not help. The human body is not so strong that it can withstand the huge force exerted during the crash. Also the crumpled sheet metal and other stuff can prove to be fatal for a person as these things can pierce through the human body.
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It doesn't matter wheather you agree to it or not these are facts not speculations. Please refrain from providing wrong or hearsay information. You are a member of an esteemed Indian automotive forum. These posts are read by thousands of people.
Atleast you could have done a little research by googling on the subject before posting your judgement.
Nevermind, here is what I would call a beginner's guide on the subject, wikipedia link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pede...vehicle_design 
Quote:
In May 2013 the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported that more than 270 000 pedestrians lose their lives on the world’s roads each year accounting for 22% of the total 1.24 million road traffic deaths [1]. Despite the magnitude of the problem, most attempts at reducing pedestrian deaths had historically focused solely on education and traffic regulation. Since the 1970s, crash engineers have begun to use design principles that have proved successful in protecting car occupants to develop vehicle design concepts that reduce the likelihood of injuries to pedestrians in the event of a car-pedestrian crash. These involve redesigning the bumper, hood (bonnet), and the windshield and pillar to be energy absorbing (softer) without compromising the structural integrity of the car.
Anatomy of a pedestrian crash
Most pedestrian crashes involve a forward moving car (as opposed to buses and other vehicles with a vertical hood/bonnet). In such a crash, a standing or walking pedestrian is struck and accelerated to the speed of the car and then continues forward as the car brakes to a halt. Although the pedestrian is impacted twice, first by the car and then by the ground, most of the fatal injuries occur due to the interaction with the car. The vehicle designers usually focus their attention on understanding the car-pedestrian interaction, which is characterized by the following sequence of events: the vehicle bumper first contacts the lower limbs of the pedestrian, the leading edge of the hood hits the upper thigh or pelvis, and the head and upper torso are struck by the top surface of the hood and/or windshield.
Reducing pedestrian injuries
Most pedestrian deaths occur due to the traumatic brain injury resulting from the hard impact of the head against the stiff hood or windshield. In addition, although usually non-fatal, injuries to the lower limb (usually to the knee joint and long bones) are the most common cause of disability due to pedestrian crashes. A Frontal Protection System (FPS) is a device fitted to the front end of a vehicle to protect both pedestrians and cyclists who are involved in a front-end collision with a vehicle. Car design has been shown to have a large impact on the scope and severity of pedestrian injury in car crashes.[3]
While the lower limb is the most commonly injured body region, most pedestrian fatalities are due to head injuries.
Volvo has created a pedestrian and cycle recognition ADAS with automatic braking designed to reduce pedestrian collisions. With pedestrian injuries and fatalities increasing dramatically in the US in 2017, perhaps because of increasingly distracted driving with entertainment and communication systems in cars, pedestrian safety driver support systems may become widespread.
Protecting the head
The hood of most vehicles is usually fabricated from sheet metal, which is a compliant energy absorbing structure and thus poses a comparatively small threat. Most serious head injuries occur when there is insufficient clearance between the hood and the stiff underlying engine components. A gap of approximately 10 cm is usually enough to allow the pedestrian’s head to have a controlled deceleration and a significantly reduced risk of death. Creating room under the hood is not always easy because usually there are other design constraints, such as aerodynamics and styling. In some regions of the hood it can be impossible. These include along the edges on which the hood is mounted and the cowl, where the hood meets the windshield. Engineers have attempted to overcome this problem by using deformable mounts, and by developing more ambitious solutions such as airbags that are activated during the crash and cover the stiff regions of the hood[4]. Some models, like the Citroën C6 and Jaguar XK feature a novel pop-up bonnet design, which adds 6.5 cm (2.5", C6) extra clearance over the engine block if the bumper senses a hit. In 2012 and 2015, the Volvo V40 and the Land Rover Discovery Sport have an under-the hood airbag which operates if the hood senses a hit. The airbag also covers the windshield pillars to provide better protection in all areas struck by the pedestrian's head
Protecting the limbs
Most limb injuries occur due to a direct blow from the bumper and the leading edge of the hood. This leads to contact fractures of the femur and the tibia/fibula and damage to the knee ligaments due to bending of the joint. Thus, attempts at reducing these injuries involve reducing the peak contact forces by making the bumper softer and increasing the contact area and by limiting the amount of knee bending by modifying the geometry of the front end of the car. Computer simulations and experiments with cadavers show that when cars have lower bumpers, the thigh and leg rotate together causing the knee to bend less and thus reducing the likelihood of ligament injuries. Deeper bumper profiles and structures under the bumper (such as the air dam) can also assist in limiting the rotation of the leg.
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It would be very helpful and highly appreciated if one of the members or moderators can start a new thread on the subject of pedestrian safety through vehicle design. It would be really good initiative in spreading the awareness about this very serious subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrongturn
(Post 4402846)
It doesn't matter wheather you agree to it or not these are facts not speculations. Please refrain from providing wrong or hearsay information. You are a member of an esteemed Indian automotive forum. These posts are read by thousands of people.
Atleast you could have done a little research by googling on the subject before posting your judgement.
Nevermind, here is what I would call a beginner's guide on the subject, wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pede...vehicle_design Attachment 1762467 It would be very helpful and highly appreciated if one of the members or moderators can start a new thread on the subject of pedestrian safety through vehicle design. It would be really good initiative in spreading the awareness about this very serious subject.
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I am sorry but this means that cars from brands such as VW, Skoda, Ford, Mini, Toyota, etc are completely dangerous for the pedestrians. I already said that we can find many who will support MSIL and the built quality offered by the company. There is always an excuse to hide the negatives and MSIL used this as an opportunity to hide the light build quality.
I remember inspecting the Ford Endevour when I took delivery of my Aspire. I applied all my power but was not able to press the hood of the Endevour. Similar was the case with the Toyota Fortuner, Scorpio, Nexon, Ecosport, etc. Also cars such as i20 and the VW Polo have a very strong sheet metal. So what I conclude from your COPY PASTED post is that only MSIL is focusing of pedestrian safety. I am not here to offend anyone and I know many more aspects are involved while designing a car but MSIL is ACTUALLY providing cars with very light built quality and in defense, it brings topics such as crumple zones, pedestrian safety, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu
(Post 4402628)
Can you call this an accident?
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Atrocious!
Just drove Bangalore - Madikeri - Bekal and back over 5 days and all through all I could see were police vehicles with speed cameras and everyone driving on the wrong side of the road whenever convenient, the speed cameras don't care about them. Don't really think speed is the problem on these roads but the overall complication of managing oncoming traffic on both sides is. Surprisingly the traffic discipline was way better on a single carriage-way sections, probably because no one has to go 1 km and take the nearest U-Turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil_burner
(Post 4402918)
...
I remember inspecting the Ford Endevour when I took delivery of my Aspire. I applied all my power but was not able to press the hood of the Endevour.
Similar was the case with the Toyota Fortuner, Scorpio, Nexon, Ecosport, etc. Also cars such as i20 and the VW Polo have a very strong sheet metal.
...
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This 'push test' does not really indicate the 'strength', or lack there of, of any car,
please stop using it as any such measure.
The hood, fenders, & other body panels, do not really contribute to the structural integrity of the car, the underlying monocoque is what's really responsible for that.
Like in humans, a thick skin does not really help with strength ( other than with light scrapes & bruises ).
That said, it's
my opinion that in it's quest for higher & higher fuel efficiency numbers, Maruti has reduced the sheet metal down to a bare minimum & that if their cars were crash tested at speeds higher than the current standard ( is it 64 Kmph ? ), they would most likely fare at the bottom of the pile ( along with Nissan, I might add ).
That said, I understand where Maruti is coming from, they've decided to put their eggs in the fuel efficiency basket & an easy way to achieve better numbers is to reduce the weight of the car. I remember, many years ago, when they publicised
a program to reduce the weight of every single component in a car by at least a gram.
In our country, fuel efficiency sells, if the price of fuel skyrockets in the future ( God forbid ), those with Marutis would be frowning a tiny bit less at the pumps. And nobody's immune, at a high enough fuel price, even the enthusiast will cave, viz. the OPEC crisis of '73 & the death of the gas guzzlers.
Last night I was driving from Kumbakonam to Bangalore with Bla Bla car friends and witnessed a sad accident right in front of us on the Trichy highway. I guess we were at the accident spot within a few minutes of it happening.
A dark grey Maruti Swift and a white Maruti Omni. It looked like the Swift took an unplanned/aggressive overtake and hit the Omni on the opposite lane. Due to the impact, Swift and Omni were dragged to opposite lanes of each other. Left headlight area of the Swift and right headlight area of the Omni were the impacted zones.
The impact in the Swift was less and there were no fatal injuries to the occupants, I believe. But the Omni's occupants were severely hurt. I could find almost an entire family with children on the road who are dragged out of the Omni (2 male adults, 2 female adults and 2-3 children).
It was very disheartening to see the children in the trauma of the accident situation, and one of the male adults is crying hopelessly and pleading to everyone to save the people. All the occupants are outside the Omni except the driver, as his right leg was stuck inside the crushed front parts of the Omni. We called the ambulance, and tried to pry open the side door to help the driver to come out. But while pulling the seats back, he asked us to stop as he couldn't move due to his leg being severely injured and stuck inside. We left the place after the police and ambulance arrived at the spot; praying for the occupants.
I kept telling the driver of the Omni that nothing would happen to him and he can be safely taken out and he will be alright. One of the so called visitors looked at the driver side impact and signaled to us with two fingers that his leg has to be cut to get him out of the car. I don't know how people can be so insensitive in such situations. :deadhorse
From this morning, I have been trying to get the updates of that accident on the internet but couldn't get anywhere. If anyone has any updates, please share. Hope all of them are doing good with minor injuries. please:
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