[subuiyer]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

You don't have to take my word for any of this, please practice what I told you to try out and trust me if you actually do, you will pm me saying how much more confidence you have gained from god knows where behind the wheel

I realize it is more of a mindset. Having learnt a 'clutch > brake' style, it does take some effort to shift to a 'brake > clutch' sequence. I understand the physics, but at present it takes conscious effort on my part to follow the latter.

When put in an emergency situation, the subconscious reflex took over and I ended up hitting clutch > brake. It is a manifestation of primitive thought that engine engaged means cars keeps moving - so to stop disengage and hit breaks.

Clearly, I need more practice so that the latter moves into my subconscious and becomes my style

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by subuiyer

I realize it is more of a mindset. Having learnt a 'clutch > brake' style, it does take some effort to shift to a 'brake > clutch' sequence. I understand the physics, but at present it takes conscious effort on my part to follow the latter. ... ... ...

It is hard to change an engrained habit, but you can, and on this one, you should. Clutch-then-brake is simply not that safe and not that effective. This is not just a matter of style, or being picky: it is very basic. And when we find out we got something basic wrong, we just have to change.

I don't know how, but my mum got in the habit of braking with both feet. But she was way into her 80s by then. She should have known better, because I know she used to know better. But hey, wonder if I'll be driving at all when I'm 89!

Whatever you practice, for refinement and experiment in the long run, in the short term, just stand on the brake. Let the abs do its work, that is what it is there for.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by subuiyer

When put in an emergency situation, the subconscious reflex took over and I ended up hitting clutch > brake. It is a manifestation of primitive thought that engine engaged means cars keeps moving - so to stop disengage and hit breaks.

I totally understand. Yes it is a very common instinct I see many people even being taught in driving schools or instructed by their own family drivers to use the clutch while braking so it is totally understandable that you would be used to that and fall back on it instinctively. BUT what I can also tell you is that I have successfully taught each and every one of my friends who drives, to do it the right way and give up their habit of using the clutch while braking. It is not as difficult as it seems. All you need to do is get a proper feel of the brakes by squeezing the pedal and engine by observing on/off throttle transitions etc. once you actually explore those minute details for a couple of weeks they will no longer be daunting needles in a haystack that you fear you cannot call upon or trust at all times. Soon enough you will be able to feel them without even paying attention to them. Never underestimate your ability to learn something new, all you need is a dose of confidence, some free time and an empty lot

[Pferdestarke]

Came across this clipping just now. A 14 month old toddler survives after being run over by a reversing civic in Bengaluru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR60VWArNrs

[Vikram8891]

Originally Posted by subuiyer

A few months ago my Duster AWD was involved in a 7 car pile up on the west-bound Patlipada flyover on the Godbunder road, Thane. It happened on a weekend about 7:30 pm.

Kudos to you Sir, for maintaining a calm mindset. Generally after panic subsides, tempers flare. In you case you were actually controlled enough that you helped the guy in the Swift.

What irked me is the mentality that bull bars are considered a safety feature in cars even by people who do not know how to drive.

[Thad E Ginathom]

bull bars are considered a safety feature in cars even by people who do not know how to drive.

That's easy. It is that they are considered a safety feature by those who do know how to drive that is the problem.

[VinodDevil81]

Originally Posted by Vikram8891

What irked me is the mentality that bull bars are considered a safety feature in cars even by people who do not know how to drive.

Safety to whom?
What safety do they provide other than the visual appeal and the false sense of safety they create in the owner's mind?

And what about the utter ignorance and violation of the Pedestrian safety norms set by global agencies like Euro NCAP by using these hard metal bull bars ahead of the front bumper?
And what about the added weight of this bar to the car's front, and its impact on the car's driving dynamics?

But who cares about all these?

More than any actual functionality, to many, bull-bar is the shortcut method to make the car look macho and SUV-ish.

Nowadays it is such a common sight to see these bull-bars even on small WagonRs and Swifts that have monocoque chassis.
These bars actually make the small cars look weird and disproportionate.

It is a known fact that in the event of an accident involving severe frontal collision, the bull bar will directly transmit the force to the chassis where it gets bolted to, thereby causing severe damage to the chassis, bypassing the bumper and crumple zones.

So think about it- the maximum that this bar can protect is the bumper.

In a small car like WagonR, the replacement and painting cost of a new front bumper will be less than Rs. 5000.
Also unlike the bull bar, which is an extra-fitting, you can claim insurance for the bumper.

But for protecting this 5000 Rs bumper, these people fit a bull bar that costs twice as much as the bumper!
Crazy logic indeed!

[RajaTaurus]

^^ +1 to that. I have even seen i-10s and Altos with bull bars. As the name implies when fitted on locomotives, they are supposed to 'scoop and throw away' obstructions. But then, on cars it is detrimental both to the occupants and pedestrians.

[BenjiRoss]

Logic:
"Two wheelers scratch and ding my bumper and the car starts looking ugly. That is why I've put this ugly looking bull bar on my car. Now the bumper is pristine while the ugly bullbar looks more uglier, scratched and dinged."
Welcome to India!
A lot of the bull bars I have seen are scratched and dinged and misaligned.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by VinodDevil81

Safety to whom?
What safety do they provide other than the visual appeal and the false sense of safety they create in the owner's mind?

And what about the utter ignorance and violation of the Pedestrian safety norms set by global agencies like Euro NCAP by using these hard metal bull bars ahead of the front bumper? ... ... ...

Indeed, it is the impact to an on pedestrians that is the biggest thing, followed by the damage they do to other cars.

Bullbars kill.

[NowNew7]

Originally Posted by arjithin

Found this Amaze inside Bandipur forest road yesterday morning. The place this accident happened is between 2 speed breakers which are just 500 meter apart and very sparse traffic and good visibility ahead, wonder how such a crash happened.

I crossed this on the way to Wayanad too... and was wondering how this could have happened. One possibility is the driver got distracted while seeing some of the wildlife that abounds the area (we were driving really slow with the passengers, not the driver, trying to find interesting stuff.) The other possibility could be speeding by the truck, as we encountered a local speeding truck on the way back that was tailgating and honking like crazy. Gave him a pass at the earliest to conserve our peace of mind!

[FORTified]

Originally Posted by VinodDevil81

So think about it- the maximum that this bar can protect is the bumper.

In a small car like WagonR, the replacement and painting cost of a new front bumper will be less than Rs. 5000.
Also unlike the bull bar, which is an extra-fitting, you can claim insurance for the bumper.

But for protecting this 5000 Rs bumper, these people fit a bull bar that costs twice as much as the bumper!
Crazy logic indeed!

Consider this fact : The Bumper might need replacement multiple times, with each hard hit and hence it is multiples of 5K - using your numbers.
The Bullbar might cost double the bumper but might survive 8-10 hits.
On small cars, having a rear bull bar may not be all that bad. Its not going to hurt people and only going to save the occupants from hard rear entries

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by Pferdestarke

Came across this clipping just now. A 14 month old toddler survives after being run over by a reversing civic in Bengaluru.

Man that's gut-wrenching!

Just shows how dangerous blind spots are. Can't even really blame the Civic driver at all - he was reversing pretty responsibly and looking back as well.

Roads aren't a safe place to leave your children to play without adult supervision. I guess that's a downside of our cramped urban lives.

Guess this is a case where a reverse camera / sensor might have really helped!!


Glad the kid survived. Hope she makes a full recovery.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Pferdestarke

Came across this clipping just now. A 14 month old toddler survives after being run over by a reversing civic in Bengaluru.

That's gut-wrenching, particularly since I nearly did that to my own daughter several years back. I was reversing from a restaurant parking with my daughter 25-30m away near my wife; but suddenly she broke free and ran towards my reversing car. A nearby driver noticed her running and honked loudly; he also stepped out and signaled me to stop. To this day I lose sleep thinking about it.

In this instance I can't absolve that driver completely. They have a passenger; and it might have been prudent to ask the passenger to step out to monitor blind spots while reversing. I rarely reverse unsupervised especially in residential areas; to the extent of asking a passerby or a guard to keep an eye on the rear if I'm alone.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Practice this in an empty parking lot or any ground

Originally Posted by subuiyer

Clearly, I need more practice so that the latter moves into my subconscious and becomes my style

@subuiyer - Here are a couple of related threads with quite a few brilliant posts like IshaanIan's above:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...brakes-11.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-right-28.html

Cheers,
Vikram