Team-BHP - Accidents in India

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer (Post 3953887)

I am curious to hear the conclusion leap as to why it would be unsafe for me?!

And if no vehicle is inherently safe/unsafe, I assume that given the choice you would not pay for airbags/ABS and the like in your car, if you also drive one.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough and got the wrong point across.

When I said that no vehicle is inherently safe, what I meant was no matter you are on two wheels or four, whether your car has 100 airbags, abs, TCS, ebd, crumple zones and every other safety feature conceived ever, nothing can save you from stupidity.
People have this conception that with airbags and abs on their cars they can go hit a wall at 200kmph and walk away.

If car guys stopped thinking this way and stopped bullying us all the time just because they have this sense of security, motorcyclists would be much happier.

And the car I drive never came with airbags and abs, but other cars in my house are equipped with them. And yes, I do love cars and I drive as much as possible. I have done cross country trips solo, both on bikes and cars.

Edit - Sir, I completely agree with your concerns regarding motorcycles being unsafe, but then so are cars. Relatively less, but unsafe nonetheless. Pretty much being on Indian roads is unsafe. As I stated in my first post, I am scared when on my bike. When in my car, I'm less scared. But what I've tried to put across all the time is if car drivers were a bit more understanding, us motorcyclists would have a better time riding and we can coexist on the roads without undue risks. We bikers cannot completely eliminate the perils of riding. But it'd be a lot better if we could lessen it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerdabba (Post 3954245)

I've tried to put across all the time is if car drivers were a bit more understanding, us motorcyclists would have a better time riding and we can coexist on the roads without undue risks.

Oh I agree with this 100%. Why riders, even people in cars would also be a lot safer if other car drivers were more understanding, not just bikers.

As a car driver I give anyone on a 2 wheeler a wide berth and an even wider than normal berth when it is raining. If road conditions do not allow that, I make sure I am very slow.

But one of the reasons I do this is also because there are so many idiots on 2 wheelers on Indian roads that seem to be quite happy to put their life in my hands. A small coming together with another car will never hurt any person, but there is no knowing what a small coming together with a rider will end up doing all the way up to a death.

To be fair to Maruti, they may actually be doing what they are advertising.
Maruti never claims that if you hit a 5-10 ton monster head on, Ertiga will be able to save you.
As a matter of fact, accidents in India are so unpredictable that one cannot rely on safety features of our modern cars.
Moreover, judging a car's strength on how is handles real life accident is quite unscientific (& un-bhpian) way, in my humble opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat (Post 3954322)

Where is the "body structure made of higher tensile steel and carefully positioned reinforcements" that Maruti advertises? It's high time that Maruti was made liable for false & misleading advertising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apachelongbow (Post 3954142)

A bike may be less safe compared to a car, but a car is less safe than an airplane by extension of your logic, and a plane is more dangerous than sitting at home. May be we should all sit at home, no risk at all?

I believe, more people die in natural and man-made disasters than plane crashes. So staying at home will not ensure that there is no risk. I think what we need to look into is avoidable risks and option one chooses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer (Post 3954298)

But one of the reasons I do this is also because there are so many idiots on 2 wheelers on Indian roads that seem to be quite happy to put their life in my hands.

Can we agree that we have both bad drivers and bad riders on Indian roads? I personally believe that I will be little safer in my car, if a moron drives/rides in an idiotic manner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur (Post 3954428)

No car, repeat, no car can survive a crash that is clearly outside of all its design limits.

Absolutely anupmathur you are spot on about that fact and there are no 2 ways to this. :thumbs up

It is quite vague and too very assumptive to say that had this been an Audi Q3 or BMW X1, we could have had survivors. It is not clear the speed of impact, impact source, etc.
That impact is so sever that I really doubt if even seat belts or air bags would have been of little use here.

Condolences to the family. But the brighter side of all this is here:

Quote:

Fortunately, Dhananjay’s five-year-old daughter, who was also in the car, has survived and is undergoing medical treatment for her injuries.

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Originally Posted by KD007 (Post 3954445)

On NICE road yesterday (17th April) just before PES college exit

Innova - don't know about the driver, the passenger shirt was soaked in blood but he was drinking water on his own. so guess he would be okay.

Not sure it hit what, by evening when we returned back it was all cleared

By the looks of it, the Innova rear-ended a truck. By any chance, did you notice a truck standing on the side a few metres ahead? There may or may not be visible damage to the truck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat (Post 3954322)

4 Goans including Mr & Mrs Dhananjay Narvekar from Amona Bicholim, Santosh Naik from Panaji, Ertiga vehicle owner Girish killed at Sankeshwar on Belgavi - Pune NH on early Saturday

http://www.navhindtimes.in/4-killed-...at-sankeshwar/

Where is the "body structure made of higher tensile steel and carefully positioned reinforcements" that Maruti advertises? It's high time that Maruti was made liable for false & misleading advertising.

If the Ertiga hit a truck, at highway speeds, then no amount of the much touted structural safety engineering is going to help. As mentioned by others in this matter, the Ertiga would have taken a hit very high up, close to the A-pillar, so the crumple zones would not have functioned as designed in such an impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat (Post 3954322)

Dear Sir,
Are you aware how the accident took place? What was the speed and how did the impact occur, what were the circumstances, what was the other vehicle involved in the accident? If no, please don't judge Maruti for structural rigidity of its cars.

Please understand, all cars are metal boxes, with some safeguards like airbags, TCS etc thrown in. All these will account for *ZILCH* if the car undergoes a high velocity impact, or an impact against a heavy vehicle. Why is Maruti at fault here? Why should one sue them?

It is akin to suing a gun manufacturer for all deaths caused due to guns, isn't it? :deadhorse

For every example of Maruti Cars you see destroyed in this thread:
1. You will find models from different car manufacturer destroyed while in an accidents in this same thread. In fact, the level of destruction could be even worse.
2. You will find, in this same forum, how a Maruti car saved someone's life in an accident.

Please give up on brand bashing unnecessarily. Cars, in that matter, all vehicles are meant to be driven responsibly following traffic rules and accounting for safety margins.

You know, despite doing all these, one's luck may run out and he crashes because of someone else's mistake. Good luck to him suing god knows who!

Best,

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha (Post 3954463)

By the looks of it, the Innova rear-ended a truck. By any chance, did you notice a truck standing on the side a few metres ahead? There may or may not be visible damage to the truck.

If the Ertiga hit a truck, at highway speeds, then no amount of the much touted structural safety engineering is going to help. As mentioned by others in this matter, the Ertiga would have taken a hit very high up, close to the A-pillar, so the crumple zones would not have functioned as designed in such an impact.

Nope, no truck standing, the truck which you see in the picture is the moving traffic coming from behind. Maybe the truck carried on. Also the innova was bang in the middle lane. All i could see and capture was the innova and the people stopping to help

I saw a few threads here over the past few days discussing the safety or otherwise of motorcycle riders on Indian roads.

I drive mostly in Bombay and I have been observing a steady decline in driving discipline over the past few years. When I first moved to Bombay about 15 years back, lane driving was mostly the norm and it was not uncommon to notice people in cars using the turn indicators to change lanes. We all know how easy it is to get a driver's licence in India. As more and more people get cars, they quickly get drivers' licences and dive into the traffic, irrespective of their ability to handle their vehicles and the traffic. Today lane cutting is becoming very common.

With more cars on the road, average driving speeds are falling. The average Mumbaikar is always in a hurry, be it the grocery shop assistant or the man in the queue for the local train ticket. With inadequate driving experience or training, the person driving the vehicle takes his everyday expectations with him into traffic. The traffic light does not change to green quickly enough. The person in the car in front does not move quickly enough. The situation is such today that in the morning, if I see a motorcyclist waiting at the traffic light, I feel mildly surprised.

I saw a comment here by a motorcyclist that cars try to cut across in his path and occupy his space in the lane. This is becoming common nowadays. Often you have other cars cutting across lanes when they suspect the other lane to be faster and see a little bit of space there.

While this is becoming common with cars, this is the only way motorcyclists ride in heavy traffic. Speaking from my own experience, I have lost count of the number of times this exact routine gets repeated. A motorcyclist gets into the space between my car and the car to my left. He rides in the space for a while and then when the space increases between him and the car ahead, he cuts across the car he was driving beside. Invariably that car has to brake to avoid hitting the motorcyclist. I have a habit of driving a little too close to the car ahead of me. As a result, the biker finds it comparatively difficult to cut across in front of me. But more and more often these days, the biker seems to consider it his right to cut across. I remember at least five occasions when the biker has made contact with my fender or bumper and had trouble retaining balance. After that of course, the fact that the knock happened, is my fault.

I was quite pleasantly surprised to read the comments of a motorcyclist that he rides in a lane, as against splitting lanes - which is the only way I have seen motorcyclists in Bombay- barring none.

The Bombay Police have been coming down heavily on drunk driving. That is a good thing. But there are so many things they turn an absolutely blind eye to, that while they may be nabbing the biggest culprits, they are letting the smaller offenders off in droves. Running red lights is passe. Stop line is something nobody even acknowledges. Often vehicles at a red light creep forward occupying the road halfway up to the centre of the crossroads. In the next two or three years, lane driving will have become a story for your grandchildren. Motorcyclists will probably be allowed to ride on the wrong side of the road if the correct side is crowded.

And finally, this thread will see more and more pictures.