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Originally Posted by n.devdath Correct, but how many BMWs/CEOs do you see on the road. They are still a rarity. |
Huh? That's rididulous. I thought we are talking about guzzlers "per se"! Firstly, by themselves, they are even more of gas guzzlers than our 10 lakh SUVs.
It just shows the irony of the situation when people will not hesitate to call "10 kpl SUVs" guzzlers, yet the same people will never speak of a 4 kpl S500 in an equally derogatory manner.
Second, do you think that India is the only country that contributes to global warming? LOL! There are atleast 40 million V6 - V8 5 kpl cars on the roads worldwide today. But hey, as I posted earlier, the "gas guzzler" term is only for SUVs right? Even if they give a reasonable 10 kpl in the city and 12 on the highway! And no, this trend isn't exclusive to India. It's prevalent in teh States too. Americans will scoff at a Hummer H3, but drool over a Mercedes S550 or a Mustang V8 (which are as much of a guzzler as the Hummer). Blind bashing is an appropriate term here.
Another example of blind bashing SUVS : Why is it that only SUVs are targetted?
Why not MUVs? In the last 5 pages of discussion, I have not seen anyone bring up an MUV. Are all MUVs laden with 9 passengers all of the time? It is a fact that MUVs outsell SUVs in our country, and we see more MUVS in urban India than SUVs. Why this herd mentality of targeting SUVs alone? Because they look cooler? Or is it because they are macho? Or is it due to their intimidating design?
Or are you of the opinion that every Innova out there always has 7 passengers & is used only on the highway? I have yet to see criticism toward an MUV. Worth thinking about. Worth a point.
I see more sedans carrying one person, than I do even two. Thus, when a 5 seater can carry 1 passenger and get away with it, why do we point a finger at an SUV carrying 2? Ah, the imbalance within our society.
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But these "affordable SUVs" and I use the term again, to its true meaning when compared to cars of the same price range and fuel type consume at least 30% more fuel and of course, emit the same amount of pollutants as well.
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Take a look at this statement again:
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Ah, affordable SUVs. The Mahindra Scorpio gives 9.9 in the city and 13 on the highway, the Sumo Grande 9.7 and a similar 13ish on the highway, the Bolero DI 12.1 and 14.5, while the Tata Safari 9.4 & 12.7.
What part of these affordable SUVs FE looks like a guzzler to you?
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Of course. But that doesn't take away from the fact that 9.5 - 10.0 kpl is still a very respectable FE figure for congested cities. Give these affordable SUVs an open road and they'll deliver between 11 - 12 kpl. Hardly a number that we can call a guzzler.
Think of it OBJECTIVELY. Are the affordable SUVs that we are talking about guzzlers? No ways.
Would a diesel sedan be more FE than an SUV? Of course. But then, why stop at sedans? Basically what you are saying is, why do the job with bigger when it can be done with smaller?
Considering that 90% of the sedans out there are carrying only 1 - 2 passengers 90% of the time, all of us can buy Tata Nanos. Or wait, even Hero Honda CD100s & mopeds.
Just because there is a more fuel efficient alternative to the same task doesn't make a vehicle that is respectably fuel efficient to start with (e.g. a 10 kpl SUV) a guzzler.
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Correct, very true. Which is why I use public transport on a daily basis to office, try to use my Bullet only for weekend/highway drives and hardly use my Cielo.
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Still doesn't take away from the fact that, how much ever you use your Bullet, a Hero Honda CD100 would be more fuel efficient and serve exactly the same function.
The difference between a Hero Honda and your Bullet is less than the difference between a fuel efficient sedan and an "affordable" SUV. Go figure. Very convenient to ride a vehicle half as fuel efficient as other alternatives that can do the same job, but blindly call 10 kpl SUVs as gas guzzlers!
Remember, we aren't talking about heavy usage patterns versus light. We are discussing FE & carbon footprints (independent of usage quantity).
On a related note, didn't you just recommend a 6 - 7 kpl Skoda RS to someone in another thread? For someone who is so concerned about FE & carbon emissions, I can surely see how that car is green.
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They are a menace if not driven responsibly.
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Any car is a menace if driven irresponsibly. A 100 BHP Verna being driven rashly, in the wrong hands, is as much of a menace as any other car on the road.
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So going by your line of thought lets ignore the fuel efficient saloons, which are safer, faster and comfortable and buy only SUVs.
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It's pretty obvious that you've missed my line of thought so please go back and read my post again, in entirety. I have absolutely no problem with someone driving an 800 to Ladakh, or using an affordable "respectable FE" SUV in the city. I insist, to each his own, AS LONG as it is within the legal framework. And to those that call SUV's gas guzzlers, I've just given you examples of well-priced 10 kpl SUVs. No one in their right frame of mind is going to call a 10 kpl SUV a guzzler.
Actually, today, you can have your cake and eat it too. Get the Scorpio hybrid. While your Cielo - which doesn't even meet todays emission norms - is spitting out emissions from its tail pipe in traffic, the scorpio start-stop feature will shut the engine off = zero emissions! So which is more environment friendly here? A Scorpio microhybrid which will give 11 kpl in the city, zero emissions when standing still in traffic or a Cielo running on outdated emission standards & gives out 7 kpl in the city?
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RE: Which is exactly the point here. We, as a forum need to arrive at justifiable opinions because we are viewed, analyzed and to a certain extent, emulated by many. Lets us understand that we have a social and environmental responsibility and not shirk from it on the basis of "to each his own"theory.
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Absolutely. That's why we have articles on fuel efficiency, safe driving and do NOT permit a single thread or post on street racing. That said, we do not believe in biased information or unfounded statements, which is precisely the reasoning behind this debate. I find it ironical how someone can call a 10 kpl SUV a guzzler, and in the same breadth accept a 5 kpl Accord V6 or a 4 kpl S500. This is hilarity at its absolute best and we do what we can to bust myths.
If we have to spread awareness, we ought to do so factually. Precisely why I make the point that most "affordable" Indian SUVS are pretty fuel-efficient. They are NOT guzzlers. Heck, even the Honda Civic consumes more fuel than these SUVs.
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Good that you will not buy an SUV for urban use because that was my entire point.
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Again, I would appreciate your reading my posts in their entirety before making unfounded conclusions. I have stated that I have a Jeep that I use for offroading. Nowhere have I stated that I won't buy an SUV for urban use. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. What I do believe in is "To each his own".....again, as long as it is within legal parameters. I believe in letting the free market decide whether someone drives an 800 or an S Class or a Landcruiser. And WRT emission norms, governments are making them stricter all the time. Bharat stage IV norms are excellent, no vehicle which is unnecessarily polluting can cell in India.
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How many road trips do we make with more than 5 people with us continuously? And any modern sedan with a decent boot has enough space for the luggage for such a trip.
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I don't know how you define comfort, but my Honda City doesn't have the space to carry 5 adults & their luggage in comfort. Neither does my C220 sedan. For the record, we are 6 in the immediate family. And for those times when a 12 - 13 kpl highway SUV is carrying 6 passengers, well, it works out more enviro-friendly than two 15 kpl sedans carrying 3 each, WOT?
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For marriage parties, you always have legions of Innova cab services available everywhere.
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Similarly, we can all ride around on mopeds and rent out a sedan when we need to travel outstation. After all, 90% of the sedans out there are not using their boot 90% of the time!
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Originally Posted by n.devdath As far as the Skoda subject is concerned it is certainly debatable as quite a few of us at the forum have had issues, yet the Laura continues to sell like hot cakes. |
Please get your facts in order. The Laura is NOT selling like hot cakes. It has lost out on sales & market share over the past 12 months. Refer to the sales analysis threads for more information.
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos Depends on what SUV is being compared to what Sedan. Is a scorpio safer than say a corolla or civic? Absolutely no!
However is a CRV/Outlander/Captiva safer than a Civic/Corolla? Probably yes. |
Absolutely. All things being equal - in terms of modernity, safety rating & safety equipment - an SUV is the safer in a crash with a sedan. Think M Class versus C Class. Or Landcruiser versus Corolla!