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25th August 2009, 17:43 | #151 | |
BANNED Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bangalore
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The idea is about what you mentioned, buy your vehicle as per your use. | |
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25th August 2009, 17:47 | #152 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
So let the ghost lie and discuss on the original topic on safety. And if that's done as well, let us give this thread some rest as I'm tired refreshing | |
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25th August 2009, 17:49 | #153 | |
BHPian | @Devdath : This discussion is pointless because i need an S.U.V badly atleast till there are better roads in Bangalore and the road conditions to kerala improve.Then probably i would like to be known as the "Monk who sold his Safari". Untill then please let me enjoy my ride.There are more significant issues today rather than having a debate on S.U.V vs Sedan.This is a car enthusiast forum and we have a right to choose the car we love,just like any other choice you make in life.I respect your opinions.They have academic value and i certainly appreciate them.But practically i do not have any other alternative.I have mentioned that every other car will scrape on the roads i travel.I am a person who likes fast cars.The reason i went for S.U.V is because i need it and i cannot afford two cars.Thankfully i have a fuel efficient,comfortable car that can double up for city use as well.I am leaving now.Gotta ride back home.Reclaiming my life!!! Quote:
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25th August 2009, 19:11 | #154 | |||||||
Distinguished - BHPian | Wow, this was one set of rapid-fire posts in a thread if I have ever seen one! Quite a battle... err... debate we have going here! Quote:
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Last edited by SS-Traveller : 25th August 2009 at 19:14. | |||||||
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25th August 2009, 19:39 | #155 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Team-BHP Support | Quote:
But what I am really surprised about is that you are still harping on about "affordable SUVS" when it is very obvious that they are NOT guzzlers. Forget the law of averages, its a simple number = 10 kpl. What is so hard to get? Instead of reiterating, here is my previous post: Quote:
So why stop at sedans? Why not advocate 3 cylinder FE hatchbacks to everyone? And the reason that the example was brought in, was that India is NOT the only contributor to global warming. Nor are v6s - V8s miniscule around the world. By itself, that V8 sedan is as much, if not more, of a pollutant than the Safari Dicor. Quote:
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And yes, the original argument was about SUVs running in the cities. Well, we do see more partially used MUVs (in capacity) than SUVs in the city. Probably a good time to apply the law of averages that you speak about, since MUVs outsell SUVs by 10:1. It is a FACT that we see more empty MUVs than SUVs, yet no one has a thing against them! Talk about shooting with your eyes shut. Additional food for thought : MUVs like the Innova & Xylo have substantially large percentages of private buyers. Quote:
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The point : Too many ifs & buts. I repeat : ANY car is a menace in the wrong hands. Quote:
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Last edited by GTO : 25th August 2009 at 20:27. Reason: Removing extra smilie | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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25th August 2009, 22:56 | #156 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
BANNED Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bangalore
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Not double standards, it is simple, the law of averages again. There can never be the same number of LCs as the "affordable SUVs", at least in the near future. But the increase in the number of "affordable SUVs" in the cities and not being need based can create greater issues on all fronts. Quote:
They are gas guzzlers when they are purchased inspite of having other options which could satisfy the need of those buyers who need not have bought an SUV. Quote:
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AND: SUVs are a greater menace when compared to cars on the same platform. It has been proven and all of us know it. Please accept the obvious truth. Quote:
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For the gas guzzler thing, pl read my post again. Quote:
And yes, your fav Govt permits it to move on the roads with a valid PUC certificate, so had I been like you, I would have used it daily and would have defended my use based on your "Democracy" definitions. Quote:
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See hatchback point again. Buy the car you need. Moreover, you "use your cars till they fall apart right?" So I m really not sure how many of your cars are within the norms still. Quote:
And yes, let me sum up my points once again. 1. Buying a car should be a desicion based on requirements and social and environmental considerations. 2. SUVs purchases which can be avoided can easily,if avoided, in the long term, ease our traffic, increase road safety and reduce pollution. 3. Buying an SUV when a car can do the job more efficiently makes the SUV a gas guzzler. 4. Not buying the car you need is not being advocated here. It is about identifying your need and then buying the car. 5.All of us know that India is a democracy. But democracy doesnt mean doing what we like just because the law is lax. 6. Understanding our social and environmental responsibility is not becoming China and we know it very well. 7. Last but not the least, I am no one to force my opinion on anyone and neither does anyone else have that right. This is a public forum and discussions need to be focused on getting solutions and thinking realisitically. 8. GTO, the game still stands closed as there are, like you said, more hatchbacks and sedans on the road than SUVs. I m sure you know this. Imagine replacing all of them with SUVs....you get the scene right?? I will end my talk here as there is no point in trying extending it further. All of us are aware of what needs to be and can be done to our society and environment. We have been seeing and hearing enough consequences of not agreeing to the fact that our environment and resources have already been overused. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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25th August 2009, 23:15 | #157 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kolkata
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| devdath, the beauty about living in India is that we have freedom.. Freedom to choose what I WANT (not NEED). If I want to travel alone, on congested city streets in a 5 metre, V6, petrol SUV, I can, and no law, no government and no individual has any right to point a finger. All the government can (and should) do is to raise taxes of guzzlers, which they are doing. I think the government should raise road tax for high emmision vehicles, irrespective of whether they are MUVs, or hot hatches. p.s. I do my bit for the environment, by running one of the cleanest and greenest manufacturing setups possible in my line of work, even though no norms require me to do so. |
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26th August 2009, 08:36 | #158 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune
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To an earlier post, it is not just Japan, in most of Western Europe, including the UK, large SUVs are on the decline. To those who would jump up and say, show me the statistics, I haven't any to show. I read, and when I visit these places, I talk to people from different places that tell me these things. One of the reasons for that decline is the appreciation all around of the pressures on the environment, and increase in awareness all around of the kind that leads to a lot of finger pointing, from people whose opinions I respect. For the most part, it is peer pressure that works a lot better than legislation. In some parts of the world, people in large SUVs get honked at. Wouldn't work here And people are people, not always easily understood. Logically, they should also honk at the RRs etc., but they don't. | |
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26th August 2009, 08:50 | #159 |
BHPian | Devdath, In that case all sedans which offer mileage less than 10 in city should be banned from Indian Roads 1)SX4 2)Honda City 3)Lancer 4)Cedia 5)Verna Petrol 6)Ford fiesta 1.6 7)Fiat Adventure 8)Fiat Petra 9)Toyota Corolla 10)Honda Civic 11)Baleno etc(And all out of production cars) Hatchbacks 1)Palio 1.6 2)Opel Corsa Banning these cars will kill the Car enthusiast community.There would be no need for a Team-BHP in that scenario.Would that keep you happy? Last edited by freewheelburnin : 26th August 2009 at 08:52. |
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26th August 2009, 09:05 | #160 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bangalore
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If we are really serious about environment we need to stop burning of grabage , mixing organic and inorganic waste and emissions of NOX , SO2 and CO by old vehicles , autos and 2 Wheelers rather then worrying about far and few SUV. US/Europian definition of SUV is quite different then our definition and even Korean / Japanese definition. Ford F150 , Dodge RAM , Landrover defender etc. can not be compared to what passes off as SUV on Indian road. Perhaps USA would do a great service to entire huminity if they change defination of SUV in line with India rather then replacing them with still oil guzzling Cars. PS : In USA 28 Miles per gallon approx 100 BHP Hyundai ( under test conditions) is described as Fuel sipper. Translating to KM / Liter this is 11.83 KM / Liter so a 140 BHP Tata Safari which gives 14+ on open highway and 10.5 in crowded cities is an fuel smeller. and small cars with 17 - 18 km / liter are just fuel lookers as per US terminology. | |
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26th August 2009, 09:30 | #161 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore
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Infractions: 0/1 (4) | if the whole world were to work only on "need based" principle and NOT "want based" principle, then we would have the global warming crisis, the destruction of the rain forests, the killing of wildlife, the need for War and Terrorism etc. Boss - all this is Utopia. Sorry, but life is all about playing the ball as it lies. Circumstances need to be handled as they arise. Nothing anyone may say, is really going to change someone else's mind once it is made up. And now, frankly, dont you think this thread is rambling on and on with no end in sight? |
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26th August 2009, 10:30 | #162 | ||||
Senior - BHPian | Devdath, you should actually go through all your posts again (on this thread) and check out the number of times you've evaded giving a direct reply (possibly because you had no answer) and ended up with below - Quote:
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If your posts actually sounded like you meant the above, I don't think anyone here would have had a problem. After all its a free country. | ||||
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26th August 2009, 10:39 | #163 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
I think you hit the nail right on the head there. | |
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26th August 2009, 10:47 | #164 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune
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| Since this is a subject of car safety, these two from a recent book I have read are not totally OT - and things to mull over in a more light hearted vein: 1. The most effective car safety device would be a dagger mounted on the steering wheel, aimed at the driver. The incentive to drive safely would be quite high. 2. Head injuries make up half of the country's traffic injury costs in some studies. So, helmets, cheaper and more reliable than side impact airbags, would make a lot more sense. A crazy idea, but so were airbags once. The first is quoted in jest. |
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26th August 2009, 10:58 | #165 |
Senior - BHPian | Oh man ! This is one heated thread...on a lighter note, I think I've got the perfect vehicle in my garage, a Ford Fusion. A mix of sedan, hatch and SUV Now I know what ford was thinking ! lol ! |
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