[jaymanrides18]

Hello BHPians! I've been riding off road since a few years and racing for a major chunk of that time. In that time, I've come across some bizarre gear selections people make for this genre of riding. From wearing street boots, touring jackets to chunky road riding gloves.
I'd wanted to make a video piece focusing on gloves for off roading, I hope it helps some of you who are unsure about what to get. For those of you familiar, would love your feedback!

https://youtu.be/QsgNe9RFUfI

[n_aditya]

Looking for recommendations on a pair of full size riding boots with no laces.

I previously used Sidi Vertigo Air for over six years and it served me very well.

My shoe size is UK-8 and the Sidi Vertigo Air in EU 43 size was a good fit. When it was due for replacement, I got a pair of Sidi Fusion in the same size.

Unfortunately, the Fusion boots were a tight fit and my little toes used to get crushed and hurt terribly over long rides. My last ride from Goa to Bangalore was painful and I had to stop every now and then to ease the pain in my little toes. Had to take them off during my lunch stop as the pain was unbearable. I sold them off on olx/quikr a few weeks back and now need to get a new pair of boots. My budget is capped at 15-16k.

Please share your recommendations. Thanks in advance.

[shyamg28]

Bought the RS TAICHI Drymaster Compass WP Riding Gloves. Three of us picked it up together from 6KIOM, Bengaluru. Cost INR 5999.











To be fully honest with you, they are not a great fit. Either some have a longer pinky, or longer index finger. And ingress as well isn't the best. All said, they keep hands warm when needed, or pure plain dry, when it pours. Tested already

Also picked up RE Trailblazer Gloves. They cost 2k but I got the usual discount they offer at the store, picked it up for 1800.
Amazing value according to me. Really light, snug fit and airy as hell. Although, do note, these don't have any impact protection.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by shyamg28

Bought the RS TAICHI Drymaster Compass WP Riding Gloves. Three of us picked it up together from 6KIOM, Bengaluru. Cost INR 5999.

To be fully honest with you, they are not a great fit. Either some have a longer pinky, or longer index finger. And ingress as well isn't the best. All said, they keep hands warm when needed, or pure plain dry, when it pours. Tested already

In wet conditions, do you find the grip friction enough with this material? I find my RE Intrepid gloves slipping a bit on grip puppies. Hence, I always prefer leather palm for WP gloves!

[shyamg28]

Originally Posted by surjaonwheelz

In wet conditions, do you find the grip friction enough with this material? I find my RE Intrepid gloves slipping a bit on grip puppies. Hence, I always prefer leather palm for WP gloves!

I don't use Grip Puppies, so on the stock grips, these work well. I have near similar feel and friction as my regular gloves.
In fact, I just confirmed with the other friend who uses the same gloves and has the Grip Puppies - zero issues!

By the way, how have the Intrepid gloves been so far?

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by shyamg28

By the way, how have the Intrepid gloves been so far?

They're good for the price! In addition, they double up for winter gloves. It simply has a plastic sheet between the layers of the gloves, hence its 100% waterproof, windproof.

One problem of loosing grip when wet as I stated above. Secondly, the upper material absorbs some water in the rains when wet, making the gloves heavier till you squeeze out the water!

I don't recommend these to anyone, instead one should go for the Raida AqDry gloves on a budget. It has leather palm and better coverage overall.

Ride safe,
surjaonwheelz

[Karthik.guru]

Greetings folks!
I was recently in the market for some riding gear and was only aware of basic terms such as CE Level 1 and Level 2. I had a total budget of 10k and wanted the best protection I could find in that price range. Narrowed down to a Tarmac Drifter II jacket and the Royal Enfield Carapace Riding Denim as both of them offered CE Level 2 protection. Being my first set of riding jacket and bottoms, I immediately dismantled them both to have a closer look. Upon removing the armour from their respective pockets, it seemed I had found hieroglyphics on the armour!. Being a researcher by trade, I couldn't help but dig deeper into CE labels and rating terminologies and wanted to share my findings here. I have tried my best to corroborate each piece of information from at-least 2 sources.

TLDR: its complicated but you get what you pay for, and always take a closer look.

CE (Conformité Européene) or European Conformity is a globally accepted standard which covers personal protective equipment (PPE). CE Tested, CE Rated and CE Approved are three different types of certifications and should not be interchanged.
CE Tested - one or multiple parts of the garment tested by the manufacturer as per CE standards
CE Rated - one or multiple parts of the garment tested by certified labs
CE Approved - multiple parts of the garment tested by certified labs

Personally, I found it difficult to understand the difference between CE Rated and CE Approved, since judging by the definition there must be some overlap between the two. More importantly, from what I understand, CE Certified can mean any of these. This presents a clear opportunity for a little marketing trickery. But how much can this affect the safety aspects of the gear? I do not know. I did not look into enforcement by CE of their standards particularly for CE Tested gear. However, I would imagine that manufactures follow these standards diligently since any infraction must have severe legal repercussions, not to mention the potential loss of life.

Still, pretty easy to understand so far, right? Keep going.

Within these ratings are various standards;
EN13634 relevant for boots
EN12594 relevant for gloves
EN13595 and EN17092 relevant for jackets and pants
And lastly, EN1621 which covers impact protectors which can cut across the above.
Please note that this nomenclature is followed by a ":year" which refers to the year in which the standard was updated (they are required to be updated every few years). Naturally the most recent one is the best. For example, EN1621-1:2012 means that the standard EN1621-1 updated as of 2012. I have ignored the year for most of the article in order to keep the jargon to a minimum.

For the sake of brevity we’ll only go into the standards relevant to motorcycle jackets and pants.

Now, before we even begin, there is a need to distinguish between professional and leisure use. Professional use-case refers to any profession that requires the use of motorcycles (i.e. someone who delivers letters, parcels or other small freight; the transport of passengers by motorcycle; emergency medical treatment; or vehicle breakdown support). Leisure is everything else, which includes the sort of riding most people reading this would partake in (including commuting!). Now, lets start deconstructing.

EN13595
Implemented in 1994, this was developed and regulated for garments meant for professional use and is slide tested. However, since it was intended only for professional use, the industry ignored it for many years and supplied riding gear which did not necessarily conform to these standards arguing that most motorcycle riders fall under the “leisure” category. After years of deliberation, the next standard was developed.

EN17092: Implemented in 2017, this standard was developed specifically for the “leisure” use-case of motorcycles and already sees more use than EN13595. These garments are tested for abrasion, tear strength, seam strength, dimensional stability (how it holds up after sustained washes) and innocuousness (safety/hazard of chemicals used in construction). These garments are then classed from AAA to C, AAA being the safest.


The CE labels for these are also pretty straight forward with only 3 sections; a pictogram at the top that depicts that the garment is meant for motorcycles, the class rating in the middle and the certification standard at the bottom. Like the others, EN17092 also has several sub-categories, 5 in total, i.e. EN17092-2 to 6. However, a consumer friendly move by CE was to keep each class unique to each sub-category, so as a consumer, you need only look at the class of the garment and maybe the year within the standard. That is,
EN17092-2 = AAA -> protection against impacts AND abrasion (highest level of protection)
EN17092-3 = AA -> protection against impacts AND abrasion (ideal for touring)
EN17092-4 = A -> protection against impacts AND abrasion (suitable for urban riding WITH impact protectors)
EN17092-5 = B -> protection against abrasion ONLY (suitable for urban riding WITHOUT impact protectors)
EN17092-6 = C Over(CO)/ Under(CU) -> impact protection by one or more impact protectors ONLY

Unsurprisingly, in my search for affordable riding gear (5-6k per garment), I have found no mention of this rating anywhere. However, while researching for this article, I came across a few jackets in that price range from some manufacturers who claim to be AA Certified. But I suspect some marketing trickery as I’ve mentioned earlier. Naturally, I will not be naming said manufacturers as I am not 100% certain of my suspicions. I tried to trace back their licensing documents but to no avail. I suppose it will take a much sharper mind than mine to crack that nut. Moving on.

EN1621
Sounds familiar? Rightly so. It refers to the impact protectors used in most jackets from generic brands all the way to top of the shelf gear. So when you read “Level 2 Jacket” or “Level 2 Pants”, it means that the impact protectors used in the jacket are Level 2 and it is no comment on the garment’s performance against abrasion or tear.
This standard has 3 sub-categories,
EN1621-1 Refers to limb protectors.
EN1621-2 Refers to spine protectors.
EN1621-3 Refers to chest protectors.
Impact protectors are rated based on how much force from an impact they transmit to the user, based on which they are rated at either Level 1 or Level 2. But what does that mean? Instead of going into how much kN of force they transmit (which varies between each sub-category of protectors), the key takeaway is that Level 2 protectors are roughly twice as good as Level 1. Please note that there are also EN1621-4 & 5 which refer to air-vests but since they are rare in our market, I have not covered them.

Managed to follow so far? Awesome. Now come the hieroglyphics !😛

Each impact protector has a label which looks something like this.



Above this label is usually the name of the manufacturer and below it is the certification standard it conforms to. The nomenclature for 1, 3, 4 and 5 are common between the three sub-categories of impact protectors.
1- A pictogram which depicts that the protector is intended for motorcycle use. Other possibilities are snowmobiles, gardening, medical use etc
3- Denotes that the impact protector has been validated for temperatures of -10°C. If blank, then it has not been validated for -10°C.
4- Denotes that the impact protector has been validated for temperatures of +40°C. If blank, then it has not been validated for +40°C
5- States whether the impact protector is level 1 or level 2.

2- This gets a bit complicated as it is different for limb, spine and chest protectors. We will cover them one by one

For limb and chest protectors, it is in the following format with two variables;
(x) TYPE (y)

Variable x
S - shoulder
E - elbow
H - hip
K - knee
L - front of leg below knee (Upper and Middle Tibia) (used for leg guards)
KP - knuckles (used only for gloves)
C - chest (i.e. the protector is a single piece)
DC - divided chest (i.e. the protector is in 2 pieces)

Variable y
This one is pretty straight forward with only 2 possibilities:-
TYPE A - the protector has reduced coverage for specialised applications
TYPE B - the protector has normal coverage

Some protectors are designed to be interchangeable or perform multiple functions, in which case they will read with a ‘+’ in the middle. For example,
S+E+K TYPE A = the protector can be used for EITHER shoulders, elbows or knees and has reduced coverage
K+L TYPE B = the protector is for the knee AND front of the leg and has full coverage (used for leg guards)

For spine protectors, there are only 3 possibilities for section 2 of the pictogram,
B or FB - indicates that the protector covers the entire back (central back and scapulae)
CB - indicates that the protector covers central back only
L or LB - indicates that the protector covers the lower back only
Spine protectors also should ideally be chosen based on the proportions/size of its user. As such the label also has a large image depicting the ideal waist to shoulder dimensions (which is essentially the length of their back).
For Example, this is a Central Back protector ideal for someone with a waist to shoulder dimension of 49-52 cm.




Conclusion
The nomenclature behind riding gear can get pretty confusing unless you spend days researching every term you find. IMHO this is mainly due to the fact that motorcycle gear is covered under PPE which is a very long list of garments that need to be certified for a multitude of specialised applications. With the advent of EN17092 in 2017, things have already gotten much easier for consumers based on what I have come across. I expect the same to trickle down to lower price ranges soon as well.

Personally, I found that the protectors on my newly purchased jacket are not tested for temperatures over 40°C but they are tested for -10°C. Which is strange considering that it is a mesh jacket meant to be worn during Indian summers. I also found that the back protector isn’t temperature tested at all! But I suppose you get what you pay for. Would I have still bought it had I known this before buying? Maybe not, might have looked at slightly more expensive gear just for that T+ label.

Hope I’ve helped you understand this realm a bit better and thank you for reading. <3

Cheers!

References
1. FortNine Youtube Channel - Awful & Awesome Motorcycle Gear - How to Spot the Difference
2. FortNine Youtube Channel -Best Beginner Motorcycle Gear – What Do You Really Need?
3. https://www.bikesrepublic.com/featur...otection-mean/
4. https://www.motorcyclegear.com/info_...explained.html
5. https://www.revitsport.com/us_en/lea...certification/
6. https://ridermagazine.com/2019/07/29...apparel-armor/
7. https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...ear-ce-ratings

[R.Haree.N]

Thanks @Karthik.guru for the detailed explanation. It would help people planning to get their next riding(safety) apparel.

Would you mind sharing the gear you ended up buying along with the source?.

Happy Motoring!.

[neochanger]

Originally Posted by Karthik.guru

Would I have still bought it had I known this before buying? Maybe not, might have looked at slightly more expensive gear just for that T+ label.

That’s the usual thing. The more you research about anything you’re going to buy, you come across gimmicks, subtleties and get to know about the “real thing” and then it obviously goes towards more and more expensive purchase. But you are now more convinced than ever for the extra price and likely to end up paying more for that “certification” or this “label”. This happens with me all the time. Sometimes I think that blessed are those who neither do this kind of deep research nor lured into buying expensive for mental satisfaction. But are they?

[Ikran]

Thanks for sharing. This is quite insightful.

[ishan12]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoDK6b_v8JY

Found this quite informative video on the topic.

[Karthik.guru]

Originally Posted by R.Haree.N

Thanks @Karthik.guru for the detailed explanation. It would help people planning to get their next riding(safety) apparel.

Would you mind sharing the gear you ended up buying along with the source?.

Happy Motoring!.

I'm glad my days of research could be useful to more than just myself!
I Bought the Royal Enfield Carapace Riding Denim L XY-2 from Amazon (for next day delivery since I needed it the very next day and no stores in my City had them in stock) and the Tarmac Drifter II Jacket from Bachoo Motors directly (who were kind enough to ship the jacket by air so I could collect it the next day).
I initially intended to post a quick review about the two but what started as a review turned into a long post on understanding CE certifications !

Originally Posted by neochanger

But you are now more convinced than ever for the extra price and likely to end up paying more for that “certification” or this “label”. This happens with me all the time. Sometimes I think that blessed are those who neither do this kind of deep research nor lured into buying expensive for mental satisfaction. But are they?

Well personally I'd rather pay more and know what I'm buying than be blessed with ignorant satisfaction
For instance in this particular case I had 2 requirements, budget and protection. I did not know about T+ label so I was completely happy getting a decent jacket within my hard budget of 5K, but I would've preferred paying another 1000 rupees for that T+ label, which AFAIK is available with other brands in the 5.5 to 6K price bracket.
I mean if it was missing a T- certification I wouldn't have cared since that is not my use case, but T+ is relevant to most of my riding!

[katsumoto]

Any personal experience or reviews about DSG race pro v2 (gloves/jacket and pant) ? I got a quote for about 25k for all 3 from soul riders HBR layout, Bangalore.

[TN20CQ5187]

Thanks for the very interesting and a detailed post on the certifications. I have been noticing these certification stickers whenever I buy some gear. And I have always wanted to know more about it, and even in this google age, where everything is available at the press of a button, I was lazy enough to do the research by myself. :-P

[SG_pegasus]

Originally Posted by Karthik.guru

Being a researcher by trade, I couldn't help but dig deeper into CE labels and rating terminologies and wanted to share my findings here. I have tried my best to corroborate each piece of information from at-least 2 sources.

Thank you Karthik, for this greatly, informative post. I have been one of those few who have often found myself questioning on what these very symbols mean, and though I made some headway the sheer effort involved to decode the technicalities were enough to dissuade me leaving the lingering thought of how easily manufacturers can mislead a gullible customer.

While I have used a certain Indian brand for the longest time (until recently I owned four of their riding jackets), it was not some weeks back that I went exploring what more renowned international brands had to offer, which are also infamous for pricing their products quite usuriously. It was partly driven by curiosity but also an eagerness to find out if there is something lighter and better available out there, and if so, how much better.

Suffice to say, the overall experience was telling!

These were all AA rated CE jackets and pants (aside from their armour, which in certain cases had to bought separately) and the fit and finish of these jackets were top-notch. In fact, the titanium mesh that few of those summer jackets adorned was something from a different planet and felt nothing close to what we are generally used to. But most importantly, the gear felt light - measurably light, with all the liners and trying it on gave a feeling of robustness like no other.

Now I do not know if those jackets commanding a premium of 3x-5x is justified, compared to what we are used to paying Indian brands, but there was a difference in the touch and feel - a huge one almost leaving me feeling invincible in my head. Yes, there is a significant premium to be paid no doubt, but in the end perhaps it is worth it. In your words - "...you get what you pay for..."!

The only challenge now is that the thought of going back to the Indian-made gear is a heavier weight to shoulder.