[harit]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

So are their any records of this car being raced either in india or abroad that such a mod could have been made to increase the power output ? That could help solving the mystery.

What is the mystery? Car is a 630, not 680. Mysterious rumours abound, consider it solved.

Cheers harit

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by wasif

Why don't you talk to the owner as you live in the same general area

I don't know him personally although you are right, its the same General Area. I don't think he would like a stranger meeting him or calling him up and then asking him about his car. There are many people who are reguler posters who i am sure know the owner. Incase i do happen to meet him i will definately ask him.

Originally Posted by sat

I can assure you the car was never raced in India. This was told to me by the 1st owners wife, late rajmata Bhinga, wonderful lady with a super sense of humour, the car then went to her brother the late Rajadhiraj of Shahpura in the early 50's. Shahpura was keen on motor racing, he did visit UK several times in the 30's. Drove ERA's and brm, a few hill climbs, the family still have a wonderful collection of books & 16mm b&w film from that era.

I have seen a letter from mercedes benz, Germany, which the current owner should have, written in the early 80's which clearly said that the car was manufactured in 1928.

I am sure its a Model K chassis with a S block engine, with a slightly narrower bore, 6740cc instead of the standard S engine capacity of 6789cc
single carb instead of two.

I wonder why mercedes mated a slightly toned down version (single carb & slightly narrower bore) of the S engine on a model K chassis. Perhaps this was a cheaper than the 1928 S.



harit,

this is true, in a letter from the early 80's, Mercedes Benz did mention that records were destroyed during the war. I think we have the Lancaster B 1 bombers to blame ...

I need to find the negative roll, I did take several photos, remember taking a photograph of the plate/label with engine, chassis nos etc. The small metal plate on left side near the large mounting lug of the engine. They should be easy to spot when you are looking at the left side of the engine.

MERCEDES
DAIMLER MOTOREN GESSELLSCHAFT
NO 68617

Below the dash on the board which separates the engine bay & dash board.

DAIMLER BENZ AKTIENGESSELLESCHAFT
WERKUNTERDRAHEIM

MOTOR NO 68617 BEST NO MOT. 1391
WAGEN NO 35445 BEST NO WAG 1392
COM. NO. 41346 WAG-GEW NO.
HUBRAUM 6740 LEISTUNG PS 100/180

Originally Posted by harit

What is the mystery? Car is a 630, not 680. Mysterious rumours abound, consider it solved.

Cheers harit

Sir,

What are the facts are figures we have to say that this car is a 630 and not a 680.?What about all the information that has been given above about the various serial numbers and the location of the plates on the car ? Why don't we present the facts that are there on the car rather than go by rumours and hear say information.

[harit]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Sir,
What are the facts are figures we have to say that this car is a 630 and not a 680? What about all the information that has been given above about the various serial numbers and the location of the plates on the car ? Why don't we present the facts that are there on the car rather than go by rumours and hear say information.

Sirjee, that car IS a 630. If she were to be a 680, then the international classic & vintage car press would have featured her a couple of times. And at the Cartier event she may even have tied for the car of the show with the Delahaye. You see, an attempt was made to project her as a 680 which did not succed, and there are many who know about this.
We do not need to present anything, you have to have a network and pick up sound bites to get a full picture. Believe me, there is much more info out there than what people post. Take it up, ask around, learn to judge who speaks the truth, boy you have a long way to go.
But I will always respect your enthusiasm, it is genuine, just need a bit of discretion and direction.
Way to go.
Cheers harit

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by harit

Sirjee, that car IS a 630. If she were to be a 680, then the international press would have featured her a couple of times. And at the Cartier event she may even have tied for the car of the show with the Delahaye. You see, an attempt was made to project her as a 680 which did not succed, and there are many who know about this.
We do not need to present anything, you have to have a network and pick up sound bites to get a full picture. Believe me, there is much more info out there than what people post. Take it up, ask around, learn to judge who speaks the truth, boy you have a long way to go.
But I will always respect your enthusiasm, it is genuine, just need a bit of discretion and direction.
Way to go.
Cheers harit

Hmm have to take that now since you have given quite a valid reason Sir.

Would be glad if you could give me some direction as well.

Off topic - Still awaiting your phone call.

[Cargaze]

Hi,
I could find an old photo, which has been described as follows:
Mercedes - 1926, 630K, 33/180 , 61/4 Litre, Owner Mr C H Watson, Tata Nagar.
Does this info help or ring a bell

[wbd8779]

Originally Posted by Cargaze

Hi,
I could find an old photo, which has been described as follows:
Mercedes - 1926, 630K, 33/180 , 61/4 Litre, Owner Mr C H Watson, Tata Nagar.
Does this info help or ring a bell

This is UPS 954 , which i believe is a part of the Mallya Collection now . Is the photograph dated Cargaze.

[wasif]

Its apparently the Mallya car ...the Delhi car is UPF 105. Interestign that they both are so alike and share teh same state's reg numbers

[Cargaze]

The photo is undated, however I,m made to understand belongs to soemwhere of the early 70's.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Cargaze

The photo is undated, however I,m made to understand belongs to soemwhere of the early 70's.

Yes this would sometime around that going by the ponton visible in the pic.

[Star man]

Originally Posted by harit

Attached is another 630 which is in New Zealand, shown on the site of Hans Compter. Enjoy!
About this being a 680, well it not. Period. If you were aware of the discussions going on at the Cartier event, you would know about the situation. And the matter would have been cleared up long ago. As a 630. Somehow this question keeps coming up. I also happened to chat with the new owner about this.
A few years ago the story circulating was that Mercedes Benz did not have the records of this series, so they could not confirm the history.
I believe that the car had a lot of mechanical problems and was not working for years. The aluminium engine was seeping oil as the block or whatever had become porous. But hats of to the guy who got her to work, I believe that it was Mr. Tutu Dhawan. I was told that even some guys from Mercedes had come to Delhi to see the car.
The only point which disturbs is the mention of
HUBRAUM 6740 LEISTUNG PS 100/180
on the label. But if it was so clear, then why is there a confusion even today? And not only among us on this forum, but even at international events.
There is much more to it than meets the eye, including the present state of the engine number.
If getting a certificate was so easy, then why was it not obtained before?
The puzzle is not only about the identity, but also about the handling of the identification process. So let us keep on wondering

Cheers harit

Harit, this car wasn't in New Zealand, the picture was taken here in Brisbane ,Queensland ,Australia many years ago and depicts my present employer,Mr Wolfgang Grodd.It was Wolf who built that car as a SSK replica using the derelict remains of a SS tourer he had discovered on farm in New South wales,almost 40 years ago. He had the remains in his workshop,Sleeping beauties,http://sleepingbeauties.com.au/ for many years when someone asked if they were for sale. Wolf asked what he wanted them for and the prospective buyer answered that he was thinking of using them to build a SSK... Wolf said,well actually that is a great idea,I will do it myself.. ha ha. The car was driven with gusto all over Australia and today it is in Europe . It wasn't a matter of just building the car as replica though because it was just a engine,gearbox,a really rough chassis and the back axle. Everything else had to be sourced from around the world at great expence.
The car was sold new to the Resches Family who ran a succesful brewery In Sydney .

[sibot]

Holy lord I just went through some 16 pages of gripping mystery of the car being a 630 or 680K. It's amazing the vast amount of knowledge fellow members possess, it is truly astonishing.

The mystery has been dug into meticuluously by the forum detectives enthusiasts. I respect and applaud every one's contribution. But I have to admit, being someone who is not well versed in vintage cars and being a neutral observer who has read through every bit of the thread with keenness of a child reading a mystery novel, the car seems to be a sort of an enigma.

Being a lawyer by profession, I'd have to go with the facts stated by sat. I respect Harit's indepth knowledge of the vintage car scene in India and I can safely state that his knowledge in the domain is unparallel on the forum, but relying on what we call 'hearsay' in law to conclude the car is a 630 would be wrong.

I guess the famous Delhi based lawyer being spoken of in the earlier pages is Mr. Mukul Rohatgi, now Attorney General of India, very well known for his passion of collecting vintage cars.

[KartikeyaL]

Originally Posted by sibot

I guess the famous Delhi based lawyer being spoken of in the earlier pages is Mr. Mukul Rohatgi, now Attorney General of India, very well known for his passion of collecting vintage cars.

Off topic, isn't this a great opportunity for the vintage car scene in India,maybe if we could get some clarification and absolute transparency on import policy, duties and also matters related to registration of imports and as well for 1000's of vehicles where no documents exist. Clearly the Attorney General can guide the GOI !

[Bulldogji]

Originally Posted by sibot

I guess the famous Delhi based lawyer being spoken of in the earlier pages is Mr. Mukul Rohatgi, now Attorney General of India, very well known for his passion of collecting vintage cars.

I think the famous Delhi lawyer talked about here is not Mukul. He is Diljeet Titus who is extremely passionate and very involved in this hobby in Delhi

[avishar]

The car that started this discussion is a 630K.There is no 680K in India and here is the information i managed to gather which hopefully clears the confusion:-
680K was actually 630K's sportscar version just for only 1.5 years 1927-mid 1928 until the SSK was launched in late 1928.During the 1928-1932 duration only about 40 SSKs were made but 680K was even rarer obviously because of only 1.5 years of production duration and it was world's most expensive sportscar.Thus less than 20 Mercedes 680 exists and thts why 680 doesnt even has a wikipedia page but 630K has called "Type 630".680K was basically enlarged engine to 6800cc from 6300cc of 630K with a lighter sportscar body which was their first supercar after daimler nd benz merged and further enlargement to to 7.0L and 7.1L for the SSK models.680K & SSK were known as "White elephants".Thus no 680K ever came to India.
Please rectify if I am wrong.Thanks in advance!