[ajay99]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

Yes, I have a 1970 manual (VW 1500/1300/1200) which mentions the same thing.
The 1200A notification was introduced only in the early 60s, to avoid confusion with the 1200cc Delux version.
The 'A' notation lasted for only a few years. Probably there was no delux 1200 manufactured after 1968. So any 1200cc Euro Beetle manufactured after 1968 would be a Std Beetle. Since there was no scope for confusion, the 'A' notation was probably officially dropped from company literature.



My 1970 manual mentions a fuel tap for the VW1200 standard Beetle.
And I have seen a 1972 Std Beetle with fuel gauge integrated in the speedo. If that was original, it would mean that the fuel tap was probably discontinued in 1971 or 1972.

BTW, I remember us having a discussion sometime ago, where I mentioned that the Std Beetle was a Euro specific thing. This turned out to be false. There was also a Canadian version of the 1200cc Std Beetle, officially known as the VW Beetle Custom.

Attachment 605392
Attachment 605393

as far as my info goes The 1200 A notation continued even in post 67 models. also the 1200 beetle was available in Australia,Far East(singapore,Indonesia), South Africa etc. althought not fully sure,I assume EURO was generic term used for European specs as distinct from US specs.
Kindly note that Australia,NZ,Canada,Singapore are all commonwealth countries with more affinity for european things (at least in the sixties)

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

Yes, I have a 1970 manual (VW 1500/1300/1200) which mentions the same thing.
The 1200A notification was introduced only in the early 60s, to avoid confusion with the 1200cc Delux version.
The 'A' notation lasted for only a few years. Probably there was no delux 1200 manufactured after 1968. So any 1200cc Euro Beetle manufactured after 1968 would be a Std Beetle. Since there was no scope for confusion, the 'A' notation was probably officially dropped from company literature.



My 1970 manual mentions a fuel tap for the VW1200 standard Beetle.
And I have seen a 1972 Std Beetle with fuel gauge integrated in the speedo. If that was original, it would mean that the fuel tap was probably discontinued in 1971 or 1972.

BTW, I remember us having a discussion sometime ago, where I mentioned that the Std Beetle was a Euro specific thing. This turned out to be false. There was also a Canadian version of the 1200cc Std Beetle, officially known as the VW Beetle Custom.

Attachment 605392
Attachment 605393

Its actually surprising to read all the above, How different each Beetles are, even when it comes to a Particular Year.

From what i've gathered, the 1200A's are too a rare offering, but my biggest challenge ahead is getting the Blaupunkt radio to work....

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by ajay99

as far as my info goes The 1200 A notation continued even in post 67 models.

I haven't seen any post-68 VW literature with any reference to the 1200A. If you have pls share.
I'm guessing here that the company may have officially dropped the 'A' notation post 1968, but it continued to be used unofficially in VW circles for the Std Beetle.

Originally Posted by ajay99

Australia,NZ,Canada,Singapore are all commonwealth countries with more affinity for european things (at least in the sixties)

Agree on the other countries, but I guess I always assumed that VW Canada adhered to US spec due to geographical proximity. I was honestly surprised to hear of the Canadian 1200 Beetle Custom. I guess the commonwealth connection makes sense though.

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Its actually surprising to read all the above, How different each Beetles are, even when it comes to a Particular Year.

Yes, the permutation and combinations are rather mind-boggling! :-)

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

From what i've gathered, the 1200A's are too a rare offering, but my biggest challenge ahead is getting the Blaupunkt radio to work....

Not enough Std Beetle owner's take the trouble of maintaining it as a Standard.
I've seen that many people upgrade to the Delux Bug parts thinking that the original part on the vehicle was a local replacement.

Pls hold on to any parts that come out of this vehicle. You never know, it just might be original VW! :-)
When I restored my 1968 Std Bug many years ago, I made the fatal mistake of misplacing the Interior Rear View Mirror since I was anyhow importing a new one. Only later did I figure out that the Std Beetle uses a different kind of mirror that is very hard to find. I finally found a reasonably priced one, last week, after 2 years of hunting !!

Reg. the Blaupunkt radio, if it's a transistor based radio, there's hope of restoring it. If it's a vacuum tube radio, forget it. Restoration cost of the radio alone would probably work out more than what you paid for the car. :-)
My uncle ran an authorised Philips Service center back in the day and I was his apprentice.

[rk206]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

I would suggest to buy a Beetle in any state, they are becoming hard to get cars off-late.....

Restoration is not difficult after that...

Originally Posted by UB_007

I do agree that buying a running bug is quick. But the feeling and satisfaction one gets after successful restoration is priceless.

All the hard work and dedication towards restoration is completely paid off when people start eyeing this BUG on the streets.
-UB

Thank You both. I like the way you say its easy restoring them. Its easy for you guys because you're experts, I am not .
I guess the next question would be how to acquire one which needs complete restoration. and secondly, how much can i expect one in ?

If I being off-topic, please do let me know what would be the right way to ask you guys these questions.

Thanks.

[rajchetan]

Pavangaru, Back with a Bang aa?

Nice Car anna.. looking forward eagerly as always.

All the best with your project.

Let me know if i can help you in any way from Vietnam, as i see a lot of Bugs in good condition here, also understand from people that VN made parts are available easily.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by rajchetan

Pavangaru, Back with a Bang aa?

Nice Car anna.. looking forward eagerly as always.

All the best with your project.

Let me know if i can help you in any way from Vietnam, as i see a lot of Bugs in good condition here, also understand from people that VN made parts are available easily.

Gurugale....Thanks. I might need few tiny bits, will let you know for sure.

Well, We have started to strip the car right now to know the extent of Rusting.. And to see NO FLOOR.

But overall, the car is in really good nick.

Engine was dismantled, will be overhauled before the end of this month.

Found the Chassis Number and Engine number of this car.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

I haven't seen any post-68 VW literature with any reference to the 1200A. If you have pls share.
I'm guessing here that the company may have officially dropped the 'A' notation post 1968, but it continued to be used unofficially in VW circles for the Std Beetle.


Agree on the other countries, but I guess I always assumed that VW Canada adhered to US spec due to geographical proximity. I was honestly surprised to hear of the Canadian 1200 Beetle Custom. I guess the commonwealth connection makes sense though.

Please see this cover of the HAYNES manual for european beetles which makes it clear that 1200 A is a deluxe version.
also1200 A designation was not used in the US versions which were always "Deluxe" anyway. Canada had 1200 Standards both in 6 volt and 12 volt versions. The 1200 A might be a Sales Department designation. The Parts Department didn't use it nor did the Service Department because there is no mention of that in any of the Factory Parts/Service manuals.

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Please see this cover of the HAYNES manual for european beetles which makes it clear that 1200 A is a deluxe version.

I do not understand why Haynes refers to it as the 1200A Deluxe Beetle, but I'd rather place my faith in VW company literature.

The attached pages from the 1966 VW 1200A manual, shows that it had the 3-spoke wheel, a single sun visor and a 2-position roof light (without door-courtesy light).
So consequently the VW 1200 would have the steering wheel with horn ring, 2 sun visors and the 3-position roof light (with door-courtesy light)

Let's assume, for a moment, that what you say is true; that the 1200A is the Delux Beetle and the 1200 is the Standard.

As a discerning customer, about to purchase a Beetle in 1966, would you purchase the VW1200A, which you say is Delux (and hence costlier) but has fewer features (as per my manual)?
Or would you buy the VW1200, which you say is Standard (and hence cheaper) but has more features?

I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by ajay99

also1200 A designation was not used in the US versions which were always "Deluxe" anyway.

No dispute here. I agree.

Originally Posted by ajay99

Canada had 1200 Standards both in 6 volt and 12 volt versions.

I had no idea. Good to know.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Well, till both you guys debate and get exhausted, i will be sitting back and enjoying the flow of whole lot of information

Well, all of 2 hours i spent searching around TheSamba.com :: Volkswagen Classifieds, photos, shows, forums, and information,

1) All matching features of a 1966
2) D Series engine number points to the 1200cc
3) Double horn grill
4) Chassis number M-codes as per Samba
5) Euro spec Bumpers
6) 3 Spoke steering wheel
7) 6 Volts dyanmo and wiring

This directed me to conclude its a 1200A-Deluxe, as per you guys observation.

Lets see what all tumbles as i proceed, but i am glad to have guys like you around.

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

3) Double horn grill

If I'm not mistaken, as per your pictures it has the hole for one horn grill (?)

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

This directed me to conclude its a 1200A-Deluxe, as per you guys observation.

I shall still stick to my story that it is a 1200A Standard! :-)

Irrespective of whether you call it a Delux or a Standard, I have mailed you a copy of the 1966 1200A, since I am unable to attach such a large file here. It might help in the restoration.

It is my sincere hope that the owner opts to restore this Beetle with as many original options and features as possible, rather than upgrading to the more common Delux options.

Especially with a marque like Volkswagen, which was famous for creating economical cars for the masses, owning and maintinaing a Standard Beetle, is a matter of pride.

Considering the small number of such Std Beetles worldwide that survive today, with all original options (i.e sans the flim-flammery of the more common delux), I hope that this beauty is brought back to her former 'standard' glory!

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

I do not understand why Haynes refers to it as the 1200A Deluxe Beetle, but I'd rather place my faith in VW company literature.

The attached pages from the 1966 VW 1200A manual, shows that it had the 3-spoke wheel, a single sun visor and a 2-position roof light (without door-courtesy light).
So consequently the VW 1200 would have the steering wheel with horn ring, 2 sun visors and the 3-position roof light (with door-courtesy light)

Let's assume, for a moment, that what you say is true; that the 1200A is the Delux Beetle and the 1200 is the Standard.

As a discerning customer, about to purchase a Beetle in 1966, would you purchase the VW1200A, which you say is Delux (and hence costlier) but has fewer features (as per my manual)?
Or would you buy the VW1200, which you say is Standard (and hence cheaper) but has more features?

I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense to me.


No dispute here. I agree.


I had no idea. Good to know.

The VW 1200 had no horn ring, only single sunvisor,and the 2 position interior light.(I have never mentioned to the contrary).I am not sure whether the 1200A had the same specs or not,
I have attached some differences between the 1200 and 1200 A.Please note that the the early 1200 had 28PCI and later (post67 ones)28 PICT carburretor,while the 1200 A had the more advanced 28PICT-1 carburretor which I assume is another pointer that 1200 A was the deluxe model.
There is a 1966 VW factory owners service manual for VW1200 and also for VW1300 + VW 1200 A models.If you have a copy of both it will help make things very clear

[PAVAN KADAM]

There are further more twists in the tale

1) No Chrome body mouldings on this car, no traces of closure of holes too
2) Has the Wolfsburg Radio - must be a premium offering those days i presume...!
3) Has curtain rods at the rear windshield ( Must be an aftermarket accessory)
4) Euro spec bumpers without overriders for a 66 raises a few doubts.

Also some pics of work in progress. Not sure, if i will be removing the floor apart from the body, as there is lot of metal corroded and might pose trouble with alignment with such an approach. The floor pans will arrive tomorrow, and i plan to finish the floor work within 2 weeks from now.

[ajay99]

another interesting piece of info which I just got is that there was a 1300 A version also in Europe.!!!

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by ajay99

I have attached some differences between the 1200 and 1200 A.Please note that the the early 1200 had 28PCI and later (post67 ones)28 PICT carburretor,while the 1200 A had the more advanced 28PICT-1 carburretor which I assume is another pointer that 1200 A was the deluxe model.

First off, I would like to request you to kindly restrict the source of information you post here to official VW company literature (at least for the scope of this discussion).

Second off, I would like to completely discredit the third-party manual that you have attached in your previous post.
The extracted page that you have posted is from the 'Scientific Publications Volkswagen Manual'



I have had the distinct displeasure of reading this manual and all I can say is that I was apalled by the misinformation and inaccuracies published in this book. To name just a few :

1. This book refers to the 36-hp, 28 PCI carb engine as the 1100cc engine, whereas it was a 1192cc engine. The 1100cc engine was in-fact the 26-hp engine used on very early Beetles (pre-1954 I think)

2. The 28 PCI carb did not come installed on any 40-hp 1200 engine. All 40-hp 1200 engine's came equipped with either the 28 PICT carb or the 28 PICT-1 carb (pls see extract #2 from the VW1200 workshop manual below)


Now, I hope to provide in this post, conclusive and irrefutable evidence vindicating my stand.

First off, I would like to quote my source : The official VW 1200 Workshop manual.

Extract #1 :




Extract #2 :



This proves that the 40-hp 1200 engine only came equipped with either the 28 PICT or the 28 PICT-1.

Originally Posted by ajay99

The 1200 A might be a Sales Department designation. The Parts Department didn't use it nor did the Service Department because there is no mention of that in any of the Factory Parts/Service manuals.

Extract #3 :
I found a reference to the 1200A in the very same official VW 1200 Service manual :



Pls double-check the above-mentioned extract.
It is a well known fact that the full-synchro gearbox was introduced in delux Beetles in 1961 along with the 40-hp 1200 engine.
The non-synchro gearbox continued to feature on the Standard Beetle for a few years more.

The above extract clearly mentions that the full-synchro gearbox was introduced in 1200A Beetles from Nov 1964.
To me, this looks like irrefutable evidence that the 1200A was in fact the Standard Beetle; coming from the official VW manual, no less.

If anyone is wondering why the 36-hp engine was referred to as the 30-hp engine in the above snippet, it's because 36-hp is the SAE rating and 30-hp is the DIN rating.

Another interesting observation from this snippet, is that the 36-hp engine was mated with the full-synchro gearbox for 2 years on the Standard Beetle as an OE fitment from VW !! i.e 1964 to 66, up until the 40-hp engine was introduced on the Std 1200A.

If you need a copy of this VW 1200 Manual, pls drop me a PM. I would be happy to share. It's too large to upload here.