[AutoIndian]

Friends need some sound advice & future course of action for one of my friends on another forum. He could not take the delivery of his New Manza Quadrajet despite making full payment, apparently due to some manipulation on the part of the dealer. Quoting below the content of his e-mail on that forum

Quote:
"I had decided to purchase a manza aura abs quadrajet, In the morning at 10.30 I went to inspect the car in workshop at Urmil motors ghaziabad. After 1 hour inspection in detail & other discussion about the features of the car it looked fine so noted down the VIN number.

Sales people told me this is April month car, the VIN number tells me this is Jan 2011 car, which means its been at the yard for 4-5 months, when I asked for the form 22 they show me a form which just mentions a VIN number & they say the car was billed to them 60 days ago & they got it in March. They deny that the VIN number tells any date of manufacturing (Strange)

I told them that the rubber parts & tyre can be malformed all this while standing in extreme heat & cold weather which even they would not repair as its not covered under warranty, the sales manager assured me that nothing of this sort is likely to happen, trust us we wont give u a car with problems.

All that discussion done I wanted to test ride the actual car which I am purchasing but they said that car cannot go out till I give the amount & the bill & insurance is done fair point.

Since rest of the things were all fine I paid in full & got the car ready for test drive before delivery at 1.30 Imagine you take the car which is made ready to deliver to the customer & the car rolls on left side clearly pointing to misalignment problem. OK we got back just from 3 kms test ride.

I asked for the PDI sheet & it was shown to me that all things have been checked & this is a minor issue will soon be done. (Does PDI ignore such glaring faults)

After 40 mins the car is taken for another test ride the same problem remains, I asked the service guy as to what has been done, he said instead of alignment we just did the wheel balancing, we came back again to sort out the problem.

After 1 hour wheel alignment is done but no print out is taken as the car does not have registration number (poor excuse) We went for a test ride the car is still steering to the left side with the steering wheel clearly seen imbalanced.

This time I took thing in my hand asked them to do the alignment in front of me & took a print out, balancing & alignment shows a good balance, we went out for a longer drive but the problem is somewhat reduces but steering to left is still happening now this is a mystery to me as to what can be the problem.

Last try we came back to workshop swapped the front left & right Tyre, went for the 5th test drive still shows the same problem. Now I am stumped & so is the service guy & the car could not be delivered today evening, I had to return bare handed after paying the full amount.

What can be the problem for car steering to the left.

1. misaligned or malformed tyre (to me they looked ok)
2.Aura abs has tubeless tyre could that be an issue if 1 tyre is not properly fitted on the rim?
3. I have asked them that they change all 4 tyre & test if it solves the issue fine else I don't want to take delivery of this 5 month old car. I will have to take another car.

What are my options, what else can I do, should I call tata helpline & lodge a complain about this?

Need urgent help & reply." Unquote

Looking forward to some valuable inputs.

[pamiboy]

Dude, Looks like this dealer is trying to sell you a lemon. Now you know why this car has been on the lot for 5 months with no takers. My simple advice: walk away from this dealer. You can see the car buying and servicing experience first hand. You don't want to have te same experience again and again. Believe me, even if they fix the steering issue temporarily its gonna come back and the dealer is likely to wash his hands off. I would never trust a dealer like this. If you have already paid for in full for a car like this, you should cut your loss and walk away. Your money will be better suited for some other car with some other dealer.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by pamiboy

Dude, Looks like this dealer is trying to sell you a lemon. Now you know why this car has been on the lot for 5 months with no takers.

Thanks mate for your advice. Will inform my friend. Hope that he is able to get a brand new car.

[Saanil]

I smell something fishy here. 5 months is a little too long for me. VIN is supposed to tell the manufacturing date of the car - if the sales people do not know that then its better you choose some other dealer. Has the vehicle been registered yet?

[AutoIndian]

My friend has finally take the delivery of his Manza. His whole experience in his own words below:

Quote:
"I requested the dealer to fit a set of old tyres but the test drive car they had was new too & had only been driven 350kms.

1. so on the 2nd day I test drove the demo car that too has this left drifting problem.

2. Then changed the tyre of my new car from the demo car but that did not solve the problem.

3.Finally reported the matter to GM of Urmil motors, he asked to get a new car from the stock yard 12 kms outside city, at the stock yard there were 11 manza for me to choose from so based on the VIN number I found that they all are similar batch & month (Jan2011) I picked up 2 cars I Myself drove back the new car which is older (serial number)than this new car billed to me. It had bridgestone tyre and does not show left drifting problem in 12 kms drive back but This drive was on a highway. The moment we reached the city area where we had been testing earlier left drifting was noticed, now I felt that when driving on highway the speed is different & in city the speed differs so it could be speed related issue.

4. I had 2 choices either take new car if I am satisfied or change to bridgestone trye, I decided to test with bridgestone tyre it was changed & alignment checked, went for the test drive with fully loaded car with 5 people just to know if weight can alter that behavior, just 500 mts drive & we still had the left drifting problem even after changing the tyre.

5.Came back & decided to cancel the car & ask for the refund, this is when almost all associated with the car & sales team gathered to know what is the issue, there were few options discussed but I put my foot down that I am not taking this car delivery.

6. GM of Urmil motors joined the discussion & asked me to come along he drove the car & explained me the same theory as you had mentioned, then asked me to drive back but somehow I was not able to get convinced with this as my disbelieving was due to this being a new car & tryes etc. I have always felt this problem when I changed only 2 front tyre but this car has all 4 new tyre. On the way back from test drive he shared his experience as an automobile engineer at airforce station maintaining the vehicles, at this point after returning to the showroom I asked myself that I have driven total 4 new cars 1. test drive of elan, 2. my own new car, 3. two cars which I picked up from the yard, they all are doing this left drifting on certain roads.

Myself being a professional have witnessed few of my own clients who find some problem in our work & we have to deal with them teaching them the facts without being overpowering, inspite of disagreement I convince them & give them options to do things their way, once they fail & acknowledge that what I said was right they come back & then feel educated. I asked myself why not trust the GM word as you also suggested the same reasoning, so I asked him for a written letter acknowledging the left drifting problem & undertake the solution to the problem if trye wear excess or the left drifting problem increase within 1500kms of drive.

He happily wrote a note on zerox copy of the bill itself & assured me that this is not a problem but a nature of new tyre before they are set to follow the contour of the road, he used those same words which you said & made the diagrams to explain the issue which would go away with time within 1000kms.

7. By this time it was already 6.30PM kind of late but they arranged the delivery & assured that any kind of problem they will promptly attend it. I finally drove the car 1 last time from the showroom at 7.25pm on 17th May. I must say that these 2 days were quite taxing on me the issue got to my nerves as I needed the car urgently but the support of this yahoo group was very much like an anchor reassuring me that I am not alone to fight this problem. The car was showing 37kms on odo when I did the PDI so the car is not driven much except that umpteen test drives to sort out this problem made the odo meter reading 105 when I finally took the car.

In the yard all the car I saw were of jan 2001 batch (based on VIN)& the one which I had was the highest serial number (last 4 digits) so no way that the car was accidental & at no time I felt that Urmil motors were trying to push this car to me, they cooperated as much as they could offered me to choose any car from the yard, normally they don't allow people in the yard but this case was exception.

Now my only question is that could this problem be due to any other reason than the new tyre, such as
1.misaligned chassis I tested 4 cars of the same batch (highly unlikely but can happen) a bad batch of cars?
2. some kind of misalignment within the steering wheel if any?
3. any thing else which I am not able to focus.

I have driven total 300kms & the car is smooth & not having any other problem as of now.

After 2 days of settling with the new car I took the car on the wrong side of the road on expressway early morning & the car is now drifting to its right. so I can safely conclude that indeed its a new trye burn-in period which will adjust to the roads, till that time I have to be careful with the steering.

Phew, its been a long tiring experience with this new car in hot summer
with temp going high as 42°C but I am hopeful that my worst fear would be soon subsided & the as car will be smoothly running. Anyone who has driven in this car feels the spaciousness in it, I will post my user experience later sometime next week."

Unquote.

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

My friend has finally take the delivery of his Manza. His whole experience in his own words below:

Quote:
"I requested the dealer to fit a set of old tyres but the test drive car they had was new too & had only been driven 350kms...."

Unquote.

Hats off to your friend , i would have backed off from the deal or took the car anyways

[ACM]

I do get a feeling that in this case "angan teda hai" or rather that the road on which your friend has been testing the car has an incline that is beyond the normal. Most warehouses are located on the outskirts of the city and the roads there are not the best.

It just does not seem possible that you would face an allignment issue with so many new cars (and that too post a specific allignment and balancing).

I also do think the dealer did indulge your friend a fair bit in testing so many of the cars and with so many tyre combinations.

It would have been hard for your friend as well as the dealership team.

[NVI2112]

Hi Guys,

One question.

Yesterday, I was at Concorde Motors, Malad and requested them for a TD of the Petrol version of Manza Elan & Linea. Since the Manza Petrol was not available just took a look at their display vehicle. One thing that struck me very odd was the stock sound system audio quality was really poor. Is this a problem with the manza stock system or was this a one off case?

[essdee1972]

Originally Posted by NVI2112

Hi Guys,

One question.

Yesterday, I was at Concorde Motors, Malad and requested them for a TD of the Petrol version of Manza Elan & Linea. Since the Manza Petrol was not available just took a look at their display vehicle. One thing that struck me very odd was the stock sound system audio quality was really poor. Is this a problem with the manza stock system or was this a one off case?

Stock sound system works OK for me probably because I normally use very low volume, more as a background hum to counter traffic noise with open windows. Try out other pieces / dealers. If you can be near Mulund / Vikhroli area, you can check out my car, too.

But if you are choosing between Manza and Linea, suggest you test both cars. Even if the engine, etc. are the same, the drive and feel are different. Linea is a better car (only I couldn't afford it )

Cheers!

[gurudutt]

Originally Posted by NVI2112

Hi Guys,

One question.

Yesterday, I was at Concorde Motors, Malad and requested them for a TD of the Petrol version of Manza Elan & Linea. Since the Manza Petrol was not available just took a look at their display vehicle. One thing that struck me very odd was the stock sound system audio quality was really poor. Is this a problem with the manza stock system or was this a one off case?

The stock sound system in both the tata siblings (Vista and Manza) is not that great, you would feel the need to change the speakers. Check if you could hear music from all the door speakers the next time you get a chance. I got a rear oval speakers on my Vista driven by an amp from my old car.

[ajay_satpute]

I received the inaugural issue of MILESTONE, a Tata Motors initiative to keep its customers abreast with all the happenings around the company. The issue isn't that exicitng, but there was one great thing that I found in the issue.

On one of the pages of the issue, I found the following text
"
GTO, Team BHP Moderator on the Manza

• Extremely neutral family sedan
• Fuel-efficient 1.3 diesel engine. Nice gearbox too
• Unreal back seat comfort. Interior space comparable to two segments higher
• Respectable level of equipment and safety kit
• Sheer value for money pricing

"

Kudos to GTO and Team BHP!!! I showed the issue to everyone at home and few of my friends, and they did realize that Team BHP IS something.

Hope the car companies follow Team BHP more seriously and give the best to the customers.

Team BHP rocks!!!


Mods: I was not sure where to post this, hence started a new thread. Please move this to appropriate place if you feel so.

[AutoIndian]

I have created a new thread on behalf of one of my friends who unfortunately could not get TBHP membership despite several attempts. He however needs expert advice from TBHP members (especially Manza owners) as he is really getting hyper now with this continuing problem & have postponed all the car accessories since he might return the car to Tata motors if this is not sorted out soon. Below is the link to the new thread. Please give your expert comments.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2373720

[Torquedo]

Fellow T-BHPian's -

I took out my friend's Manza Quadrajet (Aqua) yesterday from the showroom, I drove it for about 25-30 odd kms and had a few questions if you might help:

1) The Turbo is slated to kick in @ 1750-3000 RPM but I felt that the turbo did not kick in before 2500 RPM, has anyone on the forum felt the same?

2) There was no pin down feeling (the one which you get in Swift D, Optra and the 1.5 Verna CRDi) when the turbo kicked in, is it because the car is new and in the run - in period or should I suggest my friend to get ECU mappings checked?

3) Do the Diesel (I have owned petrols) engine's take time to settle down, as in 1000 odd kms?

I test drove the Manza before finalizing it, the turbo on the TD vehicle kicked in pretty early and had a much much better feel about it, so I am a bit worried when I drove the new one yesterday.

Another thing that I wanted to point out was:

The color that my friend had finalized was brought from the stockyard and to our shock it was a Feb make, so we had to opt for a different color.

Another case where TATA was trying to sell off an old car from the stockyard.

Thanks to T-BHP got saved.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Sridhar K]

^ My Manza's also gets a turbo boost at around 2500 rpm only. It is not as pronounced as a SWIFT/DZIRE and I feel it only when in 3rd/4th gear.

I think the actual turbo kicks in much earlier (1500 - 1700 rpm) as my engine gets more responsive from 1500 rpm onwards though the boost is felt at 2500 rpm

[rki2007]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Fellow T-BHPian's -

I took out my friend's Manza Quadrajet (Aqua) yesterday from the showroom, I drove it for about 25-30 odd kms and had a few questions if you might help:

1) The Turbo is slated to kick in @ 1750-3000 RPM but I felt that the turbo did not kick in before 2500 RPM, has anyone on the forum felt the same?

2) There was no pin down feeling (the one which you get in Swift D, Optra and the 1.5 Verna CRDi) when the turbo kicked in, is it because the car is new and in the run - in period or should I suggest my friend to get ECU mappings checked?

3) Do the Diesel (I have owned petrols) engine's take time to settle down, as in 1000 odd kms?

I test drove the Manza before finalizing it, the turbo on the TD vehicle kicked in pretty early and had a much much better feel about it, so I am a bit worried when I drove the new one yesterday.

Another thing that I wanted to point out was:

The color that my friend had finalized was brought from the stockyard and to our shock it was a Feb make, so we had to opt for a different color.

Another case where TATA was trying to sell off an old car from the stockyard.

Thanks to T-BHP got saved.

Thanks in anticipation.

Yes this is normal with many. Even my experience witness the same. The TD car which i drove showed a turbo spurt at 1800 rpm itself and the power was a boost. But ,my Manza's power is more linear and i witness the turbo at 2.2 to 2.5 K rpm and it never boosts out like the TD car. There should be some adjustments in the TD car to attract people. The same is with the Dzire too. You need not worry for the same. The linear power turbo is better than the sudden boost.

By the way what is the mileage the fellows bhpians owning Manza is getting. I very recently did a 1300km trip and i got a mileage of 15.85kmpl only. The average speed that i drove was 100-120 kmpl. So is that normal at that speed.