[rishab.k]

@ Windiesel,

I understand you have not had a very good experience with Tata A.S.S. in the past then what was it about Manza that made you go for a Tata product again ?

[windiesel]

Originally Posted by rishab.k

@ Windiesel,
I understand you have not had a very good experience with Tata A.S.S. in the past then what was it about Manza that made you go for a Tata product again ?

Hey man, the first time round you asked this Question I didn't respond because you had mixed up my comments with the guy's who responded immediately afterwards to my mail. HE seemed to have major issues with Tata's ***.
Since you've taken the trouble to ask again I'll share my exp again.
I was one of the first Indica owners way back in 2000. That time the initial non V2 cars has issues with the front suspension. Tata people were literally after me to get a free retrofit done to elevate my car(and others like me) to V2 level. That time the rumours going round were that tires will not last more that 15-20 K in an Indica. Well mine lasted for more than 50,000 KMs! I even got a clutch plate replaced under warranty when as per rules they say that clutch plates are not covered under warranty. Overall Tata's *** was as bad as maruti's. Both will take the whole day for servicing and leave half the things undone and not let you supervise the job.(may work in Japan but we indians just can't work unsupervised - personal view) Things are still the same. I just had my wife's new M-800 serviced at MASS and they first would not write all the faults I had to report in the job card and then left out some of them with 'Yeh to aisa hi hota hai sir agli bar dekh lenge'!

Hence after my free services never went to TASS again. Plenty of good mistrys outside and they cost less time and money and you can stand on their head and get things done as you want. When I sold my Indica last December it had done a lac and seven thousand klicks, it may have had all the fit and finish issues but it never let down on the road, went all over the countryside and was still giving 18kpl and not lifting any engine oil when i bid her adieu.

Now coming to the Manza. I knew that Manza was in the pipeline so did'nt go for the Dzire outright. I just did'nt like the shape, the way the rear almost touches the road with 5 people and a bootful of luggage. Moreover, just hated the cramped rear seat, me being almost 6' and wife and daughter 5'7.5'' each. If you move the driver seat fwd to make space for the rear guy then the steering column comes awkwardly between you legs and the darned thing is not adjustable. Least the boffins at Maruti could have done was to stretch the wheelbase a bit instead of just pasting a boot on a stock Swift, and give it more powerful engines. Therefore, what the unsuspecting customers are getting is just a swift with a boot with the same engines. Not so with Tata though. They have STERETCHED the vista by 50mm and given us a more spacious car which does NOT share engines with hatch. (For the record- When Tata launched the Indigo way back in 2002 they did not simply plonk the Indica engine in it but gave it something extra- A TURBOCHARGER.)

Plus Tata is always giving you user friendly things like Tilt adjustable steering, power outlet at the rear, USB port,wide opening door, a tacho, front power windows and a 2Din Music system even in the base model, a Linea spec 90bhp QJD engine that Maruti will be using in the SX-4!! Compare this list of goodies with the Dzire and you will not find it so Dzireable after all. Even 10 years ago Indica had path breaking user friendly feature like internally adjustable ORVM, Top Blued windscreen, internal antenna, child lock on rear doors etc. These feature were then found on sedans 2-3 segments up and hardly on any hatch certainly not on any maruti hatch. If I remember right the Top blued windscreen came with the Esteem 1.3 and not even the Maruti 1000 had it.

On the flip side, agreed that Tata's fit and finish is not as good as Maruti, but give me the goodies man, I can live with a few plastic parts not aligning properly or some electrical issues (which tata is notorious for) like horns and lights etc which can all be set right with one visit to a good electrician. All the niggles reported on this forum about the Manza are very minor and can easily be set right.
Hence it is Manza all the way for me, and going by the number of Manzas seen on the road a lot of people seem to be thinking like me.

[rishab.k]

@ Windiesel,

Sorry that I pestered you with the same question again.I felt that perhaps you missed it the first time.
I have to choose between a Manza & a Dzire (exactly like you).That's the only reason I wanted to know what made you choose the Manza .I agree, Manza has a lot many features & space than Dzire has but it's the A.S.S thing that's the only cause of worry.

[windiesel]

Originally Posted by rishab.k

@ Windiesel,

Sorry that I pestered you with the same question again.I felt that perhaps you missed it the first time.
I have to choose between a Manza & a Dzire (exactly like you).That's the only reason I wanted to know what made you choose the Manza .I agree, Manza has a lot many features & space than Dzire has but it's the A.S.S thing that's the only cause of worry.

A plus point for the dzire which I missed is better resale value. But since I keep my car for for 10 yrs+ it hardly matters. On the other hand Tata cars have thicker sheet metal that doesn't rust easily and lasts really long (ghar ka steel maybe!)
So go ahead decide what suits you best. If you're the white collar types who'll reach for the mobile instead of the toolbox when something goes wrong with the car, go for the Dzire. On the other hand if you've got diesel in your veins like me who knows what goes where and why, manza is a no brainer. (A test-- Do you go to the mistry and tell him there a strange noise coming from the Engine or do you say "Check the Starter motor, I think the solenoid Switch is gone")
So make your choice well. You have all the pros and cons now. Let us know which way you swing.

[airbender]

For all the manza owners: Highest ever sales for Manza in Feb, 7,373. Don't know if it is still more than Dzire or not.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by airbender

For all the manza owners: Highest ever sales for Manza in Feb, 7,373. Don't know if it is still more than Dzire or not.

Budget could be a reason. Every one was expecting the excise duty roll back and the increase in price due to switch to BS IV from April. I guess Manza will cost at least 20000 more from April? Any idea?

[Sudan_NFS]

yes it might be because there will be overall 4% increase in the car above 4 meters and 2% increase in cars below 4 meters.
Let's see how market behaves.

Originally Posted by Mevtec

I am sorry to disagree,this is the trait of TATA and allied companies.They dont find initial defects.Even if they find one they struggle to solve it.

For example my Indica's front driverside power winder was replaced 8 times.When the last one failed after the warranty period, I had to change them to manual.In cars like Swift you almost never face such a problem.

When I go through the initial quality niggles in Manza,I am surprised to find that these were some of the troubles which I had to face in the pre V2 INDICA 10 years back.What did TATA learn all these years? I really don't know.I am always a TATA well wisher.Hope they correct everything soon.

Well my dear friend, u need to understand the back story, TML has been making vehicles for only 10years. (read PASSENGER CARS) Also the example of the swift that you are talkin about, u need to understand that the swift was a model which was carried over to india from european and other asian countries, which means most problems had been streamlined by the time of the indian launch.

And these issues which are being faced in the manza are very few my friend. what i appeal to people is, sitting here listening to the bad experiences of our fellow bhpians, we cannot bad mouth a product. we should ask ourselves whether we know how many vehicles per say thousand vehicles have suffered from the same problem? also none of us actually bring up the topic when a certain problem is rectified. Subsequent readers will only read the problems and walk away from good cars.

To give you an example our favourite drivers car, the skoda VRS has a lot of reliability issues, yet we can talk only bout its laurels. and here in this manza thread we only bad mouth the product. Lets open up our minds and be more accomodating, otherwise one the the good INDIAN auto companies will soon bow out of the INDIAN aut scene.

peace. (hope its taken in the right spirit)

[extreme_torque]

February has been a record month for tata motors both in the commercial as well as passenger car markets. The Indigo range sold 7373 units, the highest ever since it was launched way back in 2002!
Tata Motor Posts Record Sales In February 2010 | Autoholiks

[adits]

Originally Posted by Mevtec

I am sorry to disagree,this is the trait of TATA and allied companies.They dont find initial defects.Even if they find one they struggle to solve it.

For example my Indica's front driverside power winder was replaced 8 times.When the last one failed after the warranty period, I had to change them to manual.In cars like Swift you almost never face such a problem.

When I go through the initial quality niggles in Manza,I am surprised to find that these were some of the troubles which I had to face in the pre V2 INDICA 10 years back.What did TATA learn all these years? I really don't know.I am always a TATA well wisher.Hope they correct everything soon.

I do agree with superveloce, not all quality niggles can be sorted out before launch. There are some things that never show up in your tests but will show up based on people's usage. e.g. My previous Indica V2 was running fine for over 4 years before my dad's friend borrowed it. In two months because of his style of driving, my suspension took a beating and never recovered till I sold it about 4 months ago in spite of the efforts put in by TASS and the local mechanic. Was this a quality niggle, NO. On the other hand, if it had been a Maruti or even my Santro, I doubt I would have had better luck with maintaining the car.

Originally Posted by superveloce

Well my dear friend, u need to understand the back story, TML has been making vehicles for only 10years. (read PASSENGER CARS) Also the example of the swift that you are talkin about, u need to understand that the swift was a model which was carried over to india from european and other asian countries, which means most problems had been streamlined by the time of the indian launch.

And these issues which are being faced in the manza are very few my friend. what i appeal to people is, sitting here listening to the bad experiences of our fellow bhpians, we cannot bad mouth a product. we should ask ourselves whether we know how many vehicles per say thousand vehicles have suffered from the same problem? also none of us actually bring up the topic when a certain problem is rectified. Subsequent readers will only read the problems and walk away from good cars.

To give you an example our favourite drivers car, the skoda VRS has a lot of reliability issues, yet we can talk only bout its laurels. and here in this manza thread we only bad mouth the product. Lets open up our minds and be more accomodating, otherwise one the the good INDIAN auto companies will soon bow out of the INDIAN aut scene.

peace. (hope its taken in the right spirit)

+1 to that. It looks more like people want to find fault with TASS. As windiesel said above TASS and MASS can be equally bad. Also, people seem to be so much in love with their Maruti's that they don't seem to report any niggles they might have had while any Tata product will get mentioned even for niggles they think exist. This is not condemning Maruti owners as I am aware Tata products have their own share of issues and all issues reported here on TBHP are true.

Actually, I have seen Marutis being taken to the local mechanic more than to MASS (sometimes the first visit for the car after the temple). This aspect I think never gets reported in the issues list for Marutis.

Originally Posted by adits

I do agree with superveloce, not all quality niggles can be sorted out before launch. There are some things that never show up in your tests but will show up based on people's usage. e.g. My previous Indica V2 was running fine for over 4 years before my dad's friend borrowed it. In two months because of his style of driving, my suspension took a beating and never recovered till I sold it about 4 months ago in spite of the efforts put in by TASS and the local mechanic. Was this a quality niggle, NO. On the other hand, if it had been a Maruti or even my Santro, I doubt I would have had better luck with maintaining the car.


+1 to that. It looks more like people want to find fault with TASS. As windiesel said above TASS and MASS can be equally bad. Also, people seem to be so much in love with their Maruti's that they don't seem to report any niggles they might have had while any Tata product will get mentioned even for niggles they think exist. This is not condemning Maruti owners as I am aware Tata products have their own share of issues and all issues reported here on TBHP are true.

Actually, I have seen Marutis being taken to the local mechanic more than to MASS (sometimes the first visit for the car after the temple). This aspect I think never gets reported in the issues list for Marutis.

Thanks adits.
That is exactly what i am trying to say. I myself use a Maruti Swift and though my vehicle has been reliable, there have been rattling problems which have driven me up the wall. But honestly i have never mentioned it here or when i talk about my ownership experience.
We all are right and we all are at fault over here. We need to forget any and all bias we have against a particular car maker and appreciate and condemn his efforts. Just because one bad experience by a friend/family should not translate in a collective opinion to formulate.
I think TATA had improved vastly in terms of bulid quality, sure its no where close to the likes of the Fabia or Polo, but for them its growth. It is taking them time to reach the levels of the industry average or exceed it, but they are not far off.
And before writing off the MANZA we should think about everything else that the manza offers to us at that stunning price. Sure the plastic quality or build quality, is not the best but its not really unacceptable.

[trrk]

Hi,

Originally Posted by windiesel

(For the record- When Tata launched the Indigo way back in 2002 they did not simply plonk the Indica engine in it but gave it something extra- A TURBOCHARGER.)

And an increase in wheelbase by 50mm!

[indivic]

Originally Posted by trrk

Hi,



And an increase in wheelbase by 50mm!

And a multi-link rear suspension !

[adits]

Originally Posted by indivic

And a multi-link rear suspension !

or the fact that the petrol was retuned to deliver 85 BHP form the indica's 75 BHP

[windiesel]

Originally Posted by trrk

And an increase in wheelbase by 50mm!

Originally Posted by indivic

And a multi-link rear suspension !

Originally Posted by adits

or the fact that the petrol was retuned to deliver 85 BHP form the indica's 75 BHP

Wow man! Just when you think you're the last of the Mohicans, these priceless nuggets of info come up! And they say Indian customers are short on memory,,, what crap!