[rkg]

Originally Posted by WindRide

Avoid using rare instances of Toyota glitches as an excuse to defend the shoddy TATA quality.

Recall involving 2.3 million cars can not be termed as rare instance under any circumstances.
Toyota was labelled as the No.1 in terms of QC . if it can happen to world's No.1 QC car company that too for 2.3 million vehicles, it can happen to any other manufacturer also.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by rkg

Recall involving 2.3 million cars can not be termed as rare instance under any circumstances.
Toyota was labelled as the No.1 in terms of QC . if it can happen to world's No.1 QC car company that too for 2.3 million vehicles, it can happen to any other manufacturer also.

Absolutely right, what is more damning is that the fault is said to be a design issue, and not just manufacturing (New York Times reports). Hell, I'll take a Tata car with niggles rather than a Toyota with a sticky accelerator pedal .


@Windride: Although I agree that Tata needs to pull up it's socks with respect to plastic quality, it's getting there slowly; don't use the guinea pig example too freely. So what if the "senior" members say that Tata uses customers as guinea pigs, it might just be the fact that with seniority comes the probability of owning an older Tata vehicle.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by rkg

Recall involving 2.3 million cars can not be termed as rare instance under any circumstances.
Toyota was labelled as the No.1 in terms of QC . if it can happen to world's No.1 QC car company that too for 2.3 million vehicles, it can happen to any other manufacturer also.

Also keep in mind, people pay a premium for Toyota vehicles just for its quality. Not for the "style" or "driving dynamics". Also never happened in the past, because of an issue, production of 8 assembly lines stopped. If this could happen to Toyota, it could happen to any one..This is a major issue, unlike the fuse box cover coming out etc.

[sachinj12]

Originally Posted by WindRide

There are other threads for tata-bashing/defending.

A very warm welcome here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...anza-aura.html

[arunpn]

Somehow despite Tata bringing two good cars Indica Vista & Indigo Manza, they have not set the market on fire. Indica & Indigo had better sales than its successors. Vista & Manza have better reviews & press support, but somehow public have not taken up to them in hordes. Indica & Indigo were the favourite whipping boys of various snobs but their sales figures were astounding. In hatchback i10, & now Ritz continue to dominate wheras Vista is still far behind despite its attractive price, looks & various features and amongst sedans, Dzire continues to lead.

Maybe Tatas have a bad marketing campaign or poor advertising agency not able to highlights the cars advantages or maybe Maruti & Hyundai have put into our brain that buy only Japanse or Korean cars, Indian cars are bad. Of course, there is no disputing the fact that Tatas are still 10 years behind the Koreans in car manufacturing & marketing technology.

[teamveevee]

Rapid Growth Has Dented Toyota’s Reputation - NYTimes.com

Toyota managed to win bragging rights as the world’s biggest car company. But that focus on rapid growth appears to have come at a cost to its reputation for quality, creating an opportunity for others to potentially take back market share they lost to Toyota........
The move to expand its supplier network was necessary to save money, given cost pressures on Toyota and other manufacturers, said Ulrike Schaede, professor of Japanese business at the University of California, San Diego. But the shift also makes it harder for Toyota to control quality...

[WindRide]

> "Recall involving 2.3 million cars can not be termed as rare instance under any circumstances."

Is this a MAJOR and a SERIOUS issue? HELL YES!! I wonder if Toyota can be tried in a criminal court for "death caused due to negligence". That would be small solace to families of the unfortunate victims.

Is it a RARE issue. Maybe since Toyota does not recall this volume of cars routinely (thats why i used the 'RARE'). This in no way absolves it of its gross negligence.

> "This is a major issue, unlike the fuse box cover coming out etc."

Exactly what gets my goat as far as TATA QC is concerned - the chalta-hai attitude to minor issues while the car is still within factory premises and their inability to put a smile on customer's face - squeaking noise from suspensions, defective starter unit, non-functional boot lock, jagged plastic edges in steering wheel resulting in cuts to drivers hand, power window/door lock/grip unit loose and falling off, etc. The various initial ownership accouts in this forum has a plethora of details on these and other minor niggles in factory-fresh cars (including Manza which had a starter unit issue out of showroom).

On an average, occurence of these new car niggles in a Toyota/Honda/Hyundai car will be lower than TATA cars. Just because you pay lesser amount for a TATA car, can you be expected to grin and bear the new car niggles?

> "Although I agree that Tata needs to pull up it's socks with respect to plastic quality, it's getting there slowly"

They better get there faster, competition's hotting up


> "Maybe Tatas have a bad marketing campaign or poor advertising agency... "

Manza marketing spin has been impressive with full page ads in TOI and other major dailes.

> "there is no disputing the fact that Tatas are still 10 years behind the Koreans in car manufacturing & marketing technology."

They have started making really good cars of late (Manza for example). Its only the 'finish' that lets it down, and that is my only problem with TATA.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by WindRide

> "Recall involving 2.3 million cars can not be termed as rare instance under any circumstances."

Is this a MAJOR and a SERIOUS issue? HELL YES!! I wonder if Toyota can be tried in a criminal court for "death caused due to negligence". That would be small solace to families of the unfortunate victims.

Is it a RARE issue. Maybe since Toyota does not recall this volume of cars routinely (thats why i used the 'RARE'). This in no way absolves it of its gross negligence.

well it is not RARE either before this "Total Recall" they had to recall 1.4 million cars exactly 1 year back that is in Jan 2009 . The fault was in the seat belt tension er which may melt or catch fire in collision scenario.

Toyota recalls 1.4 million cars | Planetary Gear - CNET News

Prior to this in May 2008 Toyota had to recall Matrix and Corolla.
As per wikipedia "Toyota issued a recall for 2003 and 2004 model year Corollas and Matrixes. The recall notice cites two bolts in each of the front doors as potentially causing the window to come off the track and break"

In fact I could search back Toyota recall to 1998 and they are fairly regular.

1998 Toyota Camry Recalls, Defects, & Problems

Being fare to Toyota these recalls actually establish trust among consumers that Toyota will fix if something goes back.

[adits]

Originally Posted by WindRide

>
Exactly what gets my goat as far as TATA QC is concerned - the chalta-hai attitude to minor issues while the car is still within factory premises and their inability to put a smile on customer's face - squeaking noise from suspensions, defective starter unit, non-functional boot lock, jagged plastic edges in steering wheel resulting in cuts to drivers hand, power window/door lock/grip unit loose and falling off, etc. The various initial ownership accouts in this forum has a plethora of details on these and other minor niggles in factory-fresh cars (including Manza which had a starter unit issue out of showroom).

Here again you are combining all problems with Tata cars into a thread meant to disuss the Manza. Again the combi switch issue detailed by Manza owners on TBHP has been seen in a couple of cars of the dozen or so already being reported. This does not mean that Tata QC is not at fault here but unless we get this as a consistent issue with the Manza, I do not think it right to categorize it as a fault in the Manza per se. I reproduce drsk's post earlier in this thread detailing the issues reported so far.

Originally Posted by drsk

From following this thread here I see 3 issues/niggles faced.

1. Temperature reading - inconsistent working.
2. Combi-switch related issues have been reported and they are replaced by the dealer.
3. Bluetooth system is not consistent with Nokia E51. This can not be considered officially as an issue as the phone is not listed under the compatible phone list.

Of these only the combi-switch looks a bit serious. Only the owners or experts can best comment on that.

[amit1234singla]

Hi all - can anyone help me decode the following VIN for Manza. Dealer told me that this is the VIN for my car and the car will be available in a day or two. I just want to make sure it's a 2010 model. Any help will be really appreciated :

MAT613031ALA00506

[kingpin1]

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

Hi all - can anyone help me decode the following VIN for Manza. Dealer told me that this is the VIN for my car and the car will be available in a day or two. I just want to make sure it's a 2010 model. Any help will be really appreciated :

MAT613031ALA00506

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...n-cars-28.html
This thread should help you. And on a another note how long did you wait for your car? My dealer said 3-4 weeks how long was the Wait for you?

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by kingpin1

And on a another note how long did you wait for your car? My dealer said 3-4 weeks how long was the Wait for you?

Thanks for the link. I booked the car in Dec but wanted to go for a 2010 model, so had to wait till Jan end.

[don_carmaster]

Originally Posted by arunpn

Somehow despite Tata bringing two good cars Indica Vista & Indigo Manza, they have not set the market on fire. Indica & Indigo had better sales than its successors. Vista & Manza have better reviews & press support, but somehow public have not taken up to them in hordes. Indica & Indigo were the favourite whipping boys of various snobs but their sales figures were astounding. In hatchback i10, & now Ritz continue to dominate wheras Vista is still far behind despite its attractive price, looks & various features and amongst sedans, Dzire continues to lead.

Maybe Tatas have a bad marketing campaign or poor advertising agency not able to highlights the cars advantages or maybe Maruti & Hyundai have put into our brain that buy only Japanse or Korean cars, Indian cars are bad. Of course, there is no disputing the fact that Tatas are still 10 years behind the Koreans in car manufacturing & marketing technology.

My Rs.2
Yes Even i do agree on this point ..It may be because of the Shoddy quality delivered by TATA in the cowboys resulted in jacking up of bad user experiences ...which are still being feared in the Vista and Manza which results into bad sales even after providing not the best but at least better quality!!
TATA would really have to do a lot of patchwork to gain its reputation

[airbender]

Originally Posted by WindRide

Avoid using rare instances of Toyota glitches as an excuse to defend the shoddy TATA quality.

There are senior tbhians who will agree that TATA uses humans as guniea pigs to test out their cars (greenhorn for example). Please search for them on the various ownership threads.

I think we are deviating from the topic here anyway. There are other threads for tata-bashing/defending.

Perfect example of an Indian trying to bring down an indian company. Windride, do you think toyota/honda started of being good car companies. Both of them had a very bad quality when they initialy started selling in US. Every company goes through this phase, tata & mahindra are also going through it. I would say tata is ready to come out of that phase now. They actually are coming out of this phase now much quicker than others. For all poster boys of videsi products, almost all auto makers recall products worldwide, then why don't we see that recall in india. Eg. Camry sold in india uses same parts as the one sold in US or Japan. They still don't recall in india. What does that mean. Making fools of indian customers. Service level in us/japan cannot be even compared with that in India. Eg: If you have a problem with the car and drop it at the showroom in us/Japan when under warranty they give a rental car for free for the period the car is being worked on. Does this happen in India. ALso most auto makers offer 50000 miles/ 5 years warranty in us/japan. What about in India. They still charge the same every where.

One more joke: Passat selling at the price of BMW 3 series. Skoda a luxury car.

Well, in one straight statement. Videsi automakers are milking Indian buyers.

I am not saying don't critisize desi auto makers just because they are desi and critisize videsi automakers just becasue they are videsi. Give them both a fair chance.

[kd5kvn]

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

Hi all - can anyone help me decode the following VIN for Manza. Dealer told me that this is the VIN for my car and the car will be available in a day or two. I just want to make sure it's a 2010 model. Any help will be really appreciated :

MAT613031ALA00506

Yes, it a January 2010 model.