[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by royalcruiser

Hi, wanted to share this experience of mine from yesterday.

I have faced the same issue with coolant level, although the engine doesn't heat up on long drives even if the coolant level is way below minimum. My GP had a leak in the coolant pipe and I filled up about 2 litres of coolant mixture, in the ratio mentioned in the owner's manual. The last visit was for 15K service where they said they fixed the leak and 4K kms later, the level has again gone down below minimum, regular TATA service, I don't expect them to fix anything. The warranty recall is for rear suspension, it started about 2 months ago.

The pull to the left that all Puntos have is due to bad alignment, and not all cars have them, I had it fixed around the 11K mark and its still OK at 18K, no pulling at all. Don't take the car to SC when you face this problem, get to a good alignment place, they will sort it out.

[Dine]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

2. The annoying tendency to start slowly pulling to the left every few months. When I first got the car, it had this problem and I got it rectified by Concorde Motors, Cochin. Since then I have shown it thrice to Concorde Motors, Bangalore for the same issue. If I take my hands off the steering wheel, it tilts marginally to the left and the car gently deviates from the straight line. I had gone there a couple of weeks ago and got it fixed again and I thought that was the end of it. Yest while driving down to Cochin, I noticed that it was pulling ever so slightly to the left.

I called up the Fiat Service Advisor at Concorde Motors, Cochin who told me that this is a known problem with Puntos Apparently last week another customer complained about the same thing & Fiat flew down an expert from their plant and despite replacing several parts, it still pulls a wee bit to the left. They had to show the customer that new Puntos that had freshly landed also faced the same issue.

It seems that more Punto owners complain of this in Bangalore (among other cities) because the roads there are wider and it is easier to observe. Given the state of Kerala's roads (roads, what roads you ask) they dont receive too many of these complaints here though they know it is an issue. They (the SA in Bangalore as well) say that all they can adjust is the toe - in and beyond that they are helpless as it is a manufacturing issue.

Call me crazy but I dont think that is a suitable excuse. Anyways have fixed up an appointment with them for later this week. Will see how they handle it.

If you have done the wheel alignment outside FIAT A.S.S then you will face this. It happened to my Punto and they fixed it when I took my car to their A.S.S - VST in chennai.
Ask the SA to check the left lower arm and end, it resolves quicker.

[neil.jericho]

Warning : Long post but I dare say it is an interesting read. Please read my post on the previous page for a background.

Spent a most intruiging day at bizzaro land errr Concorde Motors, Cochin. The day started off with the Service Advisor (henceforth SA1) for Fiat cars test driving my car which was pulling very slightly to the left a few seconds (4 - 5 approx) after letting go of the steering wheel. Now according to him this is a known issue (not a problem but a characteristic issue which implies nothing is wrong with it) with Puntos and it also has to do with the inclination of the roads in the state (sic). Not wanting to argue, I asked politely how many Fiats they service per month. 200 was the answer (doubtful but who am I to question that). I asked how many owners complain about the car pulling to one side. Only one complaint so far but the logic given was that 99% of the owners dont realise it is pulling to the left because Fiats (both Puntos and Lineas) pull to the left all the time and users subconsiously accept it (no I didnt understand it either) and hence dont complain about it but as service guys they are aware that there is the issue but dont do anything about it (feel free to bang your head against the wall any time). I was told the maximum they can do is to adjust the toe in and if I wanted to, I could take it up with the supervisor. But after the test drive, according to SA1 there is no alignment issue (never mind that it does move to the side after releasing the wheel and he experienced it several times during the test drive)

So I go talk to the Customer Relationship Manager (henceforth CRMGuy) for service for Fiat cars at Concorde Motors. He too confidently states the same thing - all Fiat cars have this and it gets worse because all roads are inclined to the left. So I ask him to give me a letter stating the same. He asked me to drop him an email & he will reply stating the same. I tried arguing with him on logic (very difficult in bizzaro land) and said that if this was a known issue then someone somewhere mustve stumbled upon it and complained. So how come I havent found stories of crazy steering Puntos on the internet I ask? No answer but according to CRMGuy, Fiats engineers tell them that it is a frequently occuring issue. Just to ensure there is no confusion, he wants another Fiat Service Advisor (henceforth SA2) to drive the car.

SA2 is honest enough to admit that the car does pull to the left but states the same mindbender of a reason. I ask him to give it to me in writing but he states he cant do that. I tell SA2 the same thing that I have told SA1 & CRMGuy, why do my other cars not pull to the left on the same roads? And if this is a known issue, why dont they warn potential owners about it? Cheesy smiles are all I get in return but I appreciate the honesty of SA2. SA2 promises to demonstrate with other cars and then over the next hour, proceeds to take me on test drives in a Fiat Punto & an Indica that both steer crazily to the left. Hence their theory is proved. Or so they think.

Back to CRMGuy who now starts explaining to me why this happens only in Fiats and not other cars. Apparently it has something to do with the way the suspension is set up in non Fiats. But I logicallly (my mistake, I shouldve realised by now that logic is absent in bizzaro land) tell him that the laws of physics apply equally to all cars, irrespective of the badge. But no, he continues to explain how the angle towards the left of the road affects Fiats and not other cars (fortunately I didnt understand, or else I wouldve typed out the explanation here)

Then CRMGuy asks me to come in the evening to collect the car despite wheel alignment being a short activity. Bear in mind that it is now 3 1/2 hours + since I have come to bizzaro land errr Concorde Motors. I refuse to do so and tell them to get it done and hand over the car. CRMGuy now starts acting oversmart & tells me I need to pay for wheel alignment. I tell him that they themselves had corrected it within a month of buying my car from them without charging me & Concorde Motors, Bangalore has done the alignment several times without charging me and I was not going to pay anything because there was a genuine problem in the car. But the rules keep changing for CRMGuy (who seems to have forgotten his designation and seems to be doing everything to annoy me) who insists that I have come there for free wheel alignment and nothing else (insert head banging into wall a million times here). So despite his SA2 admitting there is a problem, he says there is no issue with the car and if I insist he can get the alignment done for a charge (which I steadfastly refuse to do).

Seeing as he is more than incompetent, narrow minded & out to prove a point, I tell him that he is wasting my time & ruining my holiday spirit and decide to take my car and leave. Then I spot the owner / manager / big shot and take it up with him. He puts me onto the GM of service who patiently listens to my adventures in bizzaro land including the head scratching reasons and promises to get the car rectified & speak to the disgracefully behaving CRM.

While I am waiting for the car, I coincindentally get a call from Concorde Motors, Bangalore (no Im not making this up) who ask how the car is performing. When I tell them about the reoccuring issue they insist that I bring it to them so that they can get it sorted ASAP. A far, far cry from the Cochin Fiat SA1 who didnt want me to bring the car in saying its a known problem.

Anyways finally CRMGuy hands over the car after 4 PM (keep in mind that Ive come in at 10 AM for a less than haf an hour job) and is at his best behaviour. Now he states that he will take up my email with Fiat (no mention of the open letter whatsoever) because the company should know about these issues (I thought they already knew about these issues, oh wait, there I go again bringing logic into the picture).

I am happy to state that now the car is steering perfectly and the steering wheel doesnt move from the centre position if I take my hands off it. Oh wait, as per SA1 & CRMGuy, if it is steering perfectly and the steering wheel doesnt move from the centre position, then it is all wrong and messed up since it should automatically pull to the left. Im confused now .....

[figo_mba]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Will see if they can fix it this time or else I will have to take it up with Fiat directly.

I think with the kind of experience you've had you should write to Fiat.

Originally Posted by headers

Does it pull to the left or right if you do the same bit of road in the reverse direction? , [ i.e. if you are going from East to West on a road Z, try doing West to East on Road Z in the same area. ]

@neil.jericho please can you answer this one or did i miss it ? The suspense is killing me. i know there is no way you can answer this one now that your problem is rectified.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Spent a most intruiging day at bizzaro land errr Concorde Motors, Cochin.

with 3 times in concorde bangalore and not having rectified the problem why do you still go there ? Aren't there others ? or are the other service centers worse ?

But I logicallly (my mistake, I shouldve realised by now that logic is absent in bizzaro land) CRMGuy now starts acting oversmart & tells me I need to pay for wheel alignment. I tell him that they themselves had corrected it within a month of buying my car from them without charging me & Concorde Motors, Bangalore has done the alignment several times without charging me and I was not going to pay anything because there was a genuine problem in the car. But the rules keep changing for CRMGuy (who seems to have forgotten his designation and seems to be doing everything to annoy me) who insists that I have come there for free wheel alignment and nothing else (insert head banging into wall a million times here).

Free wheel alignment ? OMG! They actually said that ? Bro, Your car has just done just 7K kms and wheel alignments are done every 5K kms. If the wheel alignment goes wrong within a month or in 1000kms you are entitled get it done from the same place for FREE. Even the local shops agree and do that. I think you should have put forth this arguement.
I hope you did.

I am happy to state that now the car is steering perfectly and the steering wheel doesnt move from the centre position if I take my hands off it.

All is well that ends well. but hey I think you should take it up with Fiat.

OT: I think there is toe adjustment only for most of the small cars. camber and caster are fixed. can anyone confirm ?

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by figo_mba

@neil.jericho please can you answer this one or did i miss it ? The suspense is killing me. i know there is no way you can answer this one now that your problem is rectified.

Its always been a leftie thing. The explanation given by Concorde Motors Cochin is that all roads in Kerala (and by extension elsewhere as well) have the left side lower that the centre so as water can drain off and hence all cars will pull to the left. Its just that in the Fiats it is more so because well the laws of physics apply differently to Fiats. I honestly did say that physics will not change if the badge on a car differs from the next but it was no use, CRMGuy kepy explaining the same thing. Yes feel free to jump off a building or run into a wall if you dont get their logic.

To further complicate matters & prove that Puntos are 'supposed' to not hold a straight line, SA2 drove my car on a side road which wasnt totally smooth and did wallow a little and showed how the car was moving to the right, while taking the reverse direction. I dont know if I've answered the question or if Ive confused you even more. Its very simple really

Originally Posted by figo_mba

with 3 times in concorde bangalore and not having rectified the problem why do you still go there ? Aren't there others ? or are the other service centers worse ?

Good point, the thing is they are the closest & going to office was easy for me but next time I will try out Prerana Motors in Blore.

Originally Posted by figo_mba

Free wheel alignment ? OMG! They actually said that ? Bro, Your car has just done just 7K kms and wheel alignments are done every 5K kms. If the wheel alignment goes wrong within a month or in 1000kms you are entitled get it done from the same place for FREE. Even the local shops agree and do that. I think you should have put forth this arguement.
I hope you did.

I did, I did. Several times. And its not like I do major mile munching over rough terrain that will send the alignment for a toss. Its just home to office and back on Blore roads. Oh wait that is rought terrain

But in all seriousness CRMGuy to understand simple logic was mighty difficult. I might as well have tried driving a nail into a wall with a pillow and I wouldve had more success. I kid you not!

Originally Posted by figo_mba

OT: I think there is toe adjustment only for most of the small cars. camber and caster are fixed. can anyone confirm ?

That is true for the Fiat Punto, not 100% sure about other cars.

[figo_mba]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Good point, the thing is they are the closest & going to office was easy for me but next time I will try out Prerana Motors in Blore.

I did, I did. Several times. And its not like I do major mile munching over rough terrain that will send the alignment for a toss. Its just home to office and back on Blore roads. Oh wait that is rought terrain

But in all seriousness CRMGuy to understand simple logic was mighty difficult. I might as well have tried driving a nail into a wall with a pillow and I wouldve had more success. I kid you not!

That is true for the Fiat Punto, not 100% sure about other cars.

I think what they would have done would be to over correct the right side so that the left pulling stops. I suggest you take this to a independent wheel aligner and ask them if it is so.

Also please can you check the tire inflation pressure on both tires ? I mean under inflating the right tire in comparison to the left also can correct the left pulling. Please put same tire pressures and check that as well.

If it is any of the above then the alignment will be out and the left puling will resume after the comfort interval.

I am not saying that they would have done that but guess you are safer if you check these out as well.

If any of this is the case then try returning to normal settings and check the pulling issue.
If the car is pulling left, please can you check the alignment of lower arm of the suspension.

I hope i am not psyching you out.

[autoweirdo]

Had a test drive on Saturday, following are the observations (Mods i hope this is right place to post or move it to right thread):

Positives:
1) The interior dashboard quality far better than old puntos. Infact of 3 cars tested Figo, Vista n Ritz i found Punto with best dashboard material.
2) Super smooth gearshift. No issues in moving and jumpig between gears. Due to traffic tested only upto 4th gear.
3) Car was able to move on from standstill in 2nd gear and no clutter sound in low speeds (drove at 15-20km in 3rd gear. Figo was unable to pull in 2nd gear from standstill, no such test in vista)
4) In cabin noise less than figo but slightly higher than vista.
5) I found car to be pretty quick compared to figo and vista.
6) In case of 2nd or 3rd gear even if you do not puch the accelerator, car seems to push itself found it very useful in heavy traffic near guindy.
7) Rear leg space ok for my height (5.8ft)
8) Bumps were really absorbed well and very less dead steering feel while going over the bumps.
9) Foot rest was really welcome change compared to figo and vista also well ergonomically designed.
10) AC was chiller, had to switch off many times even though we were 4 guys on board.

Negatives:
1) The interior seemed pretty dull in night compared to vista with pleasing dashboard lights.
2) The hand brake was not functioning in TD vehicle.
3) The engine noise was clearly evident in higher rpm.
4) There was slight vibration in steering (less than vista but higher than figo)
5) The wiper and turn indicator stalks didnt seemed strong enough, also the inside door opening lever had very thin plastic (might be strong but feel was not good).

Other:
Really impressed with punto and waiting for new updates. Got some details from sales guy which i have posted in the Punto 2012 thread.

[Ravenblood]

Hi Guys.



Firstly Mod’s please ive searched the whole thread endlessly, and there are no discussions that can solve my query..
I'm in the market for a companion for my Getz CRDI, but this time petrol.. Narrowed it down to the Fabia 1.6 & Polo 1.6, Test drove both for almost a month and finally decided on the Fabia 1.6. Since it was already late December and dealers not getting in anymore stock decided to wait till the New Year. One Fine December morning, on my way to a friend’s place passed a the Fiat Showroom, Thought to myself the Punto has always been a long-time favourite but to the A** from tata for our Palio Stile the idea was dropped in a hurry. But tout to my self what the hell lets stop by and checkout the car since I had some time to spare.


Test Drove the Grand Punto 1.4 Emotion and I was blown away, Not as powerful as the others but a rock-solid contender. Now the Deal is even sweeter… The SE told me the do not have any 2011 Models in stock but has a BNW 1.4 Emotion PK Feb2010 Model on which they can offer some cash discount.


SO here is the Offer..
Free Insurance.
Free RSA
Cash discount of 1.52 Lac.
Free Undercoating, Teflon, Anti Rust, Premium Tinting from 3M.
The Onroad price from 6.73 Lac, Works out to 4.90

My Question below…

1 ) Is the Offer justified for a 2010 Model, Or should I ask for more.
2 )How come they have such old models in stock, the SE told me that they received the car in Aug 2011 from Fiat..
3 )Did a visual PDI, Car looks in good condition, started her up, Speedo stood on 67 Km,
4 )Will be keeping the car for a minimum 6 years so not really bothered about resale value.
5 )How can we come to know if the car is a lemon or not. Any Test that can be carried out.
6 )Told the SE that is I do go for the Car, I want the Wiper Blades, Battery, All 4 Tired Replaced to a more recent date for which he agreed..

Your Valuable inputs will be greatly appreciated..

Thanks

[amit1234singla]

Originally Posted by Ravenblood

...but has a BNW 1.4 Emotion PK Feb2010 Model on which they can offer some cash discount.

So here is the Offer..
Free Insurance.
Free RSA
Cash discount of 1.52 Lac.
Free Undercoating, Teflon, Anti Rust, Premium Tinting from 3M.
The Onroad price from 6.73 Lac, Works out to 4.90

My Question below…

1 ) Is the Offer justified for a 2010 Model, Or should I ask for more.
2 ) How come they have such old models in stock, the SE told me that they received the car in Aug 2011 from Fiat..
3 ) Did a visual PDI, Car looks in good condition, started her up, Speedo stood on 67 Km,
4 ) Will be keeping the car for a minimum 6 years so not really bothered about resale value.
5 ) How can we come to know if the car is a lemon or not. Any Test that can be carried out.
6 ) Told the SE that is I do go for the Car, I want the Wiper Blades, Battery, All 4 Tired Replaced to a more recent date for which he agreed..

This is what I would do if in a similar situation:
1. Please check what's the resale price of a used Punto 1.4 Emotion Pack Feb 2010 in very good condition, less run in your area. On that price, pay 40-50k more on road since this is a new car.
2. Ask the dealer to certify on their letter head that this car has never been repaired for any accident and never used as TD car and they will refund full car value if so proved later.
3. Ask them to share with you the delivery note/ receipt from fiat which can prove they actually got the car in Aug 11.
4. Do an extensive PDI on the car, please check for any wear on gear nob, steering etc. Just to be sure it has never been used as a TD car or dealership employee car.

I am not asking you to walk away from the deal straight away as this seems to be a good deal. But I am sure there is a catch. This most likely (and I can be wrong) is a dealership unregistered TD vehicle. Also, if you buy this car, please do opt for extended warranty.

Also, please be prepared to almost write off the car after 6 years of your usage. The way things stand today, you may not be able to sell a 8 year old fiat petrol later.

Hope this helps.

EDIT - in addition to tires, battery change etc, ask the dealer to throw in a full service changing all fluids/ filters before the delivery. Remember every fluid in the car is already 2 years old even if it's unused.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by Ravenblood

My Question below…

1 ) Is the Offer justified for a 2010 Model, Or should I ask for more.
2 )How come they have such old models in stock, the SE told me that they received the car in Aug 2011 from Fiat..
3 )Did a visual PDI, Car looks in good condition, started her up, Speedo stood on 67 Km,
4 )Will be keeping the car for a minimum 6 years so not really bothered about resale value.
5 )How can we come to know if the car is a lemon or not. Any Test that can be carried out.
6 )Told the SE that is I do go for the Car, I want the Wiper Blades, Battery, All 4 Tired Replaced to a more recent date for which he agreed..

Your Valuable inputs will be greatly appreciated..

Thanks

1. More more more. And more. I would suggest you go to the Fiat website & look at the accessories section and make a list of all that you want and insist they throw it in as well.
2. It is not likely that they would have taken delivery in Aug 2011. It must be an unsold car which they were unable to clear in the Dec 2010 - Jan 2011 season. When I was buying my Puto I too was offered a 6 month old car which turned out to be a 1 year old car (thanks to me being able to decode the VIN). To be on the safer side get the VIN and verify it against the thread we have here.
4. All the more reason to buy this car.
5. If you can get a trusted mechanic to come check the car, there is nothing like it.
6. Agree with amit1234singla. Get them to replace the fluids in the car as well.

If the dealer doesnt sell it now, they will probably never be able to sell it at all so they will look to push this car off their inventory, which bodes well for you. But to be on the safer side, insist on an authorized letter from the dealer stating that this was not a demo car, as amit1234singla had suggested.

In my experience with Fiat (in particular Concorde Motors, Cochin) the staff are more than ready to give verbal assurances but if you ask them to give it to you in writing, then they pussyfoot around. So insist on this letter before sealing the deal.

[Ravenblood]

Thanks For the input guys..

This is the Final Offer that they are offering..

1. 2 Lac Cash Discount
2. Free Insurance, RSA & Extended Warrenty.
3. Anti rust, Telfon, Tinting by 3M.

Over and above what amit mentioned a full service change of fluids/filters , Plus change of battery, Wiper Blades, & Tires.

they will get back to be on the statement on the letterhead. after consulting their higher ups.

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by Ravenblood

5 )How can we come to know if the car is a lemon or not. Any Test that can be carried out.
6 )Told the SE that is I do go for the Car, I want the Wiper Blades, Battery, All 4 Tired Replaced to a more recent date for which he agreed..

I would stay away from a 2 yr old car kept in the stockyard. Several unanswered questions - does not give peace of mind - and if you find some problems later you'll just keep regretting .

Better buy a 2 yr old car from the used car market.

[figo_mba]

Originally Posted by Ravenblood

Thanks For the input guys..

This is the Final Offer that they are offering..

1. 2 Lac Cash Discount
2. Free Insurance, RSA & Extended Warrenty.
3. Anti rust, Telfon, Tinting by 3M.

Over and above what amit mentioned a full service change of fluids/filters , Plus change of battery, Wiper Blades, & Tires.

they will get back to be on the statement on the letterhead. after consulting their higher ups.

I think you should stay from it even though it is a great and simply awesome deal since there are a lot of issues that fiat has fixed in the last 2 Model years.
The 2011 model has better plastics and the ac that than the previous years. They also tend to have lower problems with the clutch master cylinder etc. Some of the tweaks that Fiat might have initiated as part of the productions process might not come up in an ad but will improve the reliability of the car.

More still 2012 model cars are out and they are better than any punto till date. 2L extra would mean on 4500 or so extra bucks extra in terms of EMI.
In the end it is a calculated risk. All the best.

[ScorpMan]

While looking for a diesel hatchback, test drove the Punto 90Hp variant today. I had high expectations from this VGT variant, as it had 14Bhp More Power & 12Nm More Tourque than the FGT variant.

But, I was disappointed. Performance is lethargic, and certainly feels so after driving the same engines in a Maruti Swift or Ritz. Agreed it is heavier than both, but if I am not wrong, it is just 60 Kgs. heavier than the Swift ZDI. So, 60kgs shouldn't be the reason behind such drastic difference in performance. It is certainly the way Fiat has tuned its engines.

Furthermore, it was way more noisier compared to the Marutis or an i20. Quality of the plastics, ergonomics & fit and finish is still not perfect & worthy of a 7.8L hatch. When it comes to space, at the front it seems okay, but at the rear it is certainly very tight. Boot space is huge & very well designed. Special mention should be made about the solid metal sheets on the rear seat's back, a very good safety feature.

Where it certainly beats the competition hollow, is its tank like build, solid sheet metal and the famed, brilliant ride & handlin

[blueblooded]

@scorpman,
You cant compare marutis with fiat .The engine is same and there itself ends the similarity.
Marutis have to evolve hell lot to make the likes of fiat punto .
There is no denying that punto is not as spirited as the swift or the tall boy -no offence intended ,but they can never match the high speed dynamics of fiats at all.
Though ,only chink in its armor is poor after sales and that too is picking up.
Moreover,there is definitive reports doing rounds in auto circles regarding the dedicated fiat sales and service outlets across the country ,we hope that fiat would carve a niche in Indian market which hitherto have eluded them
regards
praveen singh