[Venks_144]

Originally Posted by Bit

And Indian manufacturers are infamous for their quality control, and we all are witness to that. If Tatas and Mahindras have visible niggles from day 1 like infotainment, camera, software, and various electronics - and mind it, these are the things that we can SEE; who's to say that the components you CAN NOT see are performing at their optimal?

Absolutely, imagine your car breaking down in the middle of nowhere or an error which you may not understand and panic. Also in remote areas there is also individual safety issue at nights etc. How would safety account to that then?

Better to have balance of both worlds and that's why things like ASS becomes critical in maintaining the vehicle at an optimum condition which equally contributes whether an individual is safe in any given situation.

[Sk8r]

Originally Posted by Venks_144

I would rather prefer to be in a car with 3-4 NCAP rating which has better braking and better control of the car rather than be in a car that has 5 star safety with poor braking and electronics going bonkers randomly putting me or anyone who drives in panic mode.

Originally Posted by Bit

Absolutely agree. The car can be 5 stars NCAP ratings all the way but what's the point if MY car wasn't checked thoroughly for quality control?

These points are valid assuming we're the best drivers out there, following each and every rule written. However, if we're not - it's safer to be in a 5 star rated car than any other !

Am not a fan of Tata's 5 star build and will never buy one due to the very QC issues you're mentioning. However, never underestimate the safety blanket of a higher star rated car especially when we're not the best of the best drivers in the worst possible roads.

Rest my case and don't want to divert the thread any further !

[srivatchsan]

Originally Posted by kush2545

Many congratulations on the new machine! Can you post your experience with ADAS and the kind of mileage it is returning to you?

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

I've currently set the AEBS (Auto Emergency Braking System) to off-state and other features to warning only, so I don't have real-time experience. However, the warnings are accurate. I'll make sure to share more once I enable these features. The mileage was 14.5 on the Mysore exp highway. I was doing around 120-130, and within the city, it didnt cross 10

[srivatchsan]

Originally Posted by BSASLR

The XUV 700 allows 11 hours of footage storage.

Does 3XO Variants with 360-degree cameras allow the same?

Because if yes then a Dashcam may not be needed, unless there are issues with half-baked software setup.

Those lucky ones who have already got delivery of such 3XO variants can confirm pls?

Screen Grab from XUV 700:

Hello, thanks for this question. It made me curious, so I explored the options. Please refer to the screenshots; it does have some recording options. Need to check the provision for SD Card etc. I will keep you posted.

[UltraViolence]

This is some next level goof-up

So apparently, All the automatic variants from the first production lot had the "TGDi Automatic" badging on the cars, even the lower variants from the MX series with TCMPFi engines.

Looks like M&M took their "segment shakers" strategy quite literally

Source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7euZwD45Hhc

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by UltraViolence

This is some next level goof-up

So apparently, All the automatic variants from the first production lot had the "TGDi Automatic" badging on the cars, even the lower variants from the MX series

Imagine service centre mechanics using engine oil meant for the TGDi inside the TCMPFI. Or worse still using Diesel car's fluids in petrol cars and vice versa.

[srivatchsan]

Originally Posted by srivatchsan

I've set the AEBS (Auto Emergency Braking System) to off-state and other features to warning only, so I don't have real-time experience. However, the warnings are accurate. I'll make sure to share more once I enable these features. The mileage was 14.5 on the Mysore exp highway. I was doing around 120-130, and within the city, it didnt cross 10

A new addition to mine: I changed the tires to Conti UC 6 with the same factory profile. I got used always to Conti and cannot accept the MRF after 4 -5 days of driving. But as always, we got a pretty deal from Sai Iyengars (SLD) in Indiranagar and closed it today.

[MaanSingh]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

Saw a 3XO for the first time. Yep, it looks hideous. And its only the front.

Plus one to the darker shade and I would turn off DRLs (during day time).
DRLs would turn on automatically when using headlights at night, and that's still OK as it does not spoil car looks that much at night.

I have done the same in my XUV 700.
I think XUV 700 DRLs only look acceptable or OK in white colour car only.

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by MaanSingh

Plus one to the darker shade and I would turn off DRLs (during day time).
DRLs would turn on automatically when using headlights at night, and that's still OK as it does not spoil car looks that much at night.

I have done the same in my XUV 700.
I think XUV 700 DRLs only look acceptable or OK in white colour car only.

DRL = Daytime Running Lights, that improve your visibility in day. Why would you want them off during the day?!

[MaanSingh]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

DRL = Daytime Running Lights, that improve your visibility in day. Why would you want them off during the day?!

I think they are more helpful in increasing visibility of a narrow vehicle like a two wheeler, not that that much for a wide car like XUV 700.

Two wheelers don't even have an option of turning off DRLs (and rightly so),
but for cars, and more so for wide cars - it's more of a cosmetic thing IMHO (and hence option to turn them off in settings from manufacturer itself)

Similarly, car seat belt reminders don't have option to turn off (from OEM settings) as they have a very valid purpose.

I still like your point about increasing visibility though, even if it increases it by a slight margin.
And I agree they will be super helpful in conditions like fog, rain etc.

Some designs of DRLs look hideous or too bling (its the same reason someone would choose a good looking car as compared to the safest available car)

[Bit]

Originally Posted by UltraViolence

This is some next level goof-up

So apparently, All the automatic variants from the first production lot had the "TGDi Automatic" badging on the cars, even the lower variants from the MX series with TCMPFi engines.

Looks like M&M took their "segment shakers" strategy quite literally

Source: https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=7euZwD45Hhc

...And we rely on their "EXTENSIVE testing" before launch!

[ashishk29]

Originally Posted by Venks_144

After a lot of research and lot of test drives in understanding the requirement shortlisted Sonet D AT HTX. Had read a lot of safety related comments from some folks but after a lot of understanding how safety is to be defined for us the sonet made a lot of sense. We felt that GNCAP ratings are heavily misunderstood since we don't get into the complete know how's and limitations of these controlled tests and end up calling most of the cars that don't get 5 stars as tin can and so on.

GNCAP ratings and the methodology are quite transparent for all to see.

They have a PDF detailing what testing they do: https://www.globalncap.org/s/assessm...Adult-d87a.pdf

They have videos and photos of the results, and a result PDF describing their analysis.
What further explanation do you want?

These "controlled tests" are designed to mimic real world scenarios, based on the statistics collected about road accidents.
They aren't lab tests in that sense. They do actually fire a car at 64kmph straight at a barrier.
That is among the most common type of accident I can imagine.
If you think 64kmph is too low, again, that is a very baseline speed on most roads.
This does not mean that a 5 star car is going to suddenly become a tin can above 64kmph.
It takes a lot of design engineering to make sure that even at 64kmph the occupants suffer a very light impact.

However, cars that can't even manage to do that in a lab tests, are 100% a tin can. No two ways about it.

The whole point of GNCAP is to see if the car is designed in such a way, and with such materials, that it will dissipate the energy of the impact without transferring it to the occupants. If a car is made with poor materials, and is light weight (And not made of carbon fibre/titanium), it is definitely going to transfer impact to the occupants.

Also the core methodology is the same even for Euro NCAP, Australia NCAP, South American NCAP, and so on. So it is a tried and tested benchmark. Not some random theoretical test someone has cooked up.

Next up, we have MoRTH report on road accidents: https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...022_30_Oct.pdf
This clearly outlines that being hit from the back, and head-on collisions are the most common types of road accidents in India.
Meaning, GNCAP tests do cover the most common scenarios.

Originally Posted by Venks_144

For example a 100 kmph Nexon with 5 stars may not be safe anymore in a certain scenario which the GNCAP variables don't allow it to be tested in. So it would be 0 star safety in that situation.

A 5 star rated car will definitely be safe even at 100kmph. Your assumption that the rating is worthless at that speeds is wrong.

There are multiple incidents highlighting these things.
https://www.cartoq.com/tata-nexon-sa...r-testimonial/
https://motoroctane.com/news/247858-...ocking-results
https://safecarsindia.com/unfortunat...-field-mishap/
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/what-i...-my-tata-nexon
Quote from the above team-bhp article: "Seconds later, a truck came and hit the backside of my car. We were not hurt as both of us were wearing seat belts and thanks to the build quality of the car, we felt nothing more than a bump but the backside of the car was damaged. Both the truck driver and the biker ran away from the spot."

https://www.reddit.com/r/CarsIndia/c...tata_nexon_at/

I'm picking Nexon because you mentioned Nexon. You can literally just Google any 5 star rated car + accident, and you'll see report upon report of how these cars have saved their occupants even in the most dire of conditions.

In fact, https://www.cartoq.com/mahindra-xuv7...s-on-it-video/
This is a testament to just how a 5 star rated car can save its occupants wayyyy outside the tested scenarios. A loaded truck container fell on top of a 700, and the structure held up for long enough that all occupants could escape unhurt. Not just that. This car was later driven to the service center. It was fully functional after taking an entire container.

Originally Posted by Venks_144

Adding to that, most of us tend to keep objects on the dash and also in different places in the car which can become a projectile and puncture airbags and so on.

This, I agree with. This is why my dashboard is completely clear except for one anti-skid mat. Which I never actually use even.

Originally Posted by Venks_144

Similarly some of the car manufacturers have been promoting 5 star and more safety but they are not working on quality control that causes the accident in the first place. If brakes or gearbox get jammed or some electronics go bonkers and that causes an accident then what would anyone do with the 5 star label?

And Indian manufacturers are infamous for their quality control, and we all are witness to that. If Tatas and Mahindras have visible niggles from day 1 like infotainment, camera, software, and various electronics - and mind it, these are the things that we can SEE; who's to say that the components you CAN NOT see are performing at their optimal?

Quality control issues can happen with any manufacturer. No manufacturer has been free of blame. Why are you singling out "Indian manufacturers"? Step outside of the realm of shorts and reels, and you'll see a different picture.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-iqs
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-iqs

JD Power. An independent surveyor. They have run surveys on initial quality, i.e. complaints/failures in the first 6 months of ownership.
Their analysis? "More than one-third (35%) of the problems cited are in the categories of audio/communication/entertainment/ navigation and features/controls/displays." Meaning most issues these days are cosmetic.
Apart from this, Tata Tiago, Tigor, and Punch have shown up here in both years. Meaning, they had among the least amount of issues.

Also talking about failures,

What if a Taigun DSG seized at 120kmph? Those DSGs are notorious for failing!

What if your i20 starts to free wheel? https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-response.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!)

If it is a given that all manufacturers are prone to quality issues, isn't it a safer bet to use a car that is built safer?

Originally Posted by Bit

Absolutely agree. The car can be 5 stars NCAP ratings all the way but what's the point if MY car wasn't checked thoroughly for quality control? The car might have very quick airbags and re-inforced steel etc but what my during a crash MY airbags do not open (as had happened a few months back with a Scorpio which is a 5 star rated car)?

First off, the base chassis and panels of each and every vehicle are welded/assembled by robots. So they are exactly the same with some deviation in 99% of the cases. Chassis and panels is what mainly contributes to the 5 stars, and there is not quality check for that.
What are they supposed to do, crash test every manufactured chassis? And this applies to all manufacturers. Not just "Indian manufacturers".

About the airbag "incident", this has happened to literally every vehicle you can imagine.
Feel free to go through: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...eploy-why.html (Frontal Crash - Airbags didn't deploy. Why?)

At the end of the day, it's an electronic component, manufactured by a third party.

Have you seen the number of recalls that have happened over airbags? I have! Here are some:

https://www.hondacarindia.com/press-...ators-in-india
https://www.volkswagen.co.in/en/owne...-campaign.html
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/skoda-...takata-airbags
https://www.landrover.in/ownership/a...all/index.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2023-01-18/

This is among the most common issue, and lies outside of the purview of the manufacturer.
Again, you CANNOT QC assembled airbags. Airbags are a one and done mechanism. So manufacturer has no choice but to rely on the third party vendors certifying their airbags.

I hope this broadens your view on the whole situation.

Sorry for the HUMONGOUS rant, but I am extremely pedantic about GNCAP and build quality being taken lightly.

[AProf]

Originally Posted by ashishk29

GNCAP ratings and the methodology are quite transparent for all to see.

They have a PDF detailing what testing they do: https://www.globalncap.org/s/assessm...Adult-d87a.pdf

They have videos and photos of the results, and a result PDF describing their analysis.
What further explanation do you want?

...

I hope this broadens your view on the whole situation.

Sorry for the HUMONGOUS rant, but I am extremely pedantic about GNCAP and build quality being taken lightly.

You have put a lot of time and effort in writing this post. You certainly deserve another 800+ "Thanks" for this post!

This post deserves to be taken out of this "Review" thread and moved to any other "Educational" or "Spreading Awareness" thread IMO.

Thanks, I will read every link you posted here!

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Mrjomi

We did TD on AX5L and load sensors were there for all the 5 seats for seat-belt warning

That is almost too good to be true: can you confirm that it is not illuminating the lamp for unbelted seats even if they are empty, and beeping only if a belt is fastened and then undone (too conservative)? That is how a lot of cars (except Maruti and MG which are worse) are implementing it. The XUV3XO is a high-tech car alright but occupant detection in a B-segment car would be a (very welcome) first.

[srivatchsan]

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by ashishk29

GNCAP ratings and the methodology are quite transparent for all to see.

They have a PDF detailing what testing they do: https://www.globalncap.org/s/assessm...Adult-d87a.pdf

They have videos and photos of the results and a result PDF describing their analysis.
What further explanation do you want?

Thank you so much for this thread, and I learned more here today. Since quality and build were discussed here, I considered adding my recently delivered 3XO from a Quality perspective. This should also help others who take the delivery to check from all these aspects.

1. Since the doors, boot, etc., are super sturdy, there is an issue with locking or the sensor connection; whatever I do, my boot is never fully closed; upon carefully checking, the right side of the rear bonnet alignment is not correct, whereas the left is seamless, I will post pics for your reference.

2. Alexa never works, and I am unable to get to do the tasks even after following all the instructions to activate, etc

3. Apple car play is missing. Even after connecting with wired, it is still not showing. It may be a software update issues

However, I compiled all this and sent it as proof to the SA, and he said he would pick up the car and fix all the issues. I had asked for any PDI check results, which I can refer to, but I am still waiting to hear from them. So those who planned to take new delivery, please check in all these aspects.